Dear Joe...

[240 is Back]

You seem to be getting seriously emotionally involved in the discussions here, and that's normal, politics is designed to get the blood boiling and get you to choose 1 side and love the heck out of them.

But you can't take it so seriously.

I'm more guilty than anyone, of taking this place too seriously.  You KNOW you're right, and you just can't understand why others won't listen.  But hey, we're all just one vote in the long run.  Getbig politics is just entertainment, to help us choose a candidate and solidify our position. 

I was one of the original people who rallied a vote to get the politics board started.  I don't want it to become a stagnant place.  I don't want everyone to agree on everything.  I like to push buttons. 

Personally, I'm a Catholic and a Republican.  My vote will go to McCain despite his liberal leanings because he is, after all, the most conservative man in the race.  By discussing his weaknesses, I'm the most honest republican here.  I am saying to people "My candidate sure isn't perfect - let me show you 5 of his weaknesses - but he's still the best candidate for the USA".  People respect that.  They don't want to hear "My guy is perfect and the other guy hates America" because they smell 2 obvious lies there.  When I say McCain will do a good job, hilary will do a good job, and Obama can do a great job but might do a bad job, well, it's completely honest.

I'm just being open and honest about all the issues and both sides of things, Joe.  So please don't take offense.  You call me a lib, and in reality, YOU have done more to make repubs look bad than I have.   You defend anything Bush does, you tell us McCain is great but can't list 5 reasons... that scares people.  Me... I'll tell you 5 things wrong with Mccain, 5 things wrong with Hilary, 5 things wrong with Obama, then tell you why I think McCain will do the best job, provided he gets help in the economy area.

In closing, as a fellow republican, I beg you to just display honesty, and realize that admiting your team's flaws is a GOOD thing - people respect your honesty and integrity and therefore value your opinion a lot more.

[shootfighter1]

Good post.

Think for yourself, question authority.  Don't follow party lines just for the sake of the party.  Keep an open mind, debate, learn and then make decisions.
I consider myself an independent...but I am very much at odds with socialist and ultra liberal agendas.

[240 is Back]

Good post.

Think for yourself, question authority.  Don't follow party lines just for the sake of the party.  Keep an open mind, debate, learn and then make decisions.
I consider myself an independent...but I am very much at odds with socialist and ultra liberal agendas.

Good call.  Bottom line is that we ALL love the USA.  We all want what is best for the place.  All 3 of the candidates are qualified to do a great job, and the nation will be successful no matter who wins.  Each just has their own flavor that appeals to our own personal set of beliefs more or less.

Joe, do you accept my olive branch?

[calmus]

Joe = douchebag, with no moral compass.  So he relies on a drug-addict hatemonger to be his guide.

[War-Horse]

Joe = douchebag, with no moral compass.  So he relies on a drug-addict hatemonger to be his guide.

I predict he'll lose his overpriced home soon and re-think his positions of blind loyalty.

[Decker]

We are going to have to flesh out what it means to be conservative.

240 remarked that McCain is the most conservative of the candidates.

I don't agree.

Based on his policy statements, I would say he's closer to a rightwing ideologue than a conservative.

[240 is Back]

Based on his policy statements, I would say he's closer to a rightwing ideologue than a conservative.

Fair enough.  How would you define each of these 2 terms?

[shootfighter1]

Yes, please, a definition. 

I see general conservatism as being for a smaller federal government, less taxes, less federal spending, less federal programs, using the federal government to serve the people and protect them as a nation, more adhearance to the ideals of the constitution upon which this country was founded.  This is a good general idea IMO.

Social conservatism seems to me more tied in to right wing agendas...ie, less separation between church & state, repealing abortion rights, traditional values, protecting marriage as being between a man & woman, etc.

I don't really think McCain is either.  He has stepped closer to the republican side in the last couple yrs but he has always been on different sides of the isle depending on the issue.

[Decker]

Fair enough.  How would you define each of these 2 terms?

I think of conservativism in the Burkean sense.  Honor of traditions, institutions, authority, lassez-faire markets, fidelity to the rule of law, smaller government and incremental policy changes.  The 'steady-as-she-goes' approach.

The terminology 'rightwing ideologue' denotes one who emphatically advocates his prejudices as unassailable--i.e., a radical.  In short, McCain supports supplyside tax cuts (Bush tax cuts), an illegal war in Iraq, attacking Iran, torture, among other things.

He's a Bush clone with a comb-over.  I see no fidelity to the rule of law in the McCain planks above.  Preventive war is not in our tradtions or history.  The Framers went out of their way to make a special provision in the constitution to outlaw torture/cruel and unusual punishment.

His certainty about the 100 years in Iraq and the efficacy of tax cuts at "increasing tax revenue" cinch it for me.

[240 is Back]

Joe?

[The Coach]

Joe?

What?

[240 is Back]

I extended you an olive branch, and challenged you to be honest about what you like and dislike about McCain, and tell us why he's the best man for the job.

[War-Horse]

I extended you an olive branch, and challenged you to be honest about what you like and dislike about McCain, and tell us why he's the best man for the job.

He doesnt like olives.  His house payment is due and hes confused how this could happen...

[Bindare_Dundat]

I extended you an olive branch, and challenged you to be honest about what you like and dislike about McCain, and tell us why he's the best man for the job.

He can't answer this question cause it requires an answer longer than just typing, "Lib".

[The Coach]

I extended you an olive branch, and challenged you to be honest about what you like and dislike about McCain, and tell us why he's the best man for the job.

I'm sorry, you extend an "olive branch" then backstab me??

One of the first things about being in business Rob, is not to piss off your clients.

[Dos Equis]

I'm sorry, you extend an "olive branch" then backstab me??

One of the first things about being in business Rob, is not to piss off your clients.

lol.  True, true.   

[War-Horse]

I'm sorry, you extend an "olive branch" then backstab me??

One of the first things about being in business Rob, is not to piss off your clients.

Joe. is the house okay??  If your credit is still good you can pull some false equity out and make some payments....       Im sorry you found out that bush doesnt give a damn about you.    You really believed in him and his economy tactics......

[The Coach]

Joe. is the house okay??  If your credit is still good you can pull some false equity out and make some payments....       Im sorry you found out that bush doesnt give a damn about you.    You really believed in him and his economy tactics......

Yep, house is great, payments are on time (on both homes) buisness is great and picking up and since I don't really invest in any stocks, I don't wake up, read the paper and shit my pants during my morning coffee. The funny thing is you boneheads think this thing is perminant, for the people who have to worry......you all must be doing something wrong.

Oh BTW, this was taken from the patio of my home in Palm Springs, I have equity in that as well. The good thing about real estate, it always bounces back.....go ahead, sweat out your portfolios everyday. I prefer to do it the old fashion way and keep my risks limited.

[Straw Man]

Yep, house is great, payments are on time (on both homes) buisness is great and picking up and since I don't really invest in any stocks, I don't wake up, read the paper and shit my pants during my morning coffee. The funny thing is you boneheads think this thing is perminant, for the people who have to worry......you all must be doing something wrong.

Oh BTW, this was taken from the patio of my home in Palm Springs, I have equity in that as well. The good thing about real estate, it always bounces back.....go ahead, sweat out your portfolios everyday. I prefer to do it the old fashion way and keep my risks limited.

Joe

you posted this pic before.  Isn't this from the place where you got married?

[The Coach]

Joe

you posted this pic before.  Isn't this from the place where you got married?

No, it's from our home in PS where we spent our quasi honeymoon. We had a civil marriage in Orange Co.

[Straw Man]

so you own a home there and live in that other place by the beach?

How often are you in Palm Springs?

[The Coach]

so you own a home there and live in that other place by the beach?

How often are you in Palm Springs?

Yes, we try to get out there every 2-3 weeks or so, sometimes longer. We love it there.

[Straw Man]

so it's vacant except for a few days every 3 weeks or so?

[The Coach]

so it's vacant except for a few days every 3 weeks or so?

Yeah, I think I know what your getting at, but I don't want to rent it out, if we were there every 6 months or so then I would consider it.

[Straw Man]

just wondering