Ron Paul beats Obama with troop donations CNN

[Bindare_Dundat]

Ron Paul= $210.000

Obama=$90.000

[War-Horse]

Secretly the soldiers want to come home.  They cant admit it for morale reasons.   This is proof that staying over there is a "Dog and Pony show"

[Bindare_Dundat]

Secretly the soldiers want to come home.  They cant admit it for morale reasons.   This is proof that staying over there is a "Dog and Pony show"

Absolutely right.

Actions speak louder than words and this action by troops tells you everythingthey had enough, they do want to come home.

[Bindare_Dundat]

The news piece was 2 months too late.

How convienant tht CNN plays it now.

You think it would have made a good impresion on the American people and got him some votes? 

[headhuntersix]

Secretly the soldiers want to come home.  They cant admit it for morale reasons.   This is proof that staying over there is a "Dog and Pony show"

Proof.....nobody wants to leave in defeat either.

[Bindare_Dundat]

They want go come home, now.

[Tre]

Pro-war = anti-family values

We need to clearly define our mission, devise a plan, and *then* plan our exit only after the primary goals have been achieved. 

[240 is Back]

being pro-war means a few things.

You want to 'win'... guess what, we already won!

We took out saddam, removed all risk of WMD (if it was even ever there), installed a new govt, let them hold elections, built bases, set up an oil infrastructure involving US firms, and have whittled the terrorist threat down to a few thousand crimnials.

THey don't have a terrorism problem in iraq, they have a gang problem.  Pull out the US forces and US media, and let the Iraqi police use a little hard knocks and put down the gang problem.

We won the war.  What we're doing now is making the war companies a little bit richer before Bush scales back the war in October, to make it a non-issue for the election and make it look like McCain was right all along.  (We'll ignore the fact it was an illegal war and wave the pompoms that we won-- even if the win is akin to it taking 45 minutes for the schoolyard bully to finlly take the handicapped kids' lunch money)

[Bindare_Dundat]

being pro-war means a few things.

You want to 'win'... guess what, we already won!

We took out saddam, removed all risk of WMD (if it was even ever there), installed a new govt, let them hold elections, built bases, set up an oil infrastructure involving US firms, and have whittled the terrorist threat down to a few thousand crimnials.

THey don't have a terrorism problem in iraq, they have a gang problem.  Pull out the US forces and US media, and let the Iraqi police use a little hard knocks and put down the gang problem.

We won the war.  What we're doing now is making the war companies a little bit richer before Bush scales back the war in October, to make it a non-issue for the election and make it look like McCain was right all along.  (We'll ignore the fact it was an illegal war and wave the pompoms that we won-- even if the win is akin to it taking 45 minutes for the schoolyard bully to finlly take the handicapped kids' lunch money)

The average Jow Blow on the Iraqi street hates American presence over there. That's a fact. As long as America is there, those people will help Al queda through intelligence and overall moral support, they don't have to strap a bomb on themselves to be a threat.

I don't think some Americans realize how much they are hated around the world. It amazes even me. Take the balkans for example, they blame America for whats happening over there because they feel America wanted certain countries to break up so they can get their hands in the pie and take away from the Soviets older dominated countries. The collapse of those balkan countries caused wars and after a while of killing each other the hate gets directed at the US.

[240 is Back]

The average Jow Blow on the Iraqi street hates American presence over there. That's a fact. As long as America is there, those people will help Al queda through intelligence and overall moral support, they don't have to strap a bomb on themselves to be a threat.

I don't think some Americans realize how much they are hated around the world. It amazes even me. Take the balkans for example, they blame America for whats happening over there because they feel America wanted certain countries to break up so they can get their hands in the pie and take away from the Soviets older dominated countries. The collapse of those balkan countries caused wars and after a while of killing each other the hate gets directed at the US.

i agree we're hated.  I don't have the balls nor the gall to do the things we've done around the world in the last 8 years, or 80 years.

But, some men are built for it, and they do it, and it's why we're the only superpower.  It's hard for me to criticize what we do, because without it, we'd be struggling to be the 10th place country in the world.  Remember, we lack competitive advantages in many major areas, including service and mnfg.  other countries work their people harder for less, and they outperform us in schools.  We're #1, despite not doing a lot of things better.  But, we twist arms and kick asses better. 

I know it's morally wrong, but it's how every nation in the world not called Switzerland operates.  They do what is best for their ppl in the UTILITARIAN sense.  I used to hate on it, but when Stark brought it to my attention that if we didn't do it, someone would be doing it to us in 10 or 20 years, I grew up and accepted the fact I'm okay with it, because I don't want to live in squalor in line with our produciton.

[Bindare_Dundat]

i agree we're hated.  I don't have the balls nor the gall to do the things we've done around the world in the last 8 years, or 80 years.

But, some men are built for it, and they do it, and it's why we're the only superpower.  It's hard for me to criticize what we do, because without it, we'd be struggling to be the 10th place country in the world.  Remember, we lack competitive advantages in many major areas, including service and mnfg.  other countries work their people harder for less, and they outperform us in schools.  We're #1, despite not doing a lot of things better.  But, we twist arms and kick asses better. 

I know it's morally wrong, but it's how every nation in the world not called Switzerland operates.  They do what is best for their ppl in the UTILITARIAN sense.  I used to hate on it, but when Stark brought it to my attention that if we didn't do it, someone would be doing it to us in 10 or 20 years, I grew up and accepted the fact I'm okay with it, because I don't want to live in squalor in line with our produciton.

How long so you think Americans can go this route?

In nature there is a balance, I don't see a balance in the what you're suggesting.

Eventually something has to give, no?

[Deicide]

i agree we're hated.  I don't have the balls nor the gall to do the things we've done around the world in the last 8 years, or 80 years.

But, some men are built for it, and they do it, and it's why we're the only superpower.  It's hard for me to criticize what we do, because without it, we'd be struggling to be the 10th place country in the world.  Remember, we lack competitive advantages in many major areas, including service and mnfg.  other countries work their people harder for less, and they outperform us in schools.  We're #1, despite not doing a lot of things better.  But, we twist arms and kick asses better. 

I know it's morally wrong, but it's how every nation in the world not called Switzerland operates.  They do what is best for their ppl in the UTILITARIAN sense.  I used to hate on it, but when Stark brought it to my attention that if we didn't do it, someone would be doing it to us in 10 or 20 years, I grew up and accepted the fact I'm okay with it, because I don't want to live in squalor in line with our produciton.

It's getting 240, this line of yours. I think you have been hanging out in your trailer too long.

Norwegian and Danes are living in squalor because they don't bully other countries and threaten them (assuming they could)?

Your mind is twisted 240. You need to get out of that trailer and see the world and I don't mean take a vacation for a week.

[Bindare_Dundat]

Norwegian and Danes are living in squalor because they don't bully other countries and threaten them (assuming they could)?

There's not a McDonalds on every corner, so yes it is squalor. 

[Deicide]

How long so you think Americans can go this route?

In nature there is a balance, I don't see a balance in the what you're suggesting.

Eventually something has to give, no?

Bindare, you didn't know?

240's plan is to plunder, brutalise, exploit, murder and kill for as much loot as possible to keep the country afloat for as long as possible so HE doesn't have to want for anything. Just until he dies; after that he could give a flying fuck what happens and I can get the quotes if necessary....

Right 240?

[Bindare_Dundat]

Bindare, you didn't know?

240's plan is to plunder, brutalise, exploit, murder and kill for as much loot as possible to keep the country afloat for as long as possible so HE doesn't have to want for anything. Just until he dies; after that he could give a flying fuck what happens and I can get the quotes if necessary....

Right 240?

I disagree with his view too, but at least he's honest about it, I guess. I don't have to listen to him say shit like,  " he, (Saddam) was building a nuclear bomb but even if there were no weapons there, we still had to get rid of Saddam, cause he was such a bad dictator to his own people.."      barf.

There's enough info out there to know what the truth is, I can;t believe people still believe that shit.

As far as peoples warped views on Europe go, it's hard to convince anyone that America isnt the best country in the world when they haven't even left their own backyards.

[Deicide]

I disagree with his view too, but at least he's honest about it, I guess. I don't have to listen to him say shit like,  " he, (Saddam) was building a nuclear bomb but even if there were no weapons there, we still had to get rid of Saddam, cause he was such a bad dictator to his own people.."      barf.

There's enough info out there to know what the truth is, I can;t believe people still believe that shit.

As far as peoples warped views on Europe go, it's hard to convince anyone that America isnt the best country in the world when they haven't even left their own backyards.

Yup...they hear higher taxes and no guns and suddenly it's hello on earth for them. They don't look at the stats for health, education, longevity, etc....

Just your typical American family enjoying an nice outing....

[headhuntersix]

The average Jow Blow on the Iraqi street hates American presence over there. That's a fact. As long as America is there, those people will help Al queda through intelligence and overall moral support, they don't have to strap a bomb on themselves to be a threat.

I don't think some Americans realize how much they are hated around the world. It amazes even me. Take the balkans for example, they blame America for whats happening over there because they feel America wanted certain countries to break up so they can get their hands in the pie and take away from the Soviets older dominated countries. The collapse of those balkan countries caused wars and after a while of killing each other the hate gets directed at the US.

Ur an idiot...have u been to the Balkans...talked to these people. Most are greatful that NATO helped stop the killing. I've been there....did u learn everything from the net. 

[Bindare_Dundat]

Ur an idiot...have u been to the Balkans...talked to these people. Most are greatful that NATO helped stop the killing. I've been there....did u learn everything from the net. 

I have been there  for a total of 3 years fuckface. My parents are from there. You think you know everything?

[headhuntersix]

Well I've finally managed to draw u out.....I don't pretend to know everything but I do know that folks their don't blame us. Europe dropped this ball and NATO had to come in and stop the killing. We do very little there except employ a ton of people. I'm glad I was able to figure out where ur from...now go relax.

[headhuntersix]

I spent 12 months in Bosnia and 5 months in Kosovo...I talked to alot of people. In my experience they were happy that the killing stopped. Its not an Iraq situation where there was an insurgency......they were going about there business and had very little to gain or loose from supporting NATO.

[Bindare_Dundat]

Well I've finally managed to draw u out.....I don't pretend to know everything but I do know that folks their don't blame us. Europe dropped this ball and NATO had to come in and stop the killing. We do very little there except employ a ton of people. I'm glad I was able to figure out where ur from...now go relax.

Dude, I wasn't born there, I said my parents came from there, but I have spent a considerable amount of time working in Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia. It doesn't influence my political stance on anything.

 Who did you talk to, while you were over there? The anwser for every probelm there is, One groups pleasure is another groups pain.

The history between the folks is deep, long and troubled, too much to type now but in short, people do dislike America over there, it all depends which group you talk to. You think the Albanians in Kosovo are happy? They are now. Serbs just lost a bunch of land to Albanians. Ask a Serb how he feels about it and where America fits into their view of these things.  You think Croatians were happy that America came 3 years too late to stop what was going on there, while they lost land to the Serbs? When America started bombing Serbia the Croatian attitude was, "Gee, thanks for coming NOW while we were making advances and telling us to stop operations to reclaim lost land." To this day, Croatia has not been able to reclaim teritory lost during the war.

You think I hate America, I don't,  I only know they only get involved when it suits their purpose/need, that's a fact, and it has NOTHING to do with saving lives. That is why America is disliked over there. Don't take it personally man, it has to do with foriegn policy and not the  actual American citizens. America just needs to butt out of other people's business, the sooner they do that the better it will be for everyone.

insurgence - an organized rebellion aimed at overthrowing a constituted government through the use of subversion and armed conflict

Believe me, there was and is a lot of these groups still there waiting for the oppurtunity for shit to start again. This Kosovo business has aready resulted in one group claiming responsibility for bombings last night.