Author Topic: Ten Strange Bibilical tales  (Read 3792 times)

MMC78

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Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« on: January 31, 2008, 01:44:30 PM »

http://listverse.com/bizarre/top-10-bizarre-biblical-tales/

Is there any doubt that this is the word of god?

columbusdude82

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2008, 03:17:28 PM »
 ;D


MCWAY

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2008, 03:52:56 PM »
http://listverse.com/bizarre/top-10-bizarre-biblical-tales/

Is there any doubt that this is the word of god?


This is yet another classic case of Biblical skeptics being all in the Kool-Aid but not knowing the flavor. I’ll start with 10 and 8 (gotta save some for Loco!!!!   8) ).


#10

I think I covered the Elisha story sometime ago. Again, one must ask why a bunch of “children” are going to the outskirts of a city, just to pick on one man for having no hair.

The short answer is that this has nothing to do with Elisha’s lack of follicles. Notice that they chant “Go up, you bald head!!!” In other words, they who Elisha is; more importantly, they know who his mentor is and what happened to him. Pllus, in ancient times, people sometimes shaved their heads when in mourning, which may have been Elisha's state of mind at the time.

If I were to take a wild guess, these “children” were apprentices of the priests of Baal, who had a little showdown with Elisha’s predecessor, with less-than-stellar results. And, they want some revenge. Hey, if you were outnumbered at least 42 to 1, you'd want two she-bears on your side, too!!!  ;D


#8

As for the Onan issue, this has nothing to do with masturbation or birth control. It’s about what I call the Redeemer Clause, as it relates to ancient marriage. Simply put, if a married man died and left his wife without children, a unmarried male member of his family (usually a brother) was found to marry the widow and produce a child, who would be deemed as that of the deceased. This preserved the family name. It’s kind of like an old-school life insurance policy.

With Er dead, Judah tells Onan to fulfill his duty to his brother and his widow, Tamar, WHICH ONAN AGREES TO DO. He could have opted not to do so (though such would be frowned upon in ancient society). More importantly, Onan knows that, if he signs up for this, he is EXPECTED to produce offspring. He “spills his seed on the ground” because a firstborn son won’t be seen as his, but that of Er. Also keep in mind that, back then, women often cherished their sons to soothe the pain of a lost husband.

In other words, Onan kept getting the booty from Tamar but he INTENTIONALLY didn’t give Tamar any children. One could argue that such is a form of abuse.

Then, there are the financial reprecussions: Onan was in charge of Er’s estate………UNTIL a son was born and that son turned 20 (or a daughter if no sons were born). Upon that occurrence, the son gets Er’s estate. That’s potential bad news for Onan. If his father, Judah,dies, before that son turns 20, Judah’s estate would have gone to Onan’s younger brother, leaving Onan with zip, inheritance-wise.

Back in those days, promising to give a woman children, repeating having sex with her, but intentionally denying her offspring was a vile thing to do to a woman, emotionally. Apparently, the Lord didn't think so, either. Thus, we have one dead Onan.

To top it all off, whoever wrote this list didn't get his story straight here. Tamar ends up with children after all. But, here's where it gets weird. Judah tells Tamar to return to her father's home, until his last son turns 20, at which time Judah will give him to her as her hubby. However, Judah reneges, fearing that his last boy will end up dead, as did the other two. Tamar gets desperate and dresses as a prostitute, and guess who her first customer is......JUDAH. She keeps his staff and cloak as promise of future payment. Word gets out that Tamar is pregnant via whoring around. Judah demands that she be executed. But, before she's about to be killed, she produces the goods, proving that JUDAH is the one that knocked her up. Judah dropped the charges, claming that Tamar was more righteous than he was, as she only did this, because Judah broke his word to his daughter-in-law.


columbusdude82

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2008, 06:53:01 PM »
Yes, the creator of the universe works by sending she-bears to kill kids who make fun of bald dudes. Makes perfect sense ::)

MMC78

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2008, 07:45:53 PM »
words...

Or we could apply Occam's razor and conclude that it's all made up.

You'd do much better at arguing the meaning of these passages with a knowledge of Hebrew and a proper Jewish education.  But Christians don't usually read the bible anyway.

MCWAY

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2008, 09:58:59 AM »
Yes, the creator of the universe works by sending she-bears to kill kids who make fun of bald dudes. Makes perfect sense ::)

Again, why do (at least) 42 "kids" leave the outskirts of a city, just to confront a guy with no hair?

I bet if 42 members of the Crips or Bloods started harassing you, having two she-bears fend them off would make "perfect sense" to you.

MCWAY

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2008, 10:03:12 AM »
Or we could apply Occam's razor and conclude that it's all made up.

You'd do much better at arguing the meaning of these passages with a knowledge of Hebrew and a proper Jewish education.  But Christians don't usually read the bible anyway.

Well, I do. So, what was it about the explantions for 10 and 8, that were unclear to you?

columbusdude82

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2008, 10:16:14 AM »
Again, why do (at least) 42 "kids" leave the outskirts of a city, just to confront a guy with no hair?

I bet if 42 members of the Crips or Bloods started harassing you, having two she-bears fend them off would make "perfect sense" to you.

No it wouldn't. I don't believe in animals being directed by invisible spirits, gods or fairies... and I think it is pretty lame that the supposed creator of the atom, of nuclear fusion, of the DNA and hemoglobin molecules, of the stars and planets can't find more exalted ways to work than sending she-bears from the woods to kill people on the outskirt of a city, especially for so trivial an offense...

I mean, he would have to be at least as pissed with me for all the things I've been saying about him on and off of here, yet there are no she-bears in sight coming to rip me limb from limb yet ::)

loco

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2008, 11:29:59 AM »
http://listverse.com/bizarre/top-10-bizarre-biblical-tales/

Is there any doubt that this is the word of god?


Let me make a point here about the link above:

There is currently an e-mail circulating the Internet saying that Obama is an evil Muslim who wants to take over the US if elected president.  The e-mail itself includes a link to snopes.com and claims:

"We checked this out on "snopes.com". It is factual. Check for yourself./*Who is Barack Obama?"

But if you follow the link and check it out for yourself, snopes.com actually says the opposite, that the claims in this e-mail are false.

So why would the person who originated this email include a link to snope.com for the readers?  Because that person is counting on the readers NOT to follow the link and check for themselves.

Likewise, with these "Ten Strange Biblical Tales", the writer provides the Bible verses and links to the Bible verses, but if you go check for yourself, you'll see that this person has added to the stories to make them stranger than they really are, plus even lies about some of the stories.  For example, saying that Jesus gets angry at a fig tree.  The Gospels record Jesus getting angry only one time, and this wasn't it.  Another example is when he says that when the lefty Israelite kills the evil king, the evil king craps all over himself.  That's not in the Biblical story either.  He made that up.

This person is counting on the readers NOT to open the Bible and check for themselves.

Why didn't he just quote the Bible and leave the conclusions up to the reader?

Anyway, this guy can't be taken seriously.  His version of the stories are funny, but not accurate.

columbusdude82

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2008, 11:47:55 AM »
You make a correct point, loco. However, I am talking about the she-bears story. I checked that one in the Bible :)

loco

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2008, 11:51:43 AM »
You make a correct point, loco. However, I am talking about the she-bears story. I checked that one in the Bible :)

Thanks columbusdude82!  I wasn't talking about your post in particular or about that particular story, but about the entire article in general.

MCWAY already covered the she-bears in this and in another, longer thread.

Deedee

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2008, 11:52:19 AM »
The stories are accurately recounted here, for those using English language versions of King James, although I would assume that knowledge of Hebrew would be helpful for anyone seeking to understand the true meanings behind these stories.  

No. 5 has absolutely horrified and sickened me since I was a kid and first came across it. I could never figure out as a child why that would be included in a holy book.

loco

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2008, 11:55:45 AM »
The stories are accurately recounted here, for those using English language versions of King James, although I would assume that knowledge of Hebrew would be helpful for anyone seeking to understand the true meanings behind these stories.  

No. 5 has absolutely horrified and sickened me since I was a kid and first came across it. I could never figure out as a child why that would be included in a holy book.

Hello, Deedee!
So where does it say that "Jesus got angry" at a fig tree?  Where does it say that the evil king who was stabbed by a lefty crapped all over himself?

Deedee

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2008, 12:02:11 PM »
Hello, Deedee!
So where does it say that "Jesus got angry" at a fig tree?  Where does it say that the evil king who was stabbed by a lefty crapped all over himself?

Oh NO!  Are we arguing again?  :)

Deedee

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2008, 12:07:54 PM »
This unline version of King James will have to do.

http://www.online-literature.com/bible/Judges/

Judges 3:22  "and the dirt came out."  That means shit, loco.  His intestines were punctured by the dagger and feces poured forth. Sounds kinda plain and matter of fact that this happened in the King James version. 

loco

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2008, 12:10:16 PM »
Oh NO!  Are we arguing again?  :)

Ya know I love you, Deedee!   ;D

No, not arguing, debating.  I said the guy lied or added to the stories, but you said that he accurately recounted the stories.  So you are debating my point.

I do agree with you that No.5 is a bizarre story for our times, and I also agree that knowledge of Hebrew would be helpful to understand the true meanings behind some of these stories.  

But just because something is recorded in the Bible does not necessarily mean that God approved of it.  That's one thing that confirms my belief in the Bible, that it records both, Israel's good deeds and victories, as well as Israel's most horrible sins and embarrassing defeats.  So it's not just "history written by the victors"

OzmO

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2008, 12:16:08 PM »
Ya know I love you, Deedee!   ;D

No, not arguing, debating.  I said the guy lied or added to the stories, but you said that he accurately recounted the stories.  So you are debating my point.

I do agree with you that No.5 is a bizarre story for our times, and I also agree that knowledge of Hebrew would be helpful to understand the true meanings behind some of these stories. 

But just because something is recorded in the Bible does not necessarily mean that God approved of it.  That's one thing that confirms my belief in the Bible, that it records both, Israel's good deeds and victories, as well as Israel's most horribles sins and embarrassing defeats.  So it's not just "history written by the victors"

"History written by the victors"  does not mean all the "bad" things done by the victors are excluded.  It means you don't get all in the information and the case for their actions are often laid out like 1 side of a story.

Otherwise, Vietnam and Japanese internment camps wouldn't be in our history books.


columbusdude82

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2008, 12:16:33 PM »
Ya know I love you, Deedee!   ;D

No, not arguing, debating.  I said the guy lied or added to the stories, but you said that he accurately recounted the stories.  So you are debating my point.

I do agree with you that No.5 is a bizarre story for our times, and I also agree that knowledge of Hebrew would be helpful to understand the true meanings behind some of these stories. 

But just because something is recorded in the Bible does not necessarily mean that God approved of it.  That's one thing that confirms my belief in the Bible, that it records both, Israel's good deeds and victories, as well as Israel's most horribles sins and embarrassing defeats.  So it's not just "history written by the victors"

Tell that to the Midianites, Amalekites, etc, who are portrayed so nicely in the Bible ::)

loco

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2008, 12:16:58 PM »
This unline version of King James will have to do.

http://www.online-literature.com/bible/Judges/

Judges 3:22  "and the dirt came out."  That means shit, loco.  His intestines were punctured by the dagger and feces poured forth. Sounds kinda plain and matter of fact that this happened in the King James version. 

Very well, I stand corrected.  Many modern versions, both in English and in Spanish do not include that little bit "and the dirt came out."  But I just checked both King James and Reina-Valera 1960 and you are correct, and I was wrong.  Thanks, Deedee!

loco

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2008, 12:17:57 PM »
Tell that to the Midianites, Amalekites, etc, who are portrayed so nicely in the Bible ::)

Yeah, because they were such good, peaceful people that were willing to allow Israel to exist.

MCWAY

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2008, 12:18:37 PM »
No it wouldn't. I don't believe in animals being directed by invisible spirits, gods or fairies... and I think it is pretty lame that the supposed creator of the atom, of nuclear fusion, of the DNA and hemoglobin molecules, of the stars and planets can't find more exalted ways to work than sending she-bears from the woods to kill people on the outskirt of a city, especially for so trivial an offense...

I mean, he would have to be at least as pissed with me for all the things I've been saying about him on and off of here, yet there are no she-bears in sight coming to rip me limb from limb yet ::)

Exactly what makes the offense "trivial"? I seriously doubt that being angrily confronted by three-and-a-half dozen people (minimum) is something you would merely brush off, especially if their intent is to do you harm, as is the case with Elisha.

A horde of Baal-prophet apprentices vs. one apprentice of a prophet of God: If I'm Elisha, I'm not all that picky as to how the Lord bails me out (though, I may be partial to fire and brimstone  ;D ).

OzmO

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2008, 12:22:50 PM »
Yeah, because they were such good, peaceful people that were willing to allow Israel to exist.


The idea that an entire of nation of people's are wicked and evil is ridiculous.  That's history by the victors to justify their actions.

Deedee

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2008, 12:28:52 PM »
Ya know I love you, Deedee!   ;D

No, not arguing, debating.  I said the guy lied or added to the stories, but you said that he accurately recounted the stories.  So you are debating my point.

I do agree with you that No.5 is a bizarre story for our times, and I also agree that knowledge of Hebrew would be helpful to understand the true meanings behind some of these stories.  

But just because something is recorded in the Bible does not necessarily mean that God approved of it.  That's one thing that confirms my belief in the Bible, that it records both, Israel's good deeds and victories, as well as Israel's most horrible sins and embarrassing defeats.  So it's not just "history written by the victors"

I love you too.  :) I was kidding, anyway.  I know we're just debating.

I haven't examined them all, but some of them I remember from childhood, and they seem to be recounted accurately.

MCWAY

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2008, 12:44:36 PM »
The idea that an entire of nation of people's are wicked and evil is ridiculous.  That's history by the victors to justify their actions.

Technically, an entire nation would not be. Then again, the entire of the nation of Japan wasn't wicked either, nor did they all bomb Pearl Harbor.

OzmO

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Re: Ten Strange Bibilical tales
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2008, 12:58:40 PM »
Technically, an entire nation would not be. Then again, the entire of the nation of Japan wasn't wicked either, nor did they all bomb Pearl Harbor.



Your logic is flawed.  What happen at pearl doesn't make an entire nation evil. 

this is the kind warped brain washed thinking that leads to slamming planes into skyscrapers.