What Obama *should've* said

[24KT]

The issue was Colin Powell. 

Colin Powell isn't running for President against Barack Obama. You say these are the qualities you believe make one qualified to be president. I'm pointing out just a few of the reasons why McCain should not be put in that position.

[Benny B]

I have to disagree. 

I didn't think it was right for him to throw his grandmother under the bus.  
The reason why my approach to this would've been better than what he and his campaign chose is that my position is rooted in common sense.  Race is not the reason that oil prices have quadrupled in the last 7 years nor is it the cause of the foreclosure epidemic.  One could reasonably argue that there is a racist element to our military campaign in Iraq, but at the root of that conversation is oil lust and nepotism. 

I'm not saying that I'm against having this conversation at all, I just feel that a Presidential candidate needs to be talking about the most pertinent issues facing the country today.  If this was 1964, yes, absolutely, let's talk about race.  But this is 2008 - our lives are bigger now and our day-to-day concerns are different. 

We're a long way off from November, but if by chance he is elected President, he's going to be asked 'how it feels' to be the first Black (or African-American) President of the United States, and if he's smart, he'll simply say that it feels great to know that the nation feels confident enough in him to put the leadership in his hands and he will thank every American for working so hard to give him the opportunity to lead us into the next decade. 

Keep the focus on America as the land where hard work can lead to great opportunities and he should be fine.  Again, that's looking ahead a bit, but that should've been the general tone of any response from his campaign to the remarks by Geraldine Ferraro and others who've made similar statements about Obama.

He didn't "throw his grandmother under the bus".n How FIXED FOX News of you. It was a point to personalize the speech and express that he knows from personal experience how both sides, black and white, can sometimes talk about one another behind closed doors.

Nice of you to think that in 2008 race no longer needs to be an issue, but Obama is the only black Senator in the U.S. Senate and the first serious black candidate for president for a reason.

Glad to see you believe you have more "common sense" than Obama and his campaign staff, but with the delegate lead and victories in over 25 states I think he is doing ok without your assistance.   SUPERDELEGATE Gov. Bill Richardson stated that Obama's speech was one of the major tipping points that made him give his official endorsement. He said it was a uniting speech, not a divisive one.

Obama made the speech, and it was a landmark one that will go down in history. However, the next day he gave a major foreign policy speech and has moved on. It's not like he's going to give a "race speech" every week.

[24KT]

SUPERDELEGATE Gov. Bill Richardson stated that Obama's speech was one of the major tipping points that made him give his official endorsement. He said it was a uniting speech, not a divisive one.

That's what did it for me as well. The fact that he tackled the race issue, but also how well he was able to articulate the positions in a divided America. His understanding of the Black perspective in my mind was a given. He's lived it his whole life, ...but it was his insightful and compassionate articulation of the resentments of white Americans (vis-a-vis affirmative action) ...especially those born post civil rights era that said to me "This is the man for the job!"

Obama made the speech, and it was a landmark one that will go down in history. However, the next day he gave a major foreign policy speech and has moved on.

 

Ya I noticed that too in a big way. It looks like his focus has turned away from Hilary and onto McCain. It's almost as if he sees Hilary as a non issue at this point.

If this was 1964, yes, absolutely, let's talk about race.  But this is 2008 - our lives are bigger now and our day-to-day concerns are different.

Tre, I have to disagree with you there. It is 2008, and Obama's life is bigger now, your life is bigger now, my life is bigger now, Oprah's life is bigger now, and the lives of thousands of Black families across the USA are bigger now, and our day-to-day concerns are quite different, ...HOWEVER, there are still countless thousands who lives are still lanquishing behind as a direct result of the neglect that was rooted in racism. It is no accident that there are countless thousands living in the "projects".  There is a cycle that has perpetuated and that must stop, 30 yrs of AA doesn't wipe out a 600 yr old institution, ...and until real education and opportunity is provided to all children, given the state of current economic policies, those "projects" or pockets of urban blight are gonna soon take on a whole new suburban look to them.

[The ChemistV2]

I agree (again).  Just a couple points:

I think these problems are entirely class-based and not race-based.  I've seen poor communities of different ethnic groups and they're pretty much the same and have the same kinds of problems.  The kids from these environments have the same disadvantages.  

You do not need to justify any comments you make on race issues.  There will always be a dummy or two who will accuse you of being a racist when you engage in frank discussions about race.  

Can't agree entirely with you there. That's a nice idealistic attitude, but it far from reality. If your argument were correct, we would see so called "White Trash" start jumping out of their trailers, joining gangs and begin to kill each other in record numbers. as in the Black community. If you look at the murder rate statistics, violent crime incarceration rates, you'll see a racial discrepancy. Even the one's that are sucessful in athletics and in the music industry still have a sizable portion committing violent crimes. Obviously not just an economic situation.

[Dos Equis]

Can't agree entirely with you there. That's a nice idealistic attitude, but it far from reality. If your argument were correct, we would see so called "White Trash" start jumping out of their trailers, joining gangs and begin to kill each other in record numbers. as in the Black community. If you look at the murder rate statistics, violent crime incarceration rates, you'll see a racial discrepancy. Even the one's that are sucessful in athletics and in the music industry still have a sizable portion committing violent crimes. Obviously not just an economic situation.

We have discussed race-based crime statistics many times on the board.  Violent crime correlates to education and income more than anything else.  Our jails are not filled with educated people with good incomes.  If your contention that crime is race-based was correct, then we would find disproportionate representation of ethnic groups regardless of education and income.  We don't. 

In addition, race-based statistics are completely unreliable given the mixing of the races.  Just look at the fact people consider Obama black when his mom is white.  Race-based statistics don't account for this.     
 

[Bindare_Dundat]

A nation that once prided itself on a sense of rugged individualism has become uncomfortably obsessed with racial group identities.

The collectivist mindset is at the heart of racism.

Government as an institution is particularly ill-suited to combat bigotry. Bigotry at its essence is a problem of the heart, and we cannot change people's hearts by passing more laws and regulations.

It is the federal government that most divides us by race, class, religion, and gender. Through its taxes, restrictive regulations, corporate subsidies, racial set-asides, and welfare programs, government plays far too large a role in determining who succeeds and who fails. Government "benevolence" crowds out genuine goodwill by institutionalizing group thinking, thus making each group suspicious that others are receiving more of the government loot. This leads to resentment and hostility among us.

Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than as individuals. Racists believe that all individuals who share superficial physical characteristics are alike: as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism.

The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims. Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence - not skin color, gender, or ethnicity.

In a free society, every citizen gains a sense of himself as an individual, rather than developing a group or victim mentality. This leads to a sense of individual responsibility and personal pride, making skin color irrelevant. Racism will endure until we stop thinking in terms of groups and begin thinking in terms of individual liberty.

[G o a t b o y]

We have discussed race-based crime statistics many times on the board.  Violent crime correlates to education and income more than anything else.  Our jails are not filled with educated people with good incomes.  If your contention that crime is race-based was correct, then we would find disproportionate representation of ethnic groups regardless of education and income.  We don't. 

You are correct on the income/education correlation with crime of course, but have studies ever been done that factor socioeconomic status out as a variable?  While it's a given that poorer people of all races are more likely to commit crimes, I suspect that the American "black culture" of today that glamorizes the "thug life" crap and teaches disdain for society and the "white man's law" would create a somewhat higher crime rate among poor blacks than poor whites.  I wouldn't have said this fifty years ago, but "black culture" has changed dramatically  in that time, and not for the better.

[G o a t b o y]

A nation that once prided itself on a sense of rugged individualism has become uncomfortably obsessed with racial group identities.

Agreed.  Unfortunately, the liberals are obsessed with celebrating "differences" and "diversity", which serves to do nothing but drive us apart.  We should return to the days of the great american "melting pot", where people wanted to blend in to the greater culture and become one people rather than constantly trying to maintain a seperate identity and then demand group favors and group concessions based on it.

[Tre]

You are correct on the income/education correlation with crime of course, but have studies ever been done that factor socioeconomic status out as a variable?  While it's a given that poorer people of all races are more likely to commit crimes, I suspect that the American "black culture" of today that glamorizes the "thug life" crap and teaches disdain for society and the "white man's law" would create a somewhat higher crime rate among poor blacks than poor whites.  I wouldn't have said this fifty years ago, but "black culture" has changed dramatically  in that time, and not for the better.

Not exactly.  The 'hip-hop culture' - which is as much a creation of Whites and Jews as it is of Blacks - seeks to deny our personhood and when you believe that you yourself are something less than human, then it becomes easy to commit violent acts against others that you view the same way.

In the last 20 years, we have failed our young people when it comes to teaching the virtues of Black Love.   

What Jag says about so many of our people being left behind is true - I absolutely will not deny that reality.  However, the solution BEGINS with educating our young people to love first themselves and secondly, to love their neighbors as they love themselves.  If the churches want to get involved, that's fine - religion CAN be used for positive purposes - but we must stress self-love from the moment our charges are born.

[Dos Equis]

You are correct on the income/education correlation with crime of course, but have studies ever been done that factor socioeconomic status out as a variable?  While it's a given that poorer people of all races are more likely to commit crimes, I suspect that the American "black culture" of today that glamorizes the "thug life" crap and teaches disdain for society and the "white man's law" would create a somewhat higher crime rate among poor blacks than poor whites.  I wouldn't have said this fifty years ago, but "black culture" has changed dramatically  in that time, and not for the better.

I don't know if there has been such a study, but one of the questions I've always had about these race-based studies is "what is the purpose"?  Plus I don't believe any of these studies account for mixed race people and likely use the "one drop" rule.  

I do not agree that "black culture" glamorizes thug life.  Do you know what percentage of hip hop and "gangtsa rap" patrons are white?  The only significant segments of the "black community" that glamorizes those fools are the poor and uneducated.  

A good friend of mine (who is black) and I have discussed this many times.  There is a documentary on the history of the Civil Rights Movement called "Eyes on the Prize."  I have it.  One of the things you notice is how articulate the young black kids are from the 50s and 60s.  But if you believe what a disproportionate portion of the media presents today, you'd think those kids don't exist anymore.  They're still here.  What has happened is when a "race" issue hits the media, they run to people like Kanye West or some uneducated athlete and stick microphones in their faces.

In my experience, there is no difference whatsoever between poor and poorly educated and educated/well-off whites, blacks, Asians, or Hispanics.  They're all cut from the same cloth and all face the same challenges.    

[G o a t b o y]

I do not agree that "black culture" glamorizes thug life.  Do you know what percentage of hip hop and "gangtsa rap" patrons are white?  The only significant segments of the "black community" that glamorizes those fools are the poor and uneducated.

Here's the difference:  if a white kid applies himself in education, works hard, and follows the rules he's not going to get a bunch of shit for it from his peers and culture.  If a black kid does the same thing, he's labeled a "sellout" or "uncle tom" by his peers and community.  It's that sentiment I'm talking about moreso than the commercialized "gangsta rap".

[Dos Equis]

Here's the difference:  if a white kid applies himself in education, works hard, and follows the rules he's not going to get a bunch of shit for it from his peers and culture.  If a black kid does the same thing, he's labeled a "sellout" or "uncle tom" by his peers and community.  It's that sentiment I'm talking about moreso than the commercialized "gangsta rap".

What are you basing that conclusion on Goatboy? 

[G o a t b o y]

What are you basing that conclusion on Goatboy? 

First hand observation, as well as conversations with others who have observed it first hand.  Are you trying to tell me it doesn't exist?  If so, you're like the rest of the liberals closing your eyes, holding hands over your ears, and going "la-la-la-la" since the reality doesn't match up with your ideology.

[Dos Equis]

First hand observation, as well as conversations with others who have observed it first hand.  Are you trying to tell me it doesn't exist?  If so, you're like the rest of the liberals closing your eyes, holding hands over your ears, and going "la-la-la-la" since the reality doesn't match up with your ideology.

Actually I was just asking you for the basis of your broad-brush conclusion. 

If you're trying to say "black culture" discourages success, I completely disagree.  Any kid who works hard and is successful, regardless of race, is by and large admired by his or her peers and community. 

[240 is Back]

G o a t b o y,

BB believes that people won't be alarmed by 200 paramilitary men in black body armor firing full-auto blanks indiscriminantly into buildings as they kick down doors in the downtown district.

When they did these drills in Hawaii, he defended it and said no one would care or notice.

If you think about that before you read anything by him, it helps to absorb the delusions he tries to sell.

[Dos Equis]

G o a t b o y,

BB believes that people won't be alarmed by 200 paramilitary men in black body armor firing full-auto blanks indiscriminantly into buildings as they kick down doors in the downtown district.

When they did these drills in Hawaii, he defended it and said no one would care or notice.

If you think about that before you read anything by him, it helps to absorb the delusions he tries to sell.

LOL.  I usually ignore most of what you post, because you are a screwball, but I have to say you continue to show that you are a pathological liar.  lol . . . . Here is the thread:  http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=205642.0

And here is the story:  http://starbulletin.com/2008/03/13/news/story03.html

You'll note the story says nothing about "200 paramilitary men in black body armor firing full-auto blanks indiscriminantly into buildings as they kick down doors in the downtown district." 

[240 is Back]

you are a screwball

Beach Bum,

you're a moderator who called me a screwball.

I call you a neocon cockgobbler.

My post stays, bitch

[Dos Equis]

Beach Bum,

you're a moderator who called me a screwball.

I call you a neocon cockgobbler.

My post stays, bitch

So forget about the outright lie you just told.  What is that, number 100 this month? 

I used to think you were a harmless screwball.  Now after reading about you threatening to murder your wife and child and then posting a picture showing a gun with ammunition, I think you are downright scary.  Please do let me know if you ever plan to visit Hawaii.  I may need to get a TRO . . . and metal detector for my office. 

[Hugo Chavez]

Ok, Beach Bum and 240, even if both you guys think there is no point, attach some sort of contribution to the thread/issue in your insults.  That's not a lot to ask.  You still get to call eachother cumguzzlers or whatever...  You're both guilty to some degree and if I do the same, I expect one of the other mods to set me straight.  Let's keep the discussion going.

[24KT]

I don't know if there has been such a study, but one of the questions I've always had about these race-based studies is "what is the purpose"?  Plus I don't believe any of these studies account for mixed race people and likely use the "one drop" rule.  

I do not agree that "black culture" glamorizes thug life.  Do you know what percentage of hip hop and "gangtsa rap" patrons are white?  The only significant segments of the "black community" that glamorizes those fools are the poor and uneducated.  

A good friend of mine (who is black) and I have discussed this many times.  There is a documentary on the history of the Civil Rights Movement called "Eyes on the Prize."  I have it.  One of the things you notice is how articulate the young black kids are from the 50s and 60s.  But if you believe what a disproportionate portion of the media presents today, you'd think those kids don't exist anymore.  They're still here.  What has happened is when a "race" issue hits the media, they run to people like Kanye West or some uneducated athlete and stick microphones in their faces.

In my experience, there is no difference whatsoever between poor and poorly educated and educated/well-off whites, blacks, Asians, or Hispanics.  They're all cut from the same cloth and all face the same challenges.    

Holy Cow!  We actually agree on something!  

Eyes on The Prize is a fabuolous documentary. Very inspiring, and very empowering.

People speak about a thing called "white guilt". I'm not sure I know exactly what that is, ...but I can tell you as a Black person who didn't have to go through even 1/10th of what many American Blacks had to go through, and continue to go through, seeing some of the struggles others have had to endure is enough to inspire "Black guilt".

I remember back in 1990, Erika Alexander coming up to Toronto to shoot a movie based on a true story of integrating the schools in Boston. John Boy from the Walton's directed it, ...and I remember how struck I was by the differences in our experiences. The girl whose story was being portrayed was entering her first day of school in the 6th grade. Well her first day of school in the 6th grade, was also MY first day of school in the 6th grade. It was such a contrast.

Two separate schools in two different countries, on the exact same day of the year. I remember my first day of grade 6 very well, and I can assure you it was nothing like hers.

I am who I am, and I think the way I think as a result of my experiences, as well as my environment. I don't think I would be the same person had I been raised in the USA. My perspectives would have been different, as would my experiences. However, when you grow up keenly aware of the relative priviledge you enjoy, compared to others, even if those priviledges are nothing more than basic human rights, dignity, and a fighting chance, depending on the values instilled in you, there is a need to give back and make a difference in the lives of others. There is a need to model and mentor those coming behind. Because when you truly understand the issues that confront your neighbour, you know that 'There, but for the grace of God, go I'. One thing Obama knows and knows keenly, is that when he stands tall, it is because he is standing on the backs of so many others who came before him. Now, he's ready to blaze a trail for others to follow behind him. The beauty about Obama is, he's blazing that trail for ALL.

[24KT]

First hand observation, as well as conversations with others who have observed it first hand.  Are you trying to tell me it doesn't exist?  If so, you're like the rest of the liberals closing your eyes, holding hands over your ears, and going "la-la-la-la" since the reality doesn't match up with your ideology.

Goatboy, what you speak of DOES exist. And it exists in any blue-collar family black or white.
It's a product of class, culture, ignorance and socio-economics, ...not a product of race.

[G o a t b o y]

Goatboy, what you speak of DOES exist. And it exists in any blue-collar family black or white.
It's a product of class, culture, ignorance and socio-economics, ...not a product of race.

The distrust of the system, and the urge to opt out of the system because you believe it to be the "white man's system", is an african american phenomenon.

Are poor white kids likely to undervalue education? Of course, but they don't have the additional motivations I just described so prevalent in the black community.

[24KT]

Well, according to the Wall Street Journal, he did pretty good!

A Thinking Man's Speech
By Peggy Noonan, The Wall Street Journal
March 21, 2008; Page W16



I thought Barack Obama's speech was strong, thoughtful and important. Rather beautifully, it was a speech to think to, not clap to. It was clear that's what he wanted, and this is rare.

It seemed to me as honest a speech as one in his position could give within the limits imposed by politics. As such it was a contribution. We'll see if it was a success. The blowhard guild, proud member since 2000, praised it, and, in the biggest compliment, cable news shows came out of the speech not with jokes or jaded insiderism, but with thought. They started talking, pundits left and right, black and white, about what they'd experienced of race in America. It was kind of wonderful. I thought, Go, America, go, go.

[24KT]

The distrust of the system, and the urge to opt out of the system because you believe it to be the "white man's system", is an african american phenomenon.

Are poor white kids likely to undervalue education? Of course, but they don't have the additional motivations I just described so prevalent in the black community.

Wow Goatboy, ...thanks for setting me straight.

I don't know where I as a Black woman would be if I didn't have you to tell me all about the sentiments that run so deeply within the Black community. If I need any advice about the Black experience, I now know where to turn.

[shootfighter1]

Bindare_Dundat, great post.  Same with Tre.  I agree with both of you guys.

We must teach all kids in this nation to have a strong work ethic, acheivement leading to self pride, love for oneself and ones family and an initial optimistic attitude onto others.
This is where some of the government programs miss the mark.  If you don't change the core values, people won't change.  Giving without making people feel like they earned something or contributed in some way does not change the mindset or habits that lead to severing the cycle of poverty or poor decision making.  This is a fact irrespective of race, gender or creed.