Dispute this logic on bodybuilding drug use in the pros

[Van_Bilderass]

I have explained this before...bodybuilding never has been, and never will be, popular.  Why?  Because it is BORING AS FUCK to see men in thongs pose on stage.  It really is that simple.  It's not like other sports which have a degree of excitement.  The concept of seeing men go through quarter turns and posing is simply not entertaining.  It is so simple, yet people keep questioning what it would take to turn bodybuilding into something with market appeal.  I will answer that now: it is not possible.

Yes bodybuilding shows are boring as hell. The only time I go to a show is when I support and help a friend backstage, etc. The ONLY reason many of us follow bodybuilding at all is to see something extraordinarily grotesque, something that makes our jaw drop, something only achieved with extreme drug use.

[LATS]

 AMEN.. those that pay for the shows, tickets, supplements ect generaly want to see jaw dropping physiques.. haidar, ect are not going to put ass in the seats..

[HowieW]

Howard....make up your mind, buddy.

Last time I checked, you still SUPPORT this industry by going to shows and the like. If you honestly want this issue resolved and bbing cleaned up, perhaps you should stop spending your hard earned dough on it. Fuck, I love bbing too, but this current circus of scumbags and criminals is unacceptable.

Hmmm, you make a good point about my continued support of pro bodybuilding in its' present state.
I love bodybuilding and would actually PREFER seeing the top pros on a lot less drugs.
I would support drug tested IFBB pro shows as much as I could, trust me.
Having said that, I am first and formost, a fan of bodybuilding. Granted, I don't agree with the lack of drug testing in the IFBB , but that still won't keep me going to major events. I still respect the hard work and strict diet regimes the pros endure to put a ripped bopdy on the pro stage. I know that the drugs tend to increase the mass of the muscles , but they would be GREAT physquies WITHOUT drugs, just smaller.
The drug myth persists , in part, due to the pro wanna be with lousy genetics and/or poor training and diet habbits.
It is a ready made excuse as to why someone is not all that great a bodybuilder, and why the pros are so much better.
If they just get on that magical drug cycle, they  can win a pro card and qualify for the Olympia.
Take away that myth and these same wanna be's are left with no delusions or false hope. Reality and absulute truth can be cruel.

[HowieW]

This is a question for Bob Chick he is the competitors rep and he will tell you all about the IFBB DRUG testing and how many Pros have been tested in the last five years???It's a Fukin joke and we know it's not all illegal with the law but read the banned substance rule in the IFBB rule book.Pro Drug use = Pro.

Bob is a lot more candid when talking to him in person , off the record in casual conversation with a sincere fan , like me and others. He feels that bigger and harder pro bodybuilders can draw a bigger audiance and help the sport gain financial backers and advertisers, etc. He is no fool and is not going to openly discuss any specific drug stuff, in public at an expo however. Bob Chic is pretty realistic and wants the best for bodybuilding, no question about it.
Bob is a pro and works as the pros rep along with being ovolved with Pro BB radio and bodybuilding.com, etc.

By problem with Bob's ideas is not in the practical nature of them as what he says is true. My issue is the fact that nobody can openly talk about drug use in pro bodybuilding. In the current political climate against steroids, this is a sure way to end up having the bodybuilding drug issue explode in our face.As a political Junkie, I am amazed at how the world of bodybuilding acts like they can just ignore the drug laws and expect nothing will happens to our sport??!!!
I sncerely hope I am wrong as I really going to the pro events. The IFBB lineup of contests is starting to expand and I enjoy the smaller pro events.
Howard

[HowieW]

Yes bodybuilding shows are boring as hell. The only time I go to a show is when I support and help a friend backstage, etc. The ONLY reason many of us follow bodybuilding at all is to see something extraordinarily grotesque, something that makes our jaw drop, something only achieved with extreme drug use.

I hear this "arguement" made in favor of drugged bodybuilders a lot. It may be what a lot fans like, but it does NOTHING to deal with the legal issue. Just because some guys into cars like to drive fast and peal out , doesn't mean they can drive 100 mph with their car  on fire down a US hwy , and use " because it looks cool " as  a legal defense that will work and convive the cop not to arrest them.
Just becuase the fans prefer it does not mean it should be allowed. With that "logic" we could have fights to death or feature contests with gladiators being eaten by lions.
The fans choice is NOT legal grounds to ingore the federal drug laws, c'mon.

[Van_Bilderass]

I hear this "arguement" made in favor of drugged bodybuilders a lot. It may be what a lot fans like, but it does NOTHING to deal with the legal issue. Just because some guys into cars like to drive fast and peal out , doesn't mean they can drive 100 mph with their car  on fire down a US hwy , and use " because it looks cool " as  a legal defense that will work and convive the cop not to arrest them.
Just becuase the fans prefer it does not mean it should be allowed. With that "logic" we could have fights to death or feature contests with gladiators being eaten by lions.
The fans choice is NOT legal grounds to ingore the federal drug laws, c'mon.

And? What do you expect the IFBB to do? What do you think they should do? Do you think they should institute WBF style drug testing and kill the sport? They won't because they know that would be the death of the sport.

Drug testing solves nothing. Random infrequent drug testing = a few athletes are burned for nothing. Wide scale drug testing a la WBF = the athletes go to NABBA or where ever they can continue unhindered.

[Vince B]

Thinking like BuildanAss is what is killing this sport. Congratulations.

[Van_Bilderass]

Thinking like BuildanAss is what is killing this sport. Congratulations.

Yes, IFBB Pro bodybuilding is dead and natural bodybuilding is thriving. Who is your pick to win the next natural pro card? That's what I though, no one gives a shit about drug free bodybuilding including you.

[Vince B]

I am 100% behind bodybuilding, but not chemical enhancement, etc.

[technokc]

I am 100% behind bodybuilding, but not chemical enhancement, etc.

Just curious Vince, did you ever use steroids when you competed, or were you natural?  If you used what makes you feel against them now?

[io856]

Vince is not natural and never claimed to be

[MAXX]

Thinking like BuildanAss is what is killing this sport. Congratulations.

Nobody is forcing you to follow this drug filled "sport".

If you dont like the IFBB then who cares. There are natural organisations but you have no interest in those anyway so stop being such a hypocrit.

[Vince B]

What sport is this?

[HowieW]

And? What do you expect the IFBB to do? What do you think they should do? Do you think they should institute WBF style drug testing and kill the sport? They won't because they know that would be the death of the sport.

Drug testing solves nothing. Random infrequent drug testing = a few athletes are burned for nothing. Wide scale drug testing a la WBF = the athletes go to NABBA or where ever they can continue unhindered.

I agree that the IFBB  is the top bodybuilding organization with the best shows ans pros, etc. It always was and will be for some time, no question about it.
However, trung to defend a format,based on fan appeal, that essentially requires these same pros to BREAK THE LAW just to compete on a level playing field is ludicrous at best.
No pro athelte should be required to break the drug laws , just to compete fairly. Think about it, you actually have to risk breaking the drug laws to compete as a pro now. How is that position able to be dfended on the merits of the policy?tell me , please???
Once again, just because the fans want to see pros on illegal drugs is hardly grounds to defend the position.
I guess the next poor pro who ets busted can tell the judge : " Well your honor the fans demand to see freaks, so I had to juice to the gills."
The Judge will of course reply; " Oh I know, you are 100% correct and case dissmissed!
As fans we bear no legal burdens and get to see INCREDIBLE physiques on the IFBB stage.
The promoters get to sell more tickets and the IFBB remains the top BB sanction.
A handful of the top pros do ok, but the rest don't do very well, end up getting busted or with servere health troubles.

[HowieW]

Nobody is forcing you to follow this drug filled "sport".

If you dont like the IFBB then who cares. There are natural organisations but you have no interest in those anyway so stop being such a hypocrit.

I know this was NOt directed at me, but I wanted to weigh in on this pt.
I like the IFBB and have been a member of the NPC for several years now.I even judge regional NPC shows.
My big issue is not peresonal but out of conern for fair , effective rule enforcement:
Imagine if you will that you have good physique and some real pro potential.
You compete is a couple state level shows and win your wt class, despite being natural.
You have a good job in a legit profession but still have the passion and drive to go for being a pro .
In order to make this dream a reality, you know have to make a big choice.
Do you risk breaking the drug laws, use the required drugs or do you stay clean and forget about going pro.
You are willing to take the risks , but fear losing your job and career if you get busted.
All sports have some level of health risks at the elite levels. But c'mon, NOBODY should be REQUIRED to break the drug laws just to have fair shot at the big time!

[BEAST 8692]

to answer this deeply philosophical question we must refer it to the ifbb athlete's rep, bob chick...

ok, i've asked the athlete's rep and here is his response:

the ifbb rules are only applicable to those that become undesirable at any given time for any given reason.

the law is only applicable to those that become undesirable at any given time for any given reason. people who use steroids are undesirable at this particular time and prostitutes provide a meaningful service to politicians.

[HowieW]

to answer this deeply philosophical question we must refer it to the ifbb athlete's rep, bob chick...

ok, i've asked the athlete's rep and here is his response:

the ifbb rules are only applicable to those that become undesirable at any given time for any given reason.

the law is only applicable to those that become undesirable at any given time for any given reason. people who use steroids are undesirable at this particular time and prostitutes provide a meaningful service to politicians.

That is a clever and funny post. Once again , on  personal level, I believe that personal drug use or prostitution should be LEGAL and up to the individual to decide what to do. This is from a guy who doesn't even drink or smake anything and never had any interest in drug use or going to ho's. But, I don't think it should be me or the GOV that decides who does.  I would applaud the IFBB if they were to get real and lobby congress to pass some positive steroid legislation. If they have no interest in that, then drug test to help the pro bodybuilders stay legal and healthy.

[Van_Bilderass]

I would applaud the IFBB if they were to get real and lobby congress to pass some positive steroid legislation. If they have no interest in that, then drug test to help the pro bodybuilders stay legal and healthy.

Lobbying for positive drug legislation would bring unwanted attention to the IFBB. And here we have an organization where Ben Weider has tried to get bodybuilding into the Olympics, has instituted drug testing in the World Champs, supposedly supports the WADA code, WADA which not only fights against doping in sports but pushes for stricter drug laws concerning steroids in society in general. The current IFBB admin isn't going to do a 180 on this issue.

Testing does nothing positive like I said before. If it's effective the athletes won't stay and fan interest will drop. I see nothing positive about drug testing for window dressing purposes where a few undesirable athletes get burned. Testing for health purposes? A lot of good that did in the case of diuretics. Kamali and other athletes are now worried what the unknown diuretic concoctions they took may have done to their health.

[KillerMonk]

If your a Pro at 300 pounds 10% BF, like Ronnie Coleman did on Jay Leno claim to be natural, Deny everything to your Deathbed.

No Drugs No ProBB

[Dreadlord]

How about retired pros like Nasser who juice to satisfy their own vanity? Isn't it insane to continue to tske gear even in reduced amounts after you have retired? Why would you continue to put your health at risk just for a the sake of your own ego? In nassers case he has had multiple surgical operations and health complications and will probably have more visits to the cutting table in the future. Its refreshing to hear people like Jay cutler remark that once the competing days are done they no longer want to hold on to their size just to satisfy some casual fan.

[BEAST 8692]

Lobbying for positive drug legislation would bring unwanted attention to the IFBB. And here we have an organization where Ben Weider has tried to get bodybuilding into the Olympics, has instituted drug testing in the World Champs, supposedly supports the WADA code, WADA which not only fights against doping in sports but pushes for stricter drug laws concerning steroids in society in general. The current IFBB admin isn't going to do a 180 on this issue.Testing does nothing positive like I said before. If it's effective the athletes won't stay and fan interest will drop. I see nothing positive about drug testing for window dressing purposes where a few undesirable athletes get burned. Testing for health purposes? A lot of good that did in the case of diuretics. Kamali and other athletes are now worried what the unknown diuretic concoctions they took may have done to their health.

excellent point and i would only add to that by mentioning the very pertinent point that the directors of the ifbb have made their fortune on the back of these drug assisted bbers under the intentional delusion that their supplements created these bodies and insisting that said supplements were a credible and safe alternative (to anabolic drugs). their public stance has always been that anabolic steroids are harmful to health and are not necessary to be competitive.

to now lobby congress (where they indeed have powerful connections) would run contrary to their aforementioned status and risk opening up a can of worms that would harm the weider corporation.

 

[HowieW]

excellent point and i would only add to that by mentioning the very pertinent point that the directors of the ifbb have made their fortune on the back of these drug assisted bbers under the intentional delusion that their supplements created these bodies and insisting that said supplements were a credible and safe alternative (to anabolic drugs). their public stance has always been that anabolic steroids are harmful to health and are not necessary to be competitive.

to now lobby congress (where they indeed have powerful connections) would run contrary to their aforementioned status and risk opening up a can of worms that would harm the weider corporation.

 

Excellent post and thoughts here. This post really cuts to the heart of the matter.

[Red Hook]

IFBB = all drugs

no one is going to pay to see swim meet, so by implication BBs have to break the law in order to attract attention


Howie..

if all things exist with in the universe, how can it expand? where is it expanding to?

why are you allocating brain power to muscle men in thongs, there are more complex issues to ponder

like how can we improve the effectiveness of the artificial pussy

[HowieW]

IFBB = all drugs

no one is going to pay to see swim meet, so by implication BBs have to break the law in order to attract attention


Howie..

if all things exist with in the universe, how can it expand? where is it expanding to?

The expansion of the universe is best prven by the red shifting ( visible star light shifting to the red end of light spectrum) , which means due to the Dopler shift, we are seeing lights waves get longer and thus shift in color from most stars and galaxys . Why this is? Hmmmmm.

Right now, the only way for a guy to have any chance for a career as a pro is to do the extra drugs , which in most cases breaks the federal drug laws.This policy is fine for us fans as we see great (enhanced) physiques on stage. Yes, I am MORE impressed and wowed by a drugged pro or national level physique.
It is fine for the IFBB and show promoters, etc. The only one that really gets hurt in the long run, is the hardcore, elite level bodybuilder. It is the individual bodybuilder that takes all the health and legal risks.
I simply want a firm policy in place that ends required drug use as ameans to make it in bodybuilding.
It is this POLICY that I am against, not bodybuilders doing what they have to, under the current system to win.
I also know that while we would see smaller guys on stage, they would still look a lot more impressive than swimmers. Drugs make a difference, but they don't perform miracles. If they did, we would have a lot more guys running around with top 10 Olympia level physiques....we don't.

[Vince B]

In the beginning there were no drugs. Then various promoters thought up impressive names for bodybuilding contests and eventually Mr Universe was created. Somehow this was eclipsed by Mr Olympia which was suppose to be a higher contest. Winners of these contests transcended ordinary mortals and became Mr Somebody or other.

When guys coveted these titles and exposure in magazines it wasn't long before rival organizations were competing for competitors. In America there was the AAU holding Mr America and a few other shows. The IFBB took decades before their shows were considered the best. In the meantime, NABBA continued to stage the Mr Universe contest in England. Up until the late 1960s that was still the top show. The Mr Olympia eventually became the top contest for bodybuilders. The WBBG staged contests but these never had the status of the top IFBB shows.

When Bob Hoffman died the AAU shows lost their main supporter and eventually the AAU divorced itself from running bodybuilding shows. Something similar happened in Europe when Oscar Heidenstam died because NABBA lost some of its status.

What cannot be denied is that there is an ongoing competition for the competitors. The IFBB is worried that if they do drug testing that all the best competitors will go elsewhere. That is the bottom line and explains why no testing is done at the professional level. Joe and Ben staked their success on how well they knew bodybuilders. So what we find is what we deserve. The competitors have to do whatever is necessary to win a show and one thing no one can afford is be banned from competing. The other bodybuilders will not support independence because everyone moves up a notch when guys like Lee Priest get banned.

Today we have a sad state of affairs that even a Terminator cannot solve. Muscleheads have to use plenty of drugs, according to the many experts out there, to compete as professionals. How this remains true in a society where those drugs are considered illegal is a mystery. How a politician can promote a contest without having a clean show is something of back-room decisions.