Ancillaries like HCG and Clomid for Males to Young for AAS

[Mega Man]

I'm 24 and thinking about doing my first cycle....One of the safer ones with little side effects.

But I have younger cousins 18-21 that I won't let do AAS yet.

My question is since their Natural Test levels are high enough already to lift naturally still, can some Ancillaries that AAS users, use to boost natural Test levels after cycles...benefit a young male that shouldn't use AAS yet.

For example HCG, Clomid, Ect.

I know they would see Massive gains obviously, But could gains better than Creatine and Protein Powder be possible for my cousins?

Also I discovered that HCG injections are used in many weight loss clinices to lose weight/fat at low daily injections......Is this Effective or just a scam?

If it is effective, what kind of fat/wieght loss results are possible?

[Arnold jr]

This is not a good idea. They would be far better off using AAS then doing this HCG clomid thing.

[4thAD]

Just upping their cals and eating better will make them more anabolic at that age. Of course with consistent training.

[DIVISION]

I'm 24 and thinking about doing my first cycle....One of the safer ones with little side effects.

But I have younger cousins 18-21 that I won't let do AAS yet.

My question is since their Natural Test levels are high enough already to lift naturally still, can some Ancillaries that AAS users, use to boost natural Test levels after cycles...benefit a young male that shouldn't use AAS yet.

For example HCG, Clomid, Ect.

I know they would see Massive gains obviously, But could gains better than Creatine and Protein Powder be possible for my cousins?

Also I discovered that HCG injections are used in many weight loss clinices to lose weight/fat at low daily injections......Is this Effective or just a scam?

If it is effective, what kind of fat/wieght loss results are possible?

I've also heard about the HCG injections in weight loss programs.

Not sure about that.

While I don't think Clomid or HCG really benefit a natural lifter, Nolvadex might.........esp during dieting.



DIV

[freakfestMD]

While I don't think Clomid or HCG really benefit a natural lifter, Nolvadex might.........esp during dieting.

DIV

I've wondered about the effects of antiestrogens or estrogen blockers on skeletal growth in adolescent males.  Growth plates naturally close in response to circulating estrogens, secondary to testosterone breakdown.  It's basically one of the reasons AAS shouldn't be used in skeletally immature individuals.  I suspect the process of physeal closure would be arrested by estrogen blockade.  Any takers?

[Vet]

I've wondered about the effects of antiestrogens or estrogen blockers on skeletal growth in adolescent males.  Growth plates naturally close in response to circulating estrogens, secondary to testosterone breakdown.  It's basically one of the reasons AAS shouldn't be used in skeletally immature individuals.  I suspect the process of physeal closure would be arrested by estrogen blockade.  Any takers?

Yeah, I'll take you on this one..... i think you probably are correct in your thinking about prepubescent humans.  Antiestrogens are not something that should be messed with at that age because of the potential to mess up long bone growth by delaying physeal closure. 

If you consider animals as a human model, its been proven that males that are castrated immaturely (or prepubescently to use human terms)--ie dogs or cats, or in one case I know of an African lion they all have elongated long bones relative to siblings that weren't castrated.  Its very well documented in large breed dogs.

If you think about it, castration effectively removes the testosterone source in a male mammal.  There is testosterone production by the adrenals, but in relative terms, the testosterone production won't be as significant as testicular production unless there is some sort of adrenal abnormality.  Estrogen in mammals comes from either degradation of testosterone (like you mentioned) or from the adrenal gland.  Even with adrenal production, without the higher levels of testosterone to degrade to estrogen being produced by the testicles, there won't be enough estrogen to influence the E receptorAlpha in the bone growth plate.  As a result you see slightly delayed growth plate closure, resulting in longer long bones.   

The lion I mentioned is probably the most stunning example of delayed physeal closure.  He's fully 2 1/2 to 3 inches taller than any of his siblings and his father and tops out at almost 170 lbs heavier (he's carrying more body fat and less muscle mass than the other males because he is a castrated male) Because he was castrated as an immature male, he also doesn't have a mane, so from a distance he looks like the longest legged female lion I've ever seen.

[Mega Man]

I've also heard about the HCG injections in weight loss programs.

Not sure about that.

While I don't think Clomid or HCG really benefit a natural lifter, Nolvadex might.........esp during dieting.



DIV

Why do you think Nolvadex might help over the others, and what benefit might it have?

[busyB]

Why do you think Nolvadex might help over the others, and what benefit might it have?

Dude, I would re-read what the docs wrote.

DIV might have reasons but I would not mess with it after reading what vet and freak had to say.

[Mega Man]

Oh yeah no doubt...I understand, But I just want to learn from everyone so I was intererested at Div's reasons.

Now I have a new question....

Could a mature male like 35 take some ancillary or drug to boost his natural test production if he didn't want to take AAS or wasn't able to?

[sync pulse]

I've wondered about the effects of antiestrogens or estrogen blockers on skeletal growth in adolescent males.  Growth plates naturally close in response to circulating estrogens, secondary to testosterone breakdown.  It's basically one of the reasons AAS shouldn't be used in skeletally immature individuals.  I suspect the process of physeal closure would be arrested by estrogen blockade.  Any takers?

There used to be a class of singer called castrato where they would take a talented prepubescent boy with a nice sounding high voice and perform an orchidectomy. (what a euphemism!) This would keep his voice range in the higher registers.
It is well recorded that his limbs would grow much longer than normal males. Also, more importantly for a vocalist, his ribcage would grow larger than a normal male's giving him a much larger lung capacity.

[Mega Man]

I found this post from another site....tell me what you think

how to gain WITHOUT STEROIDS ? none AS cycle :

HCG 500 to 1000 iu per day every day ( or HMG 25 iu per day ) year round  , HCG is like shooting Testosterone Suspension so no need for steroids.

Arimidex : half a tab per day

Clomid : 1 tab every 12 hours

Clen starting at 100mcg then after one week go to 200mcg

10 ( ten ) ketitifen tablets before sleep. (not to be taken during day time) Keto does 3 things:

Works like valium for sleeping. more sleep = more natural HGH ,  2. Upgrades Clen Receptors. 3. If you are taking T3/T4 it stop Thyroid conversion in the liver.  Thats why taking T3 alone will not work , keto fix that ..

Whey protein or dry skim milk 50 grams x 4 times a day.

Workouts: Heavy Squats or Deadlifts. Do reps to failure and get at least 8 hours of sleep each night

[erokyrwrld]

This is IP's non-aas cycle.  Frankly, that much hcg will likely permanantly damage your leydig cells, resulting in sterilization.  Along with that much clen, I wouldn't expect any muscle, perhaps loss, not gain though.

[freakfestMD]

how to gain WITHOUT STEROIDS ? none AS cycle :

HCG 500 to 1000 iu per day every day ( or HMG 25 iu per day ) year round  , HCG is like shooting Testosterone Suspension so no need for steroids.

Arimidex : half a tab per day

Clomid : 1 tab every 12 hours

Clen starting at 100mcg then after one week go to 200mcg

10 ( ten ) ketitifen tablets before sleep. (not to be taken during day time) Keto does 3 things:

Quite retarded, actually.

And safer than AAS?  I think not.

[Van_Bilderass]

I've wondered about the effects of antiestrogens or estrogen blockers on skeletal growth in adolescent males.  Growth plates naturally close in response to circulating estrogens, secondary to testosterone breakdown.  It's basically one of the reasons AAS shouldn't be used in skeletally immature individuals.  I suspect the process of physeal closure would be arrested by estrogen blockade.  Any takers?

SERMs act as estrogens on bone tissue so that is a bad idea if you want to grow taller. There is some research on aromatase inhibitors for increasing height though. Can't remember the results.

[Mega Man]

Thanks for the replies guys....I acutaly got that post from a suppliers site at the bottom...go figure! 

I never heard of aromatase inhibitors for increasing height, thats interesting. I hope you can find that study or link....it sounds like a good read!~