Author Topic: Pettite says hes not a cheater...  (Read 3332 times)

tonymctones

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Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« on: February 19, 2008, 03:39:18 PM »
Andy admits to using hgh 3 times that we know of and has the nuts to say he doesnt consider himself a cheater, shit is ridiculous

Earl1972

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2008, 05:38:51 PM »
maybe he says that because he knew his competition was using too

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body88

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2008, 06:38:30 AM »
maybe he says that because he knew his competition was using too

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What does that matter? It's all about who gets caught right? Unless of course you have an agenda and justify one person while hanging another.

Earl1972

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2008, 12:39:03 PM »

What does that matter? It's all about who gets caught right? Unless of course you have an agenda and justify one person while hanging another.

i assume you are talking about the pats

numerous baseball players have been caught with performance enhancers

one football team was caught illegally taping and that one team has won 3 super bowls in this decade

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body88

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2008, 02:24:48 PM »
i assume you are talking about the pats

numerous baseball players have been caught with performance enhancers

one football team was caught illegally taping and that one team has won 3 super bowls in this decade

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The niners where caught illegally cheating the cap during there last sb. The steelers where fined several draft picks for illegal conduct in practises. A few third rounders I think.There is only one team in history with 5 rings caught cheating during practise , the steelers :o

Btw the commissioner of the NFL said himself the tapes the pats had , had no impact on the Jet's game and any other game in history. Stealing sings is not illegal. I find it comical how you guy's don't even know why the pats where fined. Taping sings from a CERTAIN spot on the sidelines was made illegal in 2006. It is still legal to tape them from above or from the endzone. At least read the rule. Taping signslegal from certain parts of the field to this day. Its splitting hairs really. Stealing signs is perfectly legal.

The owner of your own team has said that what the pats where accused of was a non issue. Guess Rooney is a liar to! Jimmy Johnson said he has been taping signals since he started coaching. Pats the only team ratted out , yep. Only team doing it? Nope.

Your hypocrisy is comical. Many players have been accused of using drugs , not convicted of it. You say it is ok for Pettite to justify his drug use since others are accused of the same thing. Love the double standard there. You better hope the pats don't get fed up with the hundreds off meatballs slandering them and legally persue some defermation suits. Because just like baseball the NFL might investigate EVERYONE and open up a whole can of worms. If you think the steelers ( thought of as one of the dirtiest teams in the NFL) are clean as a whistle you are nieve.

Arguments like your's are based on discrediting the pats and nothing else. That's fine though , the pats will beat the steelers just like they did this year  ;)

Earl1972

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2008, 05:13:59 PM »
a 3rd round pick is not a 1st round pick, clearly what the pats did was far worse

when was taping signs ever legal? i never heard anybody else say it was, post a link to this

rooney lives for the league, he wants this story to go away because this is an embarrassment for the league, kind of like how selig ignored steroids until he was forced to deal with it

when did jimmy johnson admit to taping?  post a link, i hope it's true because that means the cowboys are tainted too :D

we can say with 100% certainty that many if not most baseball players are using juice, we can't say the same about videotaping in the nfl, one team was caught and they were suspected for years :)

you don't like andy juicing because he's a yankee

who says the steelers are dirty?

i never had a problem with the pats until they were proven to be cheaters, it all makes sense now after they won with mostly no name players and by a field goal in each super bowl ;)

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body88

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2008, 07:15:30 PM »
a 3rd round pick is not a 1st round pick, clearly what the pats did was far worse

when was taping signs ever legal? i never heard anybody else say it was, post a link to this

Rooney lives for the league, he wants this story to go away because this is an embarrassment for the league, kind of like how Selig ignored steroids until he was forced to deal with it

when did jimmy johnson admit to taping?  post a link, i hope it's true because that means the cowboys are tainted too :D

we can say with 100% certainty that many if not most baseball players are using juice, we can't say the same about videotaping in the nfl, one team was caught and they were suspected for years :)

you don't like andy juicing because he's a yankee

who says the steelers are dirty?

i never had a problem with the pats until they were proven to be cheaters, it all makes sense now after they won with mostly no name players and by a field goal in each super bowl ;)

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There you go again. Getting fined a third round pick for cheating is not as bad as a first round pick. Cheating is cheating and the steelers cheated. Stealing sings is perfectly legal. Look at the NFL rule book. If you actually read what the pats where fined for , you would see they where fined for having a video machine in a undesignated area on the field. Its only certain parts of the field where it is illegal. You can tape signals from anywhere but certain areas on the field according to the leauge. Team's tape all the time. Again I'm not going to explain the rules to you , go to the NFL rule book and read them. Taping from the spot where the pats where busted was not always a rule violation.


Rooney gave a direct quote earlier this month stating emphatically that what the pats where accused of was a non issue. I am sure you read it. I guess you know Rooney was lying though. My guess is the guy stated his opinion on the matter and felt it was a none issue.


Here is a direct quote from Johnson regarding spygate and talking about how he and many others in the NFL taped signals.

“The only thing I can say is so many people made such a big to-do about it, and everybody – and I mean everybody – went to the edge on rules in one form or fashion. That’s just part of the game, that’s stealing the signals in baseball. This stuff has been going on for so long. When I came into the NFL, back in ’89, I talked to a Kansas City scout and he said here’s what we do ‘we videotape the opposing team’s signals and then we synch it up with the game film.’ So I did it.

“I know when I went to the Dolphins and they talked about how you’re supposed to have a 15-second cutoff [in communication] to your quarterback, but here is what we do [to circumvent that],” Johnson said. “They said they’ve always done this. So I said, OK let’s go ahead and do it. Then the league said ‘hey, we hear you’re doing that, so don’t do it any more.’

“The point I’m making – I’m not trying to say everybody is cheaters – is that you have a rulebook that is so thick and you say ‘how far can you go without breaking the rules.’ … When I coached the Cowboys, we didn’t have this kind of scrutiny. We didn’t have this kind of visibility. Thirty years ago, they really didn’t have this kind of scrutiny. But now, the scrutiny, every little thing we do – that’s why I said the media blew it so far out of proportion.

“Would the commissioner have fined them and taken a draft pick if it had been the Arizona Cardinals? There is a lot of jealousy in this league. The high profile, it’s almost making statement that ‘I’ve got to do it because of who it is.’ I know Bill Belichick very well, I know how he loves the NFL, he loves the history of the NFL, he loves the integrity of the NFL, that’s why it irritates me that anyone would ever question that.”


I don't hate Pettite because he is yankee. You missed my point. My point was you excuse Pettite due to certain "circumstances" , yet call others cheaters. That is called cherry picking to fit an agenda. According to you cheating is cheating. Both the steelers and pettite have cheated. As well as the Broncos who cheated the cap with Elway when thet won a superbowl.

I don't know what more to say. the owner of the steelers emphatically said that what the pats did was a none issue , yet you ignore that and claim he is just saying that to save the league. My guess is there is a lot of dirty laundry in all the major teams closets , and if one was to look at all the tapes from all the teams over the years a few things may come to light.

The steelers are considered dirty by many. Just ask Ricky Williams. That rook you guys picked up was the one who stomped on Williams chest when he was on the ground tearing the muscle during the Miami game.

Like I said , most of you guys don't bother to actually look into the things you speak on. I am not saying what the pats did was right , but I am saying that this issue has taken a life of it's own driven by an agenda. Most people take some headline without a fact in it and run with it. Why? It helps discredit a accomplished football team. Read why Goodel fined the pats , then read the response from the pats. It's not what you are saying it is.


Here is another link detaling spying in the NFL all the way back to the 50's. Its nothing new. Actually your own James Farrier was qouted as saying he was mad the steelers did not think to do it first!

http://www.thesportgallery.com/sport-stories/1967aug-nflspy.html

Earl1972

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2008, 09:28:32 PM »
when were we fined this 3rd round pick? I really don't remember

why is "spygate" such a big deal if you are actually allowed to tape signals from certain areas?

why would they take away the first round pick and dish out the fines if the camera wasn't where it should be? is it really that simple? i've only heard you mention this, no one on espn

rooney may truly feel it is a non issue, but he may just be trying to cover it up because it is a major embarrassment for the league

maybe every team is doing it but the pats are the only ones that we have proof of doing illegal taping

I don't feel steroids are cheating quite as much as knowing what play is coming next, inbaseball you still have to hit the ball

timmons stepping on williams was clearly an accident,timons actually was a big fan of his as a teen and how does one incident with one of our backups make us a drity team?

farrior's comment proves that my steelers don't cheat 8)

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body88

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2008, 05:51:17 AM »
when were we fined this 3rd round pick? I really don't remember

why is "spygate" such a big deal if you are actually allowed to tape signals from certain areas?

why would they take away the first round pick and dish out the fines if the camera wasn't where it should be? is it really that simple? i've only heard you mention this, no one on espn

rooney may truly feel it is a non issue, but he may just be trying to cover it up because it is a major embarrassment for the league

maybe every team is doing it but the pats are the only ones that we have proof of doing illegal taping

I don't feel steroids are cheating quite as much as knowing what play is coming next, inbaseball you still have to hit the ball

timmons stepping on williams was clearly an accident,timons actually was a big fan of his as a teen and how does one incident with one of our backups make us a drity team?

farrior's comment proves that my steelers don't cheat 8)

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Earl stealing signals is not illegal. Taping signals from CERTAIN spots on the field is. The rule is a joke , look it up. HOw can it be ok to tape signals from the stands , but not from the sideline? The commish of the NFL has said about 50 times that the tape confiscated from the pats had no outcome on the jets game. Nor did any of the other tapes handed over. Infact one of the tapes had a coach waving at the cam laughing.

Anyone who knows football knows that there is no way to sync up signs from three different coaches over 12 min at halftime. It is impossible. Again stealing sings is NOT illegal. The pats where busted for taping from a illegal area.


Spygate is a huge deal because the media hates Bill Belichick and they blew this thing sky high.


Earl1972

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2008, 10:37:50 AM »
i know stealing signals is not illegal, i never thought TAPING signals was legal

maybe i'm ignorant because i thought it was illegal to tape signals from ANYWHERE on the field

i know the taping of the jets game had no affect on that particular game, but how long have they been illegally taping other teams?  if they taped the jets that game, i would think they planned on using that tape for the next game against the jets

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body88

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2008, 12:16:10 PM »
i know stealing signals is not illegal, i never thought TAPING signals was legal

maybe i'm ignorant because i thought it was illegal to tape signals from ANYWHERE on the field

i know the taping of the jets game had no affect on that particular game, but how long have they been illegally taping other teams?  if they taped the jets that game, i would think they planned on using that tape for the next game against the jets

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Thats what they where planning on doing. Belichick admitted it. The rule states you cannot tape from the sidelines from certain areas with a "video machine" for a game in progress. Not for the future. Belichick and co hold true to the fact the rule never said you cannot tape for the future. It was a loophole Belichick thought he could exploit. The pats where fined for filming from an undesignated area. Even then Goodel said flat out the tape gave the pats no advantage in the game.Scouts steal sings for future games all the time. That is a fact , stealing sings is not illegal. Taping from certain spots is. Teams change there sings every quarter because stealing them is not illegal. Taping them is illegal from certain areas , but not all. What the pats where fined for was taping from a restricted spot on the field. I know it is weird right? That why I have a problem with the media. The rule has a ton of grey area that does not make sense , and the media is ripping Beli out of hate , not facts. You can tape from this spo,t from that spot , but not from this spot. Stealing sings is not illegal and common place but taping them is a no no. Its all fucked up.

Look at what the pat's biggest rival Bill Polian had to say. GM of the colts and a member of the competition committee that investigated the pats. This is the same guy who has said several negative things about the patriots. Had rules changed because he felt the pats mugged his receivers in the 04 afc championship game. He is talking about the spygate investigating.

http://www.boston.com/sports/footbal.../reiss_pieces/

Quote:
Another member of the committee, Colts president Bill Polian, shared his opinion on the NFL’s investigation of the Patriots.

“From my perspective, that was a thorough, fair, efficient process with lots of integrity,” he said. “I think it’s fair to say we [as a committee] were satisfied with the explanation, satisfied with what was done, and at least I am anyway. It’s behind us. It’s time to move forward.” 



Actual NFL people are calling this whole thing overblown. The circus media are the ones who are blowing it up. New York hates Boston. Wonder why they are frontrunners in the anti Belichik agenda.

tonymctones

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2008, 01:28:19 AM »
maybe he says that because he knew his competition was using too

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wow i hadnt checked this thread in a while, it kinda got off topic. It doesnt matter if other people were using it the league forbid it and if one even one person was not taking hgh or steroids it would still be cheating. So what other people were undoubtly taking it that doesnt make pettite not a cheater it just means alot of people were cheating. And to clarify the reason he said he didnt feel like a cheater was b/c he was taking if for recovery, which is still cheating by the way.

Earl1972

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2008, 11:49:29 AM »
wow i hadnt checked this thread in a while, it kinda got off topic. It doesnt matter if other people were using it the league forbid it and if one even one person was not taking hgh or steroids it would still be cheating. So what other people were undoubtly taking it that doesnt make pettite not a cheater it just means alot of people were cheating. And to clarify the reason he said he didnt feel like a cheater was b/c he was taking if for recovery, which is still cheating by the way.

i never said it wasn't cheating, he probably justified his use by thinking everybody else is doing it

also if andy used them just for recovery, how is that cheating but getting a cortizone shot isn't?

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tonymctones

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2008, 01:55:32 PM »
i never said it wasn't cheating, he probably justified his use by thinking everybody else is doing it

also if andy used them just for recovery, how is that cheating but getting a cortizone shot isn't?

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as far as i know cortizone shots are not prohibited by MLB so that is the difference.  Anybody can use cortizone shots but hgh is prohibited. Cheating in this instance is b/c the hgh is not allowed under any circumstances, therefore i person who uses this gains an unfair advantage over those who choose to not cheat and follow the rules. and yes it was his justification, and imho an asinine justification

Earl1972

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2008, 02:56:22 PM »
as far as i know cortizone shots are not prohibited by MLB so that is the difference.  Anybody can use cortizone shots but hgh is prohibited. Cheating in this instance is b/c the hgh is not allowed under any circumstances, therefore i person who uses this gains an unfair advantage over those who choose to not cheat and follow the rules. and yes it was his justification, and imho an asinine justification

hgh was not mentioned as illegal in the mlb back then

and why is cortizone legal but hgh isn't?

it's not natural, did they have it in babe ruth's era?

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tonymctones

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2008, 07:20:01 AM »
hgh was not mentioned as illegal in the mlb back then

and why is cortizone legal but hgh isn't?

it's not natural, did they have it in babe ruth's era?

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k well it doesnt have to be stated that hgh is illegal in the MLB b/c its ILLEGAL IN THE USA, im not sure but it probably states that no use of illicit substances or some blanket statement that hgh would fall into. its not a question of natural or not its a question of rules, hgh is not allowed cortisone is. I dont see whats so hard to understand...your right they didnt have it during babe's era so the playing field was even when you have one person taking hgh or anything performance enhancing that isnt obtainable for any reason to the other players even for recovery he is recovering faster than someone who isnt taking it which is an unfair advantage. If he didnt think he was doing anything wrong then why did he lie about it?
are you just trying to play devils advocate here or do you seriously think that he is right?

240 is Back

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2008, 08:21:09 AM »
yeah, he's a cheater.

Most are, but still.  he cheated.

Good on him to admit it, though.  Clemens is in a shitstorm because of his pride.

Earl1972

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2008, 04:20:25 PM »
k well it doesnt have to be stated that hgh is illegal in the MLB b/c its ILLEGAL IN THE USA, im not sure but it probably states that no use of illicit substances or some blanket statement that hgh would fall into. its not a question of natural or not its a question of rules, hgh is not allowed cortisone is. I dont see whats so hard to understand...your right they didnt have it during babe's era so the playing field was even when you have one person taking hgh or anything performance enhancing that isnt obtainable for any reason to the other players even for recovery he is recovering faster than someone who isnt taking it which is an unfair advantage. If he didnt think he was doing anything wrong then why did he lie about it?
are you just trying to play devils advocate here or do you seriously think that he is right?

cortisone should not be allowed if hgh isn't, it wasn't used during babe's era and it does give an advantage, IF YOU NEED CORTISONE TO PLAY IT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN NEEDING HGH

andy lied because he knew people would judge him, just like women lying about having cosmetic surgery

there is more than enough proof that many if not most players are using performance enhancers, you almost would have to be stupid not to use anything with the money and glory on the line

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tonymctones

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2008, 07:29:25 PM »
cortisone should not be allowed if hgh isn't, it wasn't used during babe's era and it does give an advantage, IF YOU NEED CORTISONE TO PLAY IT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN NEEDING HGH

andy lied because he knew people would judge him, just like women lying about having cosmetic surgery

there is more than enough proof that many if not most players are using performance enhancers, you almost would have to be stupid not to use anything with the money and glory on the line

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ok Earl we can agree on one thing you would be stupid not to take something with the money involved....NOW on to the rest of your nonsense logic you have going on over there
by your logic none of the advancements should be allowed, advancements in gloves, cleats, bats, uniforms just b/c they werent available in babes era right? if i read your post right thats where your logic leads us? RIGHT?
lol Earl give it up bud, cortisone is different b/c it is legal, ill say it again CORTISONE IS DIFFERENT B/C IT IS LEGAL...I see were your coming from but the fact remains that these players signed up to play for the MLB in doing so the agreed to not use any banned substances, he lied b/c he knew he was breaking the rules plain and simple.
I can see where your coming from but thats a moot point, your arguement has to do with the government and hgh being illegal but cortisone being legal
The difference in HGH and cortisone is that HGH isnt available to everybody in the MLB, CORTISONE IS!!!!!!!!!

tonymctones

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2008, 07:30:18 PM »
Again do your really believe that hes not a cheater or are you just playing devils advocate

Earl1972

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2008, 04:21:28 PM »
ok Earl we can agree on one thing you would be stupid not to take something with the money involved....NOW on to the rest of your nonsense logic you have going on over there
by your logic none of the advancements should be allowed, advancements in gloves, cleats, bats, uniforms just b/c they werent available in babes era right? if i read your post right thats where your logic leads us? RIGHT?
lol Earl give it up bud, cortisone is different b/c it is legal, ill say it again CORTISONE IS DIFFERENT B/C IT IS LEGAL...I see were your coming from but the fact remains that these players signed up to play for the MLB in doing so the agreed to not use any banned substances, he lied b/c he knew he was breaking the rules plain and simple.
I can see where your coming from but thats a moot point, your arguement has to do with the government and hgh being illegal but cortisone being legal
The difference in HGH and cortisone is that HGH isnt available to everybody in the MLB, CORTISONE IS!!!!!!!!!

i have no problem with cleats or bats, you still have to hit the ball and i don't know what advantage they give

cortisone allows a player to get on the field while injured, who knows how many homers Babe would've hit if they had it back then? what makes cortisone safe?

hgh should be legal and any player can get it, i'm convinced most do use it and andy is not a cheater because of that 8)

ask ronnie coleman if he uses drugs and he will say NO to avoid judgement, is he a cheater?

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tonymctones

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2008, 05:02:39 PM »
i have no problem with cleats or bats, you still have to hit the ball and i don't know what advantage they give

cortisone allows a player to get on the field while injured, who knows how many homers Babe would've hit if they had it back then? what makes cortisone safe?

hgh should be legal and any player can get it, i'm convinced most do use it and andy is not a cheater because of that 8)

ask ronnie coleman if he uses drugs and he will say NO to avoid judgement, is he a cheater?

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or b/c it says in the ifbb rulebook that steriods are not allowed, HGH should be legal i agree but that doesnt change the fact that it isnt and when i said it wasnt available to every player i meant legally not physically. you just said it MOST player indicating that some dont b/c they want to follow the rules...this is the unfair advantage...how hard is this to understand

Earl1972

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2008, 12:00:51 PM »
if baseball truly cared about fairness there would be a salary cap

since when did baseball ever care about fairness?

whether you use hgh or not, you still have to hit the ball and in andy's case you still have to throw strikes

and i still say that andy had little advantage over most players 8)

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tonymctones

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2008, 04:35:04 PM »
All moot points b/c he signed up to play knowing he couldnt use hgh....this make him a cheater 8) arguement over ;D

Earl1972

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Re: Pettite says hes not a cheater...
« Reply #24 on: February 29, 2008, 12:24:29 PM »
All moot points b/c he signed up to play knowing he couldnt use hgh....this make him a cheater 8) arguement over ;D

the rulebook back then said nothing about hgh 8)


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