Author Topic: Supreme Court starts today on Heller case/2A Rights  (Read 2300 times)

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Supreme Court starts today on Heller case/2A Rights
« on: March 18, 2008, 09:01:08 AM »
Today is the day they start to hear arguments on the Heller case. the most important case before the Supreme Court for 2A Rights in almost 100 years. Here's my prediction: SCOTUS will rule that the Second Amend is indeed an individual right (vs a collective right) but that does not mean the government and the states can't impose "reasonable" restrictions on guns.

They will not define exactly what "reasonable" is which allows them to stay out of the much tougher debate. So, it will be a win for pro 2A supporters, but not a slam dunk they might think it will be.

I suspect they will rule that a total ban on handguns (which is essentially what exists in DC and why this case is being seen) is not "reasonable" regulation of guns, and that will set the stage for other battle regarding what is "reasonable" restrictions on 2A Rights.

That's my predictions.
________________________ __________
WASHINGTON (AFP) — The US Supreme Court will Tuesday begin weighing an individual's right to bear arms against a community's right to restrict gun ownership for public safety, an emotional issue that has long divided Americans.

The conservative-leaning court's first decision on gun ownership in almost 70 years is expected to have a far reaching impact on US gun control laws, experts say.

Since 1939, the high court has not ruled on the interpretation of the second amendment of the US constitution, which states: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

At the center of the case is the nation's capital city, Washington DC, which has some of the toughest gun control laws in the country: private ownership of handguns is banned, and rifles or shotguns must be kept in homes disassembled or under a trigger lock.

Washington government officials say the ban, instituted in 1976, is necessary to keep street violence and murder rates down, and that the second amendment protects gun rights for people associated with militias, not individuals.

"I'm confident in our case, and our continued ability to protect residents from gun violence," said Mayor Adrian Fenty upon filing his legal team's brief earlier this month.

Lawyers for the plaintiffs in the case, District of Columbia vs. Heller, first argued in 2003 that the DC gun ban violates its citizens' second amendment rights.

Alan Gura, the lead attorney for the plaintiff, questioned the anti-crime impact of the city's laws, saying they have "accomplished nothing except to prevent law-abiding citizens from exercising their constitutional right to keep and bear arms."

Interest in the case, originally brought by a federal building guard who carries a handgun on duty and wanted to keep it at home for self-defense, has been steadily building.

There has been a rash of "friend of the court" amicus briefs filed on both sides. These allow interested parties who are not directly related to the case to argue their positions.

Supporters of gun rights include groups as varied as Pink Pistols and Gays and Lesbians for Individual Liberty, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, 126 Women State Legislatures, and the powerful gun lobby, the National Rifle Association.

"More anti-gay hate crimes occur in the home than in any other location," the Pink Pistols said in their brief, which says guns should be allowed in homes for self-defense purposes.

On the other side, law enforcement groups, the American Bar Association, US mayors and coalitions against domestic violence argue that easy access to handguns causes murder rates to rise.

"Women are killed by intimate partners -- husbands, lovers, ex-husbands or ex-lovers -- more often than by any other category of killer," said a brief by the National Network to End Domestic Violence, adding that such killings were the leading cause of death for African-American women aged 15-45.

The US government itself is divided on the issue with the Justice Department taking the side of law enforcement, and Vice President Dick Cheney signing onto a brief filed by some lawmakers that calls for the DC ban to be overturned.

The Republican candidate for the November presidential election, Arizona Senator John McCain, also signed the brief, while Democratic party hopefuls Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have not.

Gun rights advocates believe that momentum is in their favor.

"The overwhelming weight of the evidence and opinion is that the right of the people to keep and bear arms is an individual right," said Randy Barnett, legal expert at Georgetown University.

If the conservative-leaning high court rules that the right laid out in the constitution is an individual one, the American Bar Association predicts a far-reaching effect on the ability of governments to restrict gun carrying among citizens.

"Separating the right to bear arms from the maintenance of a well-regulated militia would cast doubt on the authority of state and local governments to regulate firearms," the ABA said.

The Supreme Court last took up the issue in 1939, but its ruling on a case involving alleged bank robbers and registration of certain firearms did not directly address the question of the individual versus collective right to bear arms.

A decision in the current case is not expected until June.

- http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...zLYze5m5z012iw
- http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...309661,00.html

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Re: Supreme Court starts today on Heller case/2A Rights
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2008, 02:44:47 PM »
This has sort of flown under the radar.  Two huge cases now:  capital punishment and guns.  Each could have a pretty big impact on the election. 

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Re: Supreme Court starts today on Heller case/2A Rights
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2008, 02:54:19 PM »
This has sort of flown under the radar.  Two huge cases now:  capital punishment and guns.  Each could have a pretty big impact on the election. 
How will it have an impact on the election?  And I've never heard where you stand on the issue?

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Re: Supreme Court starts today on Heller case/2A Rights
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2008, 02:55:39 PM »
How will it have an impact on the election?  And I've never heard where you stand on the issue?

He'll coincidentally form an opinion as soon as the white house issues their position on it ;)

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Re: Supreme Court starts today on Heller case/2A Rights
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2008, 03:04:16 PM »
He'll coincidentally form an opinion as soon as the white house issues their position on it ;)
That may not help... Bush has sided againt the issue and Cheney for. :D  No kidding...

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Re: Supreme Court starts today on Heller case/2A Rights
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2008, 03:08:20 PM »
while we're on this issue, I will point out that one of the most disgusting violations of the 2nd happend under Bush.  I will never forgive the fact that they went around and disarmed people in the Katrina aftermath... They had no right and I think it's dusgusting.  Just about every person I know in my part of the country has sworn an oath that the day they come to collect guns will be the last stand.  Same here, the day they decide to door to door this neighborhood will be my last day... or not...

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Re: Supreme Court starts today on Heller case/2A Rights
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2008, 03:11:51 PM »
How will it have an impact on the election?  And I've never heard where you stand on the issue?

Depends on the results.  If the supremes vote 5-4 to ban capital punishment, with a liberal being the swing vote, you better believe this will be an issue in November.  Same goes for gun ownership:  a 5-4 decision banning private gun ownership, with a liberal swing voter would impact the election.

My stand on gun ownership is twofold:

1.  No crackpot who believes the United States government faked the moon landing should be allowed anywhere near a gun.  

2.  I support the right of private citizens to own guns, subject to reasonable restrictions (criminal convictions, etc.).  I actually like the concept of treating them like driver's licenses and making people learn how to use them before being able to purchase them.

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Re: Supreme Court starts today on Heller case/2A Rights
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2008, 03:31:03 PM »
Depends on the results.  If the supremes vote 5-4 to ban capital punishment, with a liberal being the swing vote, you better believe this will be an issue in November.  Same goes for gun ownership:  a 5-4 decision banning private gun ownership, with a liberal swing voter would impact the election.

My stand on gun ownership is twofold:

1.  No crackpot who believes the United States government faked the moon landing should be allowed anywhere near a gun.  

2.  I support the right of private citizens to own guns, subject to reasonable restrictions (criminal convictions, etc.).  I actually like the concept of treating them like driver's licenses and making people learn how to use them before being able to purchase them.
Faked moon landing?  Can we have a serious reply to number 1. :)  I don't believe the moonlanding was faked but I've listened to the main people putting forth the work on that idea and they don't strike me in the least as uncapable of responsibly using a firearm.

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Re: Supreme Court starts today on Heller case/2A Rights
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2008, 03:34:12 PM »
berserker,

your republican moderator supports suspension of the 2nd amendment for those who exercise the 1st amendment.

I propose you replace with a republican who is NOT in favor of banning the second amendment.

Otherwise, you now have two liberals and a moderate for your moderators.  An imbalance has just been proven by BB's own words.

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Re: Supreme Court starts today on Heller case/2A Rights
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2008, 03:36:17 PM »
Faked moon landing?  Can we have a serious reply to number 1. :)  I don't believe the moonlanding was faked but I've listened to the main people putting forth the work on that idea and they don't strike me in the least as uncapable of responsibly using a firearm.

Says you.  Crazy people should not own guns.   :)

You got my serious reply in paragraph number 2. 

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Re: Supreme Court starts today on Heller case/2A Rights
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2008, 03:37:53 PM »
1.  With the crime rates as they are now, the firearm is often seen and blamed as the culprit.  The recent high profile school shootings only reinforce the notion that people want more gun laws.  In Columbine, 52 gun laws were broken.  Would one or two more have made a difference?  Professor Lott at the University of Chicago has written article after article that more gun restrictions does not lead to more crime.

2.  I oppose the death penalty.  I do not believe that Man should have the power of life or death over another when he is in complete control of the former(such as Death Row inmates).  The death penalty is an abboration on modern, civilized society.  

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Re: Supreme Court starts today on Heller case/2A Rights
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2008, 04:17:56 PM »
This has sort of flown under the radar.

Under the radar? I have been hearing and reading about it for months myself. NPR seems to have dedicated the entire day to this Heller case. I'm sure the lame local 10 Oclocks news make little mention, but that's because they consider Britneys latest melt down more important...SCOTUS will rule as narrow as they can on this case to avoid all the additional issues that comes with a decision of it being an individual right vs a collective one, but it will still set a standard for future cases in the lower courts. I hope the people at the Brady bunch are crapping their pants over this.  ;D

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Re: Supreme Court starts today on Heller case/2A Rights
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2008, 04:36:41 PM »
Under the radar? I have been hearing and reading about it for months myself. NPR seems to have dedicated the entire day to this Heller case. I'm sure the lame local 10 Oclocks news make little mention, but that's because they consider Britneys latest melt down more important...SCOTUS will rule as narrow as they can on this case to avoid all the additional issues that comes with a decision of it being an individual right vs a collective one, but it will still set a standard for future cases in the lower courts. I hope the people at the Brady bunch are crapping their pants over this.  ;D

I've heard and read about it too, but it hasn't been a major story in most (mainstream) outlets.  NPR does a good job. 

I agree with you that the supremes will probably try and make their ruling as narrow as possible. 

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Re: Supreme Court starts today on Heller case/2A Rights
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2008, 04:39:00 PM »
berserker,

your republican moderator supports suspension of the 2nd amendment for those who exercise the 1st amendment.

I propose you replace with a republican who is NOT in favor of banning the second amendment.

Otherwise, you now have two liberals and a moderate for your moderators.  An imbalance has just been proven by BB's own words.

Berserker,

You have two liberals moderators.  The republican/conservative mindset is no longer represented.

Your far-right moderator voted for Clinton and supports gun control.  Need I say more?