Author Topic: Very Sad Story  (Read 10731 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #125 on: February 29, 2008, 10:42:51 AM »
The WMD inspectors did not have to rely on some possibly erroneous belief of Iraq's alleged threat to the US.

As Reagan said, "Trust but verify."

Right in the middle of the WMD inspectors verification of whether the WMD claims were true, Bush attacked.

Do you deny that?

Do you now see why your belief of Iraq's WMD capacity was never verified?

We may never know what happened to the man's weapons program.  I think there was too much smoke to conclude he wasn't trying to obtain them.  I share the belief of those (including those I've talked to who have been on the ground) that he probably moved what he had out of the country before we invaded.  We really gave him too much time.   

Dos Equis

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #126 on: February 29, 2008, 10:46:23 AM »
I'm not moving the goal posts.  I'm pointing out how the US and others profit from the Iraqi invasion without having to 'own or control' the oil.

The mafia profits from it's contracts too.  I'm absolutely certain that the Iraqi people were in as good a bargaining position as the US and other foreign interests in carving up the profit agreements on the Iraqi oil.  I mean here are the Iraq people with oil and oil extraction/development infrastructure and here comes the foreign oil companies with no oil.  It's a win-win situation!.

Why are you moving the goal posts re the US Gov's profiting from the theft of Iraqi oil?  I'll bite.  The US Gov. profits from the increased revenues from the US companies doing business in Iraqi oil.  But that's not a good answer.  The Bush Administration uses government to enrich cronies and friends alike....even if that means killing Iraqi people that interfering in the theft. 

Well, I agree that's not a good answer.   :D  The amount of increased taxes that will be paid on increased revenues is a drop in the bucket.  The whole "we control their oil" argument is full of holes.  Glad you don't embrace that one.   :)

Decker

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #127 on: February 29, 2008, 10:53:40 AM »
We may never know what happened to the man's weapons program.  I think there was too much smoke to conclude he wasn't trying to obtain them.  I share the belief of those (including those I've talked to who have been on the ground) that he probably moved what he had out of the country before we invaded.  We really gave him too much time.   
I understand your sentiment but that is not a lawful reason to go to war. 

We had the world class scientists find zilch re WMDs.  And Bush attacked anyways.

Your speculation about the moving of WMDs might be true and it might not be true.  (I have seen reports that the Inspectors could tell if any WMDs had been present and moved from Iraq)

There are a couple of certainties beyond contention:

1.  The WMD inspectors were finding no WMDS

2.  Bush ordered an attack irrespective of those findings.

That is unjustifiable and a war crime to boot.  There is no gray area here.

Colossus_500

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #128 on: February 29, 2008, 11:34:24 AM »
The Suicide of Emma Beck and Silence No More
By Michelle Malkin
Wednesday, February 27, 2008
townhall.com

She didn't have to die. And neither did her unborn children. Over the weekend, London newspapers reported on the 2007 suicide of 30-year-old Emma Beck, a young British artist who hung herself after the abortion of her twin babies. Perhaps the retelling of her suffering can prevent more needless deaths.

The agony and loneliness in Emma Beck's suicide note resonate across the pond, across racial and class lines, across generations. She was distraught over a breakup with her boyfriend, who didn't want the children. She was suffering intense grief from her decision to end the lives inside her. And so she ended her own.

"I should never have had an abortion. I see now I would have been a good mum," Beck wrote. "I told everyone I didn't want to do it, even at the hospital. I was frightened, now it is too late. I died when my babies died. I want to be with my babies -- they need me, no one else does."

Beck's family blames the medical establishment. The judicial system, as is so often the case, has become a coping mechanism. A British court recently held a hearing on Beck's suicide. Beck's mother revealed that her daughter "was not given the opportunity to see a counselor."

When a professional "counselor" can't be found, isn't that what mothers are for?

But it's not just jaded abortion providers and medical assistants, AWOL counselors and MIA parents who need to look in the mirror. We have tolerated a culture of callousness and nurtured an entitlement to convenience for decades. Feminists shush women with post-abortion regrets. Population control zealots and Planned Parenthood drum it into the heads of young women around the world: "The fewer, the merrier" and "Why carry more burdens?" their T-shirts and bumper stickers proclaim.

Last fall, in Emma Beck's homeland, the British press went gaga over an environmental nitwit who had an abortion and got her tubes tied to "protect the planet." She told the London Daily Mail: "Every person who is born uses more food, more water, more land, more fossil fuels, more trees and produces more rubbish, more pollution, more greenhouse gases, and adds to the problem of over-population."

That came on the heels of a British think tank report on how children are bad for the environment. Said John Guillebaud, emeritus professor of family planning at University College London: "The effect on the planet of having one child less is an order of magnitude greater than all these other things we might do, such as switching off lights. The greatest thing anyone in Britain could do to help the future of the planet would be to have one less child."

And who gets premium op-ed space in America's newspaper of record to talk about abortion? Idiots like University of Iowa adjunct assistant writing professor Brian Goedde, who shared his festive thoughts surrounding the New Year's Eve before his girlfriend's abortion in an essay a few months ago in The New York Times. "The abortion is scheduled for two days from now, and we're holing up," he reminisced. "We do the dishes brush our teeth, climb into bed and have unprotected sex. 'I'm not going to get more pregnant,' Emily says. I've never felt pleasure more guiltily."

What you rarely hear are the voices telling you that such self-indulgence is wrong. What you rarely read are the stories of untold women (and men) around the world who know the vaunted choice they made was wrong and need help. What you rarely see are the studies showing that with abortion come lifelong costs and consequences -- high levels of post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, grief, ostracism, guilt and, in at least one study in Finland, higher suicide rates.

Delivering that message here in the United States are preventive groups like the National Institute of Family and Life Advocates (nifla.org), which donates ultrasound equipment and training to open up a "window to the womb" for women in crisis pregnancies, and post-abortion healing organizations like Silent No More (silentnomoreawareness.or g). To combat abortion glorifiers, the Silent No More Awareness campaign makes the public aware that abortion is emotionally, physically and spiritually harmful to women and others; reaches out to women who are hurting from an abortion and lets them know help is available; and invites women to join us in speaking the truth about abortion's negative consequences.

What Emma Beck most needed to hear is the message abortion pushers most desperately want to drown out: You are not alone.
MLK's niece: 'Abortion a racist, genocidal act'
Jim Brown - OneNewsNow -
2/29/2008 10:00:00 AM

The niece of Martin Luther King, Jr., has used an appearance at a Black History Month event in Washington, DC, to reject the claim that her famous uncle supported abortion rights for women.

Dr. Alveda King says although her uncle -- the late civil rights leader Martin Luther King, Jr. -- accepted an award from Planned Parenthood in 1966, the abortion group had a "hidden agenda" at the time. "I don't want anybody to be confused by thinking that Dr. King could condone the violent death of the little babies, and the violent consequences that women suffer," King clarifies. "I'm post-abortive myself. I've suffered ... and it was a secret in my family for too long. And so now we’re here today to speak out on behalf of those who cannot speak for themselves. Abortion is a racist, genocidal act."
 
King was one of several black pro-life leaders who met in Washington yesterday to celebrate their ethnicity and decry abortion and its disproportionate effect on blacks. And during a news conference at the Family Research Council, Dr. Johnny Hunter, president of the Life Education and Resource Network, predicted that at some point in America abortion would be abolished, just like slavery and Jim Crow laws.
 
"The way of the wicked does not last forever, and that's why we get to celebrate Black History Month," says Hunter. "Because all throughout black history [there have] been blacks who have taken a stand no matter where the people were when they got here. By the time they left this earth, we were a little bit better off."
 
Hunter declared that in merely three days time in America, the abortion industry "kills more blacks than the KKK ever lynched."

Straw Man

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #129 on: February 29, 2008, 11:45:43 AM »
Big difference

abortion is voluntary

lynching  - usually not voluntary

Dos Equis

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #130 on: February 29, 2008, 01:06:45 PM »
MLK's niece: 'Abortion a racist, genocidal act'
Jim Brown - OneNewsNow -
2/29/2008 10:00:00 AM

The niece of Martin Luther King, Jr., has used an appearance at a Black History Month event in Washington, DC, to reject the claim that her famous uncle supported abortion rights for women.

Dr. Alveda King says although her uncle -- the late civil rights leader Martin Luther King, Jr. -- accepted an award from Planned Parenthood in 1966, the abortion group had a "hidden agenda" at the time. "I don't want anybody to be confused by thinking that Dr. King could condone the violent death of the little babies, and the violent consequences that women suffer," King clarifies. "I'm post-abortive myself. I've suffered ... and it was a secret in my family for too long. And so now we’re here today to speak out on behalf of those who cannot speak for themselves. Abortion is a racist, genocidal act."
 
King was one of several black pro-life leaders who met in Washington yesterday to celebrate their ethnicity and decry abortion and its disproportionate effect on blacks. And during a news conference at the Family Research Council, Dr. Johnny Hunter, president of the Life Education and Resource Network, predicted that at some point in America abortion would be abolished, just like slavery and Jim Crow laws.
 
"The way of the wicked does not last forever, and that's why we get to celebrate Black History Month," says Hunter. "Because all throughout black history [there have] been blacks who have taken a stand no matter where the people were when they got here. By the time they left this earth, we were a little bit better off."
 
Hunter declared that in merely three days time in America, the abortion industry "kills more blacks than the KKK ever lynched."

I agree with her:  I doubt MLK knew about Planned Parenthood's real agenda in 1966. 

Straw Man

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #131 on: February 29, 2008, 01:13:13 PM »
I agree with her:  I doubt MLK knew about Planned Parenthood's real agenda in 1966. 

hidden agenda = preventing unwanted pregnancies




Colossus_500

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #132 on: February 29, 2008, 03:40:50 PM »
hidden agenda = preventing unwanted pregnancies
If that's true then why does planned parenthood always apply for building permits under false pretenses? 

calmus

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #133 on: February 29, 2008, 03:46:21 PM »
If that's true then why does planned parenthood always apply for building permits under false pretenses? 

Maybe they're concerned that right wingers will firebomb them? Just a thought....

Deedee

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #134 on: February 29, 2008, 03:54:52 PM »
First of all, she was an artist, soooo that means she was a wack. All artists are one way or another. It was a statement to kill herself on her birthday.  ::)

Secondly, her boyfriend didn't accept his responsibility for his children and they broke up, which probably had more to do with her suicide than anything else.  ::)

Thirdly, apparently the counselor who would have helped her, since she was referred, was on vacation and they didn't have anyone to cover. So, it was also partially the fault of all those who prefer lower taxes rather than providing the kind of social welfare care that could have helped a wack artist whose boyfriend didn't want his children.  ::)

Fourthly, plenty of women killed themselves back in the day... when abortion was illegal and women couldn't deal with being ostracized, etc.  That, or they gave up their children and hated themselves for it the rest of their lives. Either way, how was that social situation any better for women?  ::)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/22/nartist122.xml

Deicide

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #135 on: February 29, 2008, 03:57:45 PM »
how about just life in general

it would be much more consistent to be a devout Christian and also be a pacifist and against capital punishment....

....and plenty of Christians and other religious people understand this and don't need to have it explained to them (ad naseum) on a bodybuilding message board

I disagree; have you ever read their Holy Book of Horrors? It's really no wonder where they get their ideas from...
I hate the State.

Colossus_500

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #136 on: February 29, 2008, 04:08:26 PM »
Maybe they're concerned that right wingers will firebomb them? Just a thought....
Not so much the right wing, but people that know this is just wrong.  Even Planned Parenthood admits it's a business. 

Deedee

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #137 on: February 29, 2008, 04:27:10 PM »
Not so much the right wing, but people that know this is just wrong.  Even Planned Parenthood admits it's a business. 

You're so funny to argue from this point of view.  :)

"She was only going ahead with the abortion because her boyfriend did not want the twins."

That's a quote from the mother.  I've never seen you start threads asking men to take responsibility for their children.  ;) It's been a problem since the beginning of time. No? And I suppose that's why women have access to abortion. It's sad of course for anyone to have to go through that sort of procedure, but practical, considering human history.

Colossus_500

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #138 on: February 29, 2008, 04:43:48 PM »
You're so funny to argue from this point of view.  :)

"She was only going ahead with the abortion because her boyfriend did not want the twins."

That's a quote from the mother.  I've never seen you start threads asking men to take responsibility for their children.  ;) It's been a problem since the beginning of time. No? And I suppose that's why women have access to abortion. It's sad of course for anyone to have to go through that sort of procedure, but practical, considering human history.
You must not be reading all of my posts on abortion then.  The fellas need to step it up.  That's a good portion of the problem....to many "hit-and-run" situations, leaving the poor girl to believe this is her only option.  You definitely haven't read all of my viewpoints.  :-\

Deicide

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #139 on: February 29, 2008, 04:54:09 PM »
Yes, much as Mother Teresa said:

Quote
But I feel that the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion.

Fundy Wackjobs.
I hate the State.

Deedee

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #140 on: February 29, 2008, 10:04:52 PM »
You must not be reading all of my posts on abortion then.  The fellas need to step it up.  That's a good portion of the problem....to many "hit-and-run" situations, leaving the poor girl to believe this is her only option.  You definitely haven't read all of my viewpoints.  :-\

Point me to your viewpoints.  :)

Deicide

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #141 on: March 01, 2008, 12:10:30 AM »
Point me to your viewpoints.  :)

Read my post on fundies and politics; it's applicable here too...
I hate the State.

Straw Man

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #142 on: March 01, 2008, 09:26:31 AM »
I disagree; have you ever read their Holy Book of Horrors? It's really no wonder where they get their ideas from...

what part do you disagree with?

Deicide

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #143 on: March 01, 2008, 05:58:05 PM »
what part do you disagree with?

Read Exodus and Leviticus....lots of god approved killing there, genocide and murder...good stuff....and very Christian as well.
I hate the State.

Straw Man

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Re: Very Sad Story
« Reply #144 on: March 01, 2008, 06:06:53 PM »
Read Exodus and Leviticus....lots of god approved killing there, genocide and murder...good stuff....and very Christian as well.

No doubt the bible is full of contradictions and plenty of violence.  Unless you're just going to randomly interpret the bible (which most obviously do) then there should be some sort of coherent pattern otherwise it's all nonsense.

My position of course being it's all nonsense