What Obama *should've* said

[240 is Back]

family is over... a relative was talking about obama... she's a completely non-political person that I rarely talk to... she said "obama hates white people, but i'm voting for him because he'll give my kids free insurance, and the other guy wants to bomb iran". lol...

[Benny B]

family is over... a relative was talking about obama... she's a completely non-political person that I rarely talk to... she said "obama hates white people, but i'm voting for him because he'll give my kids free insurance, and the other guy wants to bomb iran". lol...

Your relative thinks Obama hates his own mother?

[Dos Equis]

There is a big difference between being a racist (which I dispise as much as anything) and not agreeing with a minority activist like Rev Wright. 

Many of us acknowledge the wrongs of the past and can understand the anger surrounding this but don't excuse continued diversive and hateful preaching to correct or address those wrongs at this time.  Particularly the far out accusations he preached against our government, which got support from his congregation.  That is irresponsible and ignorant for a leader and should NOT get a pass!  Its counterproductive, creates continued anger on both sides and IMO has held part of the black community back.  If you look at England, people blend much better and there aren't issues like this between blacks and whites.  The vast majority blend and don't hold these deep historical grudges.  There is no constant struggle like this.  Slavery certainly f'ed up this nation, but other nations have move on and overcome.  People like Rev Wright contribute to the continued racial divide that should have mended. 

I am glad Barack pulled away from Wrights comments, that was appropriate, but its hard to buy that he doesn't believe some of it with the relationship they had.

Brave people are people like Bill Cosby, who had a universal message.  Its ashame he was criticized by many in the black community.  He has been one of the biggest financial supporters of black education and because some didn't like the straight talk and wake up call he was giving, they threw him under the bridge.  Bill had a good message that was applicable to all families.

Good points. 

I didn't care for Cosby's rant much.  He pretty much spoke the truth, but he's a billionaire with a PhD.  Very easy for him to throw stones at people who might be in a cycle of poverty. 

On an unrelated note, I loved his line when being interviewed once about the relationship between happiness and money.  He said (paraphrasing) I've been rich and I've been poor, and I'd rather be rich. 

[Bindare_Dundat]

Your relative thinks Obama hates his own mother?

Didn't Obama call his mother a "typical white person" and then went on about how she made discriminatory remarks regarding blacks?

[Bindare_Dundat]

Good points. 

I didn't care for Cosby's rant much.  He pretty much spoke the truth, but he's a billionaire with a PhD.  Very easy for him to throw stones at people who might be in a cycle of poverty. 

On an unrelated note, I loved his line when being interviewed once about the relationship between happiness and money.  He said (paraphrasing) I've been rich and I've been poor, and I'd rather be rich. 

No one  handed him those  accomplishments on a silver platter. He worked hard for everything he has and suffered through the same prejudices, I think he has every right to be critical.

[Dos Equis]

No one  handed him those  accomplishments on a silver platter. He worked hard for everything he has and suffered through the same prejudices, I think he has every right to be critical.

True.  I have a problem with his delivery more than anything else. 

I think many people who have seen things like "the projects" or other very poor communities understand what a vicious cycle poverty can be.  Kids in that environment are at an extreme disadvantage.  Their parents are often uneducated, they often don't have good role models, their schools suck.  Have you ever visited an elementary school in a poor community?  Some of the conditions are just appalling.  Anyone who works hard can still get out of that environment, but it's much harder for them than someone whose parents have PhDs and who went to the best and most expensive school in the state (Obama).

This doesn't excuse anyone's bad behavior and at the end of the day we're all responsible for our own conduct and our own success or failure, but there is no question that environment plays a heavy role in the outcome.  With that backdrop, I have a problem with someone like Cosby simply saying, in so many words, "what the heck is your problem, why aren't you successful like me"?   

[Benny B]

Didn't Obama call his mother a "typical white person" and then went on about how she made discriminatory remarks regarding blacks?

He was referring to his grandmother, not his mother. And I don't think that means he doesn't love his grandparents. They raised him. You're implying that he "hates" half of his family...the side of his family Obama was closest to growing up. He never really knew his father and did not visit Kenya until he was an adult.

I have had disagreements with my parents, but I don't love them any less.

It cracks me up about how quick white folks (men in particular) are so quick to jump on any hint of "hate for white people" within black Americans, yet don't speak out about the hatred within your own community. It must be a  reverse psychology thing to deal with white guilt.  You'd think there were just as many black slaveholders that enslaved white people and destroyed families by ripping apart children from their mothers...just as many blacks controlling all the levers of power after slavery "technically" was abolished...instituted just as many Jim Crow laws that treated white people like shit and forced them to go to crappy schools and have to enter through the back door of stores and restaurants...humiliated white folks by making them sit on the back of the bus and drink from separate water fountains...firebombed just as many white churches killing innocent children...unleashed water hoses on white men, women, and children demonstrating peacefully for equal rights under the law...

Yeah man, hopefully one day white men will be able to speak out like Rev. Wright about all the injustices they have experienced in America too. 

[Bindare_Dundat]

He was referring to his grandmother, not his mother. And I don't think that means he doesn't love his grandparents. They raised him. You're implying that he "hates" half of his family...the side of his family Obama was closest to growing up. He never really knew his father and did not visit Kenya until he was an adult.

I have had disagreements with my parents, but I don't love them any less.

It cracks me up about how quick white folks (men in particular) are so quick to jump on any hint of "hate for white people" within black Americans, yet don't speak out about the hatred within your own community. It must be a  reverse psychology thing to deal with white guilt.  You'd think there were just as many black slaveholders that enslaved white people and destroyed families by ripping apart children from their mothers...just as many blacks controlling all the levers of power after slavery "technically" was abolished...instituted just as many Jim Crow laws that treated white people like shit and forced them to go to crappy schools and have to enter through the back door of stores and restaurants...humiliated white folks by making them sit on the back of the bus and drink from separate water fountains...firebombed just as many white churches killing innocent children...unleashed water hoses on white men, women, and children demonstrating peacefully for equal rights under the law...

Yeah man, hopefully one day white men will be able to speak out like Rev. Wright about all the injustices they have experienced in America too. 

Your man can do no wrong, huh? Feel free to vote for a person that particpates at a racist church if it makes you feel better. 

[calmus]

Your man can do no wrong, huh? Feel free to vote for a person that particpates at a racist church if it makes you feel better. 

Oh, I'm going to do it with great joy. 

[G o a t b o y]

It must be a  reverse psychology thing to deal with white guilt.  You'd think there were just as many black slaveholders that enslaved white people and destroyed families by ripping apart children from their mothers...

No living black has ever been a slave.  Slavery ended 140 years ago and it's been over 40 years since the civil rights movement.  I'm sick and fucking tired of them using slavery as a crutch and an excuse to throw stones at me because of the color of my skin. 


And they can shove that "white guilt" shit right up their asses.  My ancestors were back in Germany when slavery was going on in the US.  I'm guilty of nothing.

[JOHN MATRIX]

could you imagine the HAG hillary or mccain talking about the stuff he did? saying what he did? knowing the potential risks to his candidacy? he is the best most genuine person left, the only option left for a real change of pace, the only one who isnt an aristocrat saying scripted lines who will cut throats for a lead in the polls, this is the best option for the american people...
if people cant see through hillary's fake facade and vote one of the others in, they deserve what they have coming to them,just like they fckin deserve the consequences for voting Bush in. twice.

[Bindare_Dundat]

could you imagine the HAG hillary or mccain talking about the stuff he did? saying what he did? knowing the potential risks to his candidacy? he is the best most genuine person left, the only option left for a real change of pace, the only one who isnt an aristocrat saying scripted lines who will cut throats for a lead in the polls, this is the best option for the american people...
if people cant see through hillary's fake facade and vote one of the others in, they deserve what they have coming to them,just like they fckin deserve the consequences for voting Bush in. twice.

Pssst. All three suck ass.

[24KT]

I'm not going to list his military, government, and private sector experience.  You can look that up yourself.  Start with "My American Journey." 

What you'll find in his auto, evaluating his record, and assessing him as a person is a very experienced, intelligent, diligent, articulate, bright man of integrity and faith.  I don't think there is a man or woman in the country with his resume and intangibles.

Condi is close.   

I'd love to see a Powell/Rice or Powell/Linda Lingle ticket.  I'd be excited about either one. 

In my opinion, intelligent men do not endorse disastrous and suicidal economic or foreign policies.
In my opinion, diligent, articulate men do not make errors about enemies existing where they do not. 5 x's in a row.
In my opinion, bright men of integrity & faith do not flip flop on the issue of torture or joke about bombing countries.

In my opinion, I now believe I know what he got in exchange for supporting Bush on the torture issue.

[240 is Back]

In my opinion, intelligent men do not endorse disastrous and suicidal economic or foreign policies.
In my opinion, diligent, articulate men do not make errors about enemies existing where they do not. 5 x's in a row.
In my opinion, bright men of integrity & faith do not flip flop on the issue of torture or joke about bombing countries.

I doubt many people here will debate you on these facts, which is sad.  McCain has done all of these things, and people will overlook them because Obama's pastor is an idiot.  They care more about owning a guy who said things they don't like, than the entire economy.  Odd.

[shootfighter1]

Beachbum, I agree with you.  Thats why I believe some of our tax dollars should go to improving opportunities, education and mentoring programs in inner city schools (but there needs to be ways to validade effectiveness, handouts do not work to change motivation, self pride, and work ethic).  I totally agree that environment is so important when you are young.  But the epidemic of broken homes in the poor and black communities must be improved for these things to help most.  The cycle of poor parenting, broken families, drug abuse, apathy, and fatherless homes must be addressed.  Thats what bill cosby was trying to address.  Its not just a black thing, its a class based issue.
A lot of the change has to come from the inside first.

If any of you are grouping me with the few racist posts or undertones we see here, please don't.  I am too intelligent and too caring for that garbage.  My aim is to debate (and learn) how best to address some of these issues.  As usual, neither the far right or far left is right. 
I have a great mix of friends and am the only white dude in our band, which plays classic R&B, funk and classic rock...all those guys are like my brothers & we've played together for several years.  They are also hard working guys who find a lot of fault with the culture of the younger generation, particularly the influence of rap, and the problem broken families has had on our youth.

[24KT]

I doubt many people here will debate you on these facts, which is sad.  McCain has done all of these things, and people will overlook them because Obama's pastor is an idiot.  They care more about owning a guy who said things they don't like, than the entire economy.  Odd.

The kicker is, ...Obama is getting blamed for something he didn't even say.   

[Tre]

I can't believe you feel like you feel you can better articulate how this manner should have been handled better than Obama, Tre. That speech will go down as one of the greatest ever delivered by a politician on the issue of race and politics in America.

I have to disagree. 

I didn't think it was right for him to throw his grandmother under the bus. 

The reason why my approach to this would've been better than what he and his campaign chose is that my position is rooted in common sense.  Race is not the reason that oil prices have quadrupled in the last 7 years nor is it the cause of the foreclosure epidemic.  One could reasonably argue that there is a racist element to our military campaign in Iraq, but at the root of that conversation is oil lust and nepotism. 

I'm not saying that I'm against having this conversation at all, I just feel that a Presidential candidate needs to be talking about the most pertinent issues facing the country today.  If this was 1964, yes, absolutely, let's talk about race.  But this is 2008 - our lives are bigger now and our day-to-day concerns are different. 

We're a long way off from November, but if by chance he is elected President, he's going to be asked 'how it feels' to be the first Black (or African-American) President of the United States, and if he's smart, he'll simply say that it feels great to know that the nation feels confident enough in him to put the leadership in his hands and he will thank every American for working so hard to give him the opportunity to lead us into the next decade. 

Keep the focus on America as the land where hard work can lead to great opportunities and he should be fine.  Again, that's looking ahead a bit, but that should've been the general tone of any response from his campaign to the remarks by Geraldine Ferraro and others who've made similar statements about Obama.

[Tre]

I don't think so.  I'm still of the opinion that, for ingrained sociological reasons, a black man or a woman cannot win a presidential election in this country in 2008.

I agree, and this is the opinion I've expressed since Day One, but once I realized how serious the Dems were about getting Clinton back into the White House, I actually became quite fearful of this very real possibility - that they might win (or steal) another election.   

The Clintons are headed to a double-digit win in Pennsylvania unless the urbanites - White, Black, Jewish, Asian, Latino, and other - turn out in full force to support Obama, because the western region of the state will go heavily for the White candidate.  Now, that won't carry much weight in November (when that same region will support McCain), but could very well swing many of the superdelegates in June.   

There are many regions of the country that would rather see an all-White ballot, even if there's a woman on half, than one that is all-male if one half happens to be non-White.   

At this point, in the interest of protecting America as best we can, I need all good people to stand in opposition to the Clinton regime.  They must not be allowed to regain the White House.

[240 is Back]

lol at race.... such a distraction issue hahahahaha

next, let's spend 8 weeks talking about gay marriage.

i love how the little things take up so much of our thoughts.

in the meantime, 2 big wars entering 5th and 7th years.... borrowing $12 bil a week... dollar in the shitter...



and all we can talk about is some nutty pastor who said something we don't understand about HIV.

[Dos Equis]

In my opinion, intelligent men do not endorse disastrous and suicidal economic or foreign policies.
In my opinion, diligent, articulate men do not make errors about enemies existing where they do not. 5 x's in a row.
In my opinion, bright men of integrity & faith do not flip flop on the issue of torture or joke about bombing countries.

In my opinion, I now believe I know what he got in exchange for supporting Bush on the torture issue.

The issue was Colin Powell. 

[Tre]

The issue was Colin Powell. 

Hold on - is Jaguar arguing that Colin Powell is NOT the greatest American leader of this generation?? 

[Dos Equis]

Beachbum, I agree with you.  Thats why I believe some of our tax dollars should go to improving opportunities, education and mentoring programs in inner city schools (but there needs to be ways to validade effectiveness, handouts do not work to change motivation, self pride, and work ethic).  I totally agree that environment is so important when you are young.  But the epidemic of broken homes in the poor and black communities must be improved for these things to help most.  The cycle of poor parenting, broken families, drug abuse, apathy, and fatherless homes must be addressed.  Thats what bill cosby was trying to address.  Its not just a black thing, its a class based issue.
A lot of the change has to come from the inside first.

If any of you are grouping me with the few racist posts or undertones we see here, please don't.  I am too intelligent and too caring for that garbage.  My aim is to debate (and learn) how best to address some of these issues.  As usual, neither the far right or far left is right. 
I have a great mix of friends and am the only white dude in our band, which plays classic R&B, funk and classic rock...all those guys are like my brothers & we've played together for several years.  They are also hard working guys who find a lot of fault with the culture of the younger generation, particularly the influence of rap, and the problem broken families has had on our youth.

I agree (again).  Just a couple points:

I think these problems are entirely class-based and not race-based.  I've seen poor communities of different ethnic groups and they're pretty much the same and have the same kinds of problems.  The kids from these environments have the same disadvantages.  

You do not need to justify any comments you make on race issues.  There will always be a dummy or two who will accuse you of being a racist when you engage in frank discussions about race.  

[Benny B]

No living black has ever been a slave.  Slavery ended 140 years ago and it's been over 40 years since the civil rights movement.  I'm sick and fucking tired of them using slavery as a crutch and an excuse to throw stones at me because of the color of my skin. 


And they can shove that "white guilt" shit right up their asses.  My ancestors were back in Germany when slavery was going on in the US.  I'm guilty of nothing.

I would expect nothing less than anger from you, as you are on record as believing blacks are genetically inferior to whites. With that type of superiority complex, your opinion means nothing to me. You can take your "superiority complex" and shove it up your asshole along with the gerbils, strapons and every item you have shoved up your stinkhole. 

No living black person in America has been a slave, but every living black person has been a victim of some form of racism and discrimination due to the legacy of slavery.   

You have no reason to feel "guilty" as a white person unless you choose to. I never said you had to feel that way, I simply stated that the hypersensitive reaction some show when race is brought up may have to do with guilt. No one can force you to accept your privilege of being white in America. That is your choice to make.

Your ancestors were in Germany during "legal" slavery, so perhaps that is why your knowledge of American history is sorely lacking. Were some of your family members proud members of the Third Reich? American slavery continued in another form long after the Emancipation Proclamation, jackass. Sharecropping and the laws that went along with it during Reconstruction did little to change the situation for black Americans.

And with the end of the Civil Rights movement it isn't like everything became and just and fair the day after Dr. King was shot. There were/are still plenty of assholes like you in the walls of power...from Washington to Wall Street. That is the world from which people like Rev. Wright and came from and experienced.

I believe Rev. Wright is a Marine veteran. You think a man of his education and service does not have a right to express some righteous indignation at the way his people have been treated? That he could come back from military service and be treated like a third class citizen? Men of his generation feel they have a duty to let those younger know the evil America perpetrated for centuries, so that as the Jewish community says...NEVER AGAIN. And that younger blacks don't get hoodwinked and bamboozled by some the same old tricks of the past.

Oh yeah, and Goatboy...eat a dick. 

[Benny B]

Pssst. All three suck ass.

Leave the country or kill yourself, the Ron Paul candidacy is over. 

[Dos Equis]

Hold on - is Jaguar arguing that Colin Powell is NOT the greatest American leader of this generation?? 

Apparently.  Though when she asked why Powell was the most qualified man in America to president, and I responded, she then gave opinions about McCain.  I'm not sure she knows what she is arguing.