Author Topic: ronnie once again owns dorian  (Read 20455 times)

NeoSeminole

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5589
  • Ronnie > Dorian
Re: ronnie once again owns dorian
« Reply #150 on: February 17, 2008, 08:28:36 PM »
And yet you ignore the major advantages Yates has, namely, superior hardness and definition? These two things are far more important than acne, which is something that is not even related to skeletal muscles. Since they have equivalent development, then the superior conditioning of Yates' back wins it for him.

you're missing the point. I could just as easily accuse you of ignoring Ronnie's advantages such as better taper, symmetry, and lower back detail. Who is to say that Dorian's strengths are better? Furthermore, the purpose of conditioning is to enhance the appearance of the muscles. Dorian's back may look "harder" but lacks the fullness of Ronnie's back. Again, who is to say which is better? Where does it state in the IFBB criteria that density trumps muscular bulk? Don't be so foolish as to proclaim Dorian's strengths greater when he and Ronnie are so evenly matched. In the case of a tie, we must pick at straws to decide a winner. The fact of the matter is that Ronnie's back is just as good as Dorian's and doesn't have bance or folds of skin.

Quote
Hmmm...no. This is not a beauty pageant. This is not the Ms.America contest trying to find the prettiest girl, but deciding who has the best physique between the two.

hmmm... yes. Bodybuilding is a visual sport and the skin is the most visible part of the body. The IFBB criteria states that skin blemishes may affect a competitor's placement.

pumpster

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 18890
  • If you're reading this you have too much free time
Re: ronnie once again owns dorian
« Reply #151 on: February 17, 2008, 08:32:09 PM »
  as everyone can see they are roughly the same width.


hahahahahahaahaha ya and their arms are about the same size too.

CigaretteMan

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 678
  • Yum, yum, give me some!
Re: ronnie once again owns dorian
« Reply #152 on: February 17, 2008, 08:55:47 PM »
you're missing the point. I could just as easily accuse you of ignoring Ronnie's advantages such as better taper, symmetry, and lower back detail.

  Yes, Ronnie does have better taper, but that is not included when we're talking exclusively about back - it is taken into account in the total package in the back mandatories and in the symmetry round from the back, but the back as a bodypart must be judged separately for it's own merits. As for symmetry, Ronnie doesen't have better symmetry than Dorian. I don't see how Ronnie's lats are more proportionally developed in relation to each other than Yates'. And lower back detail? Isn't Dorian regarded as the absolute best of all times in that area?

Quote
  Who is to say that Dorian's strengths are better?

  I think that Dorian's advantages are more relevant according to traditional criteria than Ronnie's in this case. Conditioning is more relavant than good skin.

Quote
  Furthermore, the purpose of conditioning is to enhance the appearance of the muscles. Dorian's back may look "harder" but lacks the fullness of Ronnie's back. Again, who is to say which is better?

  I'm not sure that Ronnie's back is fuller. According to all reviews I've read of Mr.Olympias, Dorian's back was always complimented for it's fullness. However, we do know for a fact that Dorian's back did look harder than Ronnie's.

Quote
  Where does it state in the IFBB criteria that density trumps muscular bulk?

  Ronnie's back does not have superior muscular bulk in the particular version you've used. If you're talking Ronnie in his 2003 incarnation, then that's a different story.

Quote
  Don't be so foolish as to proclaim Dorian's strengths greater when he and Ronnie are so evenly matched. In the case of a tie, we must pick at straws to decide a winner. The fact of the matter is that Ronnie's back is just as good as Dorian's and doesn't have bance or folds of skin.

  But Dorian has the advantage of conditioning, which is a much more relevant advantage according to the criteria than having superior skin. We don't even need to pick at straws, because conditioning is not a straw, but one of the major things that bodybuilding judges look for. ;)

Quote
hmmm... yes. Bodybuilding is a visual sport and the skin is the most visible part of the body.

  Correction: bodybuilding is a visual sport that tries to access the development, symmetry and definition of the competitor's skeltal muscles.

Quote
  The IFBB criteria states that skin blemishes may affect a competitor's placement.

  Right, then why wasn't Yates marked down at the 1993 Olympia for it? From what I've read, all the 13 judges gave him perfect scores in both the symmetry and muscularity rounds. No where was he marked down for his acne - maybe because, like me, the judges considered his super-conditioning as far more relevant than his bad skin. And I must emphasize that his acne is only apparent in some areas of the back and a little in his chest. The rest of his body was clear of it.

CigaretteMan

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 678
  • Yum, yum, give me some!
Re: ronnie once again owns dorian
« Reply #153 on: February 17, 2008, 09:00:11 PM »

hahahahahahaahaha ya and their arms are about the same size too.

  The picture of Dorian in this comparison you've posted is from 1994, not 1993, and he is not flexing his lats there. Compare the lats spreads of Ronnie 1999 to Dorian's at the 1994 Olympia and you'll see they are equivalent in width.

NeoSeminole

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5589
  • Ronnie > Dorian
Re: ronnie once again owns dorian
« Reply #154 on: February 17, 2008, 09:17:38 PM »
Yes, Ronnie does have better taper, but that is not included when we're talking exclusively about back - it is taken into account in the total package in the back mandatories and in the symmetry round from the back, but the back as a bodypart must be judged separately for it's own merits.

the posterior area from the neck down to the hips is considered the back.

Quote
As for symmetry, Ronnie doesen't have better symmetry than Dorian. I don't see how Ronnie's lats are more proportionally developed in relation to each other than Yates'. And lower back detail? Isn't Dorian regarded as the absolute best of all times in that area?

Ronnie's back has better left-right correspondence and more lower back thickness that's proportional to his phenomenal lats. Dorian's traps don't line up and it looks like he's missing his erector spinae in some poses.







Quote
I'm not sure that Ronnie's back is fuller. Accoding to all reviews I've read of Mr.Olympia, Dorian's back was always complimented for it's fullness. However, we do know for a fact that Dorian's back did look harder.

::)









Quote
Right, then why wasn't Yates marked down at the 1993 Olympia for it? From what I've read, all the 13 judges gave him perfect scores in both the symmetry and muscularity rounds. No where was he marked down for his acne - maybe because, like me, the judges considered his super-conditioning as far more relevant than his bad skin. And I must emphasize that his acne is only apparent in some areas of the back and a little in his chest. The rest of his body was clear of it.

Dorian still won b/c the rest of his physique overwhelmed his competitors. Your attempt to downplay Dorian's bacne is akin to me saying "calves don't matter in a bodybuilding contest b/c Ronnie still won the Mr. Olympia 8 times."

Hulkster

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22968
  • ND ran away from me
Re: ronnie once again owns dorian
« Reply #155 on: February 18, 2008, 10:35:23 AM »
  Dorian's back is as wide, thicker, harder and just as detailed. So how does Coleman win this ???

simple.

because their lats are equal in width but Ronnie has a tiny waist compared to dorian- giving a huge taper advantage to Ronnie..

because while dorian displays rolls of loose skin in the lower back, Ronnie displays his striated christmas tree in that pose.


hope this helps with clearing up the delusion.. 8)
Flower Boy Ran Away