Cycle without Test?

[Tapeworm]

This thread got me wondering:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=200590.0


Also, when I was on 250/wk sustanon (a small amount, I know, but still supraphysiological), I wasn't suddenly wildly horny so I'm doubting the theory that testosterone=horny.  I still wanted sex but I took forever to get off.  I was still sex driven but just never had that need-to-bust-a-nut feeling.  I was having regular sex which had something to do with it, but I could tell there was a drop in "ball pressure" since testicular testosterone production, and therefore sperm production, was down.

The PCT HCG was a different story.  Ball pressure returned big time and I was hornier during PCT than I was on the sustanon (1500mg hcg eod).

Does anyone cycle AAS without testosterone but with HCG to maintain testicular health and libido?  Why is test seen as the base if other AAS are effective muscle builders without the aromatizing sides?  Forgive the noob q.

[IFBBwannaB]

This thread got me wondering:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=200590.0


Also, when I was on 250/wk sustanon (a small amount, I know, but still supraphysiological), I wasn't suddenly wildly horny so I'm doubting the theory that testosterone=horny.  I still wanted sex but I took forever to get off.  I was still sex driven but just never had that need-to-bust-a-nut feeling.  I was having regular sex which had something to do with it, but I could tell there was a drop in "ball pressure" since testicular testosterone production, and therefore sperm production, was down.

The PCT HCG was a different story.  Ball pressure returned big time and I was hornier during PCT than I was on the sustanon (1500mg hcg eod).

Does anyone cycle AAS without testosterone but with HCG to maintain testicular health and libido?  Why is test seen as the base if other AAS are effective muscle builders without the aromatizing sides?  Forgive the noob q.

1.250mg is very litle,I think thats the dosage they give for HRT.

2.Since you were on Test you suppressed you LH and FSH ,and they have an even bigger factor on horniness than Test.Thus if you suppress them you need larger dosages of Test to compastate.

3.In order to get anywhere near the levels of the Test you need for a cycle by using HCG only you will desensitize your entire balls.Causing a much more adverse effect than what you look for.

Solution:

500mg test + 300IU HCG 2-3 times per week.

[Tapeworm]

I'm not suggesting using HCG for anabolic benefit, only to maintain testicular health while on cycle with other AAS.  500mg e3d.  The thread I linked suggests that guys in the 70s frowned on testosterone because of it's sides and opted for deca, equi, dbol, primo, stanozolol, etc.

It also made mention of the fact that test requires AE, as we well know, and that the AE can further complicate things (cholesterol levels, E rebound, etc).  So why not choose a non-aromatizing steroid for muscle building instead of testosterone?  I'm sure there's a good reason since most guys choose test as their base.

Do all AAS have their own unfortunate sides, like prolactin gyno from deca?  Or is HPTA shutdown the major concern and could it be controlled with HCG?


Edit: Before anyone asks, the sustanon I had was the real McCoy. Doc prescribed Dutch Organon, weight and strength gains were significant.

[delta9mda]

you are not using mg's you are using of the hcg, it is international units (iu's).

[Tapeworm]

Oh yeah...      It's been 4 or 5 months.  I stand corrected.  The Pregnyl was 5000iu/amp which I divided into 3 shots during PCT.  It was a pita.   

Any view on the 70s approach?  After the bloat I had on only 250mg of T (w/o any anti E), I don't think I'd like to go any higher.  The bloat was cool 'n all  , but if I cycle again I'd much rather make clean lean gains and not have to worry about bitch tits.

[Tapeworm]

Bumping my own thread.

Anyone have any views on cycling without test?  For example: deca 300mg/wk, dbol 30mg/day, hcg 500iu e3d.

If its idiotic, just say so.  Only curious.

[Luv2Hurt]

I do agree with what you said in your first post "more test does not = more horny."

To be honest its all very complicated and I'm not sure anyone has it all figured out.  I feel there is no way with PCT or HCG or any of those manipulation methods that you will be able to control what you want with any degree of certainty.  The human body is WAY to complex to assume you can precisely and completely control it when you introduce such a huge change.  You will do one thing to change this and your body will do another bunch or things to compensate.

So take your juice, be carefull by staying at relatively small doses (HRT typically is 100mg test a week) and do what you think is right.  Cause nobody on here or anywhere doctors included can give you assurances when you start taking large doses of gear. 

You do the best you can, blow up and hope for the best when you come down.

[Tapeworm]

Thanks for the reply L2H.  I don't see me ever taking LARGE doses, at least not by bodybuilding standards, but I'd like to add another compound to the next cycle.

The 250sus/wk gave me 17 lbs in 8 weeks last time, obviously a lot of it was water.  I wasn't shy with the food, so that was certainly a factor, but people started commenting... lol.  I don't want to deal with funny looks at work, so I'm curious about cycling for muscle growth without so much bloat.  I can't even imagine the balloon effect on a gram+/wk.

I don't plan to "go off the reservation" and cycle without test, but I was curious to hear the views of experienced guys.  Maybe I'll get the doc to throw some anitE my way next time.

[Luv2Hurt]

Thanks for the reply L2H.  I don't see me ever taking LARGE doses, at least not by bodybuilding standards, but I'd like to add another compound to the next cycle.

The 250sus/wk gave me 17 lbs in 8 weeks last time, obviously a lot of it was water.  I wasn't shy with the food, so that was certainly a factor, but people started commenting... lol.  I don't want to deal with funny looks at work, so I'm curious about cycling for muscle growth without so much bloat.  I can't even imagine the balloon effect on a gram+/wk.

I don't plan to "go off the reservation" and cycle without test, but I was curious to hear the views of experienced guys.  Maybe I'll get the doc to throw some anitE my way next time.

Well if you are ballooning up and getting bloated look to your diet to control that.

[Tapeworm]

Well if you are ballooning up and getting bloated look to your diet to control that.

I kept to a 40c/30p/30f ratio for my meals and threw in 2 extra shakes per day (60g).  I didn't want to sabotage my cycle by undereating since my major problem is simply mass, but I might reduce the carbs next time around.

The weight gain really accelerated in the middle of week 3 (if I remember right).  That's what made me suspect aromatization and E-water (no nipple issues however).

[dzulboy]

I'm not suggesting using HCG for anabolic benefit, only to maintain testicular health while on cycle with other AAS.  500mg e3d.  The thread I linked suggests that guys in the 70s frowned on testosterone because of it's sides and opted for deca, equi, dbol, primo, stanozolol, etc.

It also made mention of the fact that test requires AE, as we well know, and that the AE can further complicate things (cholesterol levels, E rebound, etc).  So why not choose a non-aromatizing steroid for muscle building instead of testosterone?  I'm sure there's a good reason since most guys choose test as their base.

Do all AAS have their own unfortunate sides, like prolactin gyno from deca?  Or is HPTA shutdown the major concern and could it be controlled with HCG?


Edit: Before anyone asks, the sustanon I had was the real McCoy. Doc prescribed Dutch Organon, weight and strength gains were significant.

iu's not mg's and it's every other day or everyday

[theworm]

Bumping my own thread.

Anyone have any views on cycling without test?  For example: deca 300mg/wk, dbol 30mg/day, hcg 500iu e3d.

If its idiotic, just say so.  Only curious.

well, dan duchaine (one of the biggest gurus of all time) was always quoted as saying "if you cannot grow on dbol and deca, then nothing else would work"  so I think the dbol deca route can be a good one.  do not believe you always need test (maybe if you are a pro or something..)

[Overload]

i think it's a very individual thing...one of my first cycles was deca/dbol and i didn't have a problem with deca dick. then about 3 years later i was running sust/deca/dbol and my sust amps turned out to be fakes. my dick went into hibernation until a got some real test. let me tell you, it is VERY hard to explain to a horny girlfriend how your dick went from rock solid 24/7 to not working AT ALL...

use caution, there is a reason why they say test is a must with deca...

just my .02