Author Topic: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military  (Read 2687 times)

loco

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20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« on: March 20, 2008, 12:20:17 PM »
"In fact, the first U.S. service member killed in the Iraq war, on March 21, 2003, was Marine Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez, a resident of Guatemala who came to the United States when he was just 14."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/19/greencard.marine/index.html

240 is Back

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2008, 01:23:18 PM »
fine with me.   If illegals want to serve to earn their citizenship, sounds fair to me.  Four years of risking your ass out there, you've served this country well.

loco

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2008, 01:26:06 PM »
fine with me.   If illegals want to serve to earn their citizenship, sounds fair to me.  Four years of risking your ass out there, you've served this country well.

Just to clarify, these are not illegals.  They are legal, permanent US residents.  They have a green-card, but no US citizenship.  So they can't vote or hold a federal government job.

Cap

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2008, 01:28:02 PM »
Send the illegals and welfare recipients over there, make them earn their stay.  The illegals earn their citizenship and the welfare cases show they still deserve it by providing a service.
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Mad Nickels

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2008, 01:40:16 PM »
i wonder what happens when they find out there are no taco stands in baghdad.

they be pissed, man.
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shootfighter1

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2008, 01:41:16 PM »
I think service for citizenship would be an excellent idea.
4 yrs of military service and you may be granted citizenship.  Absolutely.

headhuntersix

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2008, 02:01:03 PM »
Lets go one farther....ur not a citizen unless u serve period....ala StarShip Troopers.
L

loco

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2008, 02:45:27 PM »
Lets go one farther....ur not a citizen unless u serve period....ala StarShip Troopers.

That's right!   ;D

"They're doing their part. Are you? Join the Mobile Infantry and save the world. Service guarantees citizenship."


calmus

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2008, 05:47:37 PM »
Yeah, but in ST arship troopers all the chicks were hot and the showers coed. 

In reality, chicks like Lyndie England (HH6's army girlfriend) outnumber Jessica Lynch (Hello, I'd like to shower with you).

Camel Jockey

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2008, 07:15:11 PM »
Yeah, but in ST arship troopers all the chicks were hot and the showers coed. 

In reality, chicks like Lyndie England (HH6's army girlfriend) outnumber Jessica Lynch (Hello, I'd like to shower with you).

hahaha  ;D

Looks go a long way.. Didn't the army make up sensational story about Lynch emptying an entire clip engaging extremists? In reality, she got fucking raped like a redheaded stepchild.

Oh, and a shot of HH6 and his girl Lyndie:


Deicide

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2008, 07:19:46 PM »
Lets go one farther....ur not a citizen unless u serve period....ala StarShip Troopers.

Ridiculous. The draft didn't work and it is a violation of freedom of choice...more government telling you what to do... ::)

I can't figure out who is worse, right wing wackjobs or left wing nutters..

I am going to go with the right wingers since they like death and destruction tend to be religious nuts...still a close competition though....
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JBGRAY

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2008, 07:47:10 PM »
It is simply another addition to classism within the US military.  The Enlisted ranks of our branches in the military, particularily amongst junior ranks, represent minorities and poor whites far above then what is reflected in total US population.  Without affirmative action and racial quotas, you'd find the Officer ranks very white, and often of middle to upper class backgrounds. 

Young people are joining the military not for the sake of fighting for flag and country, but because of the educational benefits, sign-up bonuses, and vocational training.....in essence, preparing for the real world.  Recruiting standards as of late have fallen quite dramatically.  EVen with the leniancy of recruiting, you'd be very surprised as to how many recruits who are genuinely interested in a military career do not qualify due to criminal records, bodyfat %, drugs, grades, etc......it isn't pretty, and I saw a LOT of it in the Miami-Dade recruiting district.  College is becoming almost prohibitively expensive, some young people have the foresight of not wanting to sink into debt over school loans, and decent jobs, particularily of manufactoring and industrial, are nowhere to be found above 8 bucks an hour directly out of high school.
Hell, even having a Bachelors or Masters only guarantees an assload of debt and not a great job, or even to possess a job.

I do believe that the number of non-citizens serving in the US military should be drastically reduced, and for those that do serve and get Honorable Discharges, should be granted permanent US citizenship.  I believe it is very troubling and problematic that the face of the US military is far out of proportion of what is representative of the peoples of the United States.  Perhaps the military's desperation to lure recruits might not be so desperate if our leaders were able to make sound decisions pertaining to foreign policy.

calmus

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2008, 07:49:25 PM »
a shot of HH6 and his girl Lyndie:



HH6 needs to work on his pipes.

Dos Equis

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2008, 07:58:23 PM »
It is simply another addition to classism within the US military.  The Enlisted ranks of our branches in the military, particularily amongst junior ranks, represent minorities and poor whites far above then what is reflected in total US population.  Without affirmative action and racial quotas, you'd find the Officer ranks very white, and often of middle to upper class backgrounds. 

Young people are joining the military not for the sake of fighting for flag and country, but because of the educational benefits, sign-up bonuses, and vocational training.....in essence, preparing for the real world.  Recruiting standards as of late have fallen quite dramatically.  EVen with the leniancy of recruiting, you'd be very surprised as to how many recruits who are genuinely interested in a military career do not qualify due to criminal records, bodyfat %, drugs, grades, etc......it isn't pretty, and I saw a LOT of it in the Miami-Dade recruiting district.  College is becoming almost prohibitively expensive, some young people have the foresight of not wanting to sink into debt over school loans, and decent jobs, particularily of manufactoring and industrial, are nowhere to be found above 8 bucks an hour directly out of high school.
Hell, even having a Bachelors or Masters only guarantees an assload of debt and not a great job, or even to possess a job.

I do believe that the number of non-citizens serving in the US military should be drastically reduced, and for those that do serve and get Honorable Discharges, should be granted permanent US citizenship.  I believe it is very troubling and problematic that the face of the US military is far out of proportion of what is representative of the peoples of the United States.  Perhaps the military's desperation to lure recruits might not be so desperate if our leaders were able to make sound decisions pertaining to foreign policy.

I agree with much of this.  Don't agree with the racial quota part.  I'm unaware of any racial quota system in the Army.  Officers get by on merit.  The overwhelming majority have college degrees and many of them have graduate degrees.   

War-Horse

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2008, 08:09:52 PM »
hahaha  ;D

Looks go a long way.. Didn't the army make up sensational story about Lynch emptying an entire clip engaging extremists? In reality, she got fucking raped like a redheaded stepchild.

Oh, and a shot of HH6 and his girl Lyndie:




Thats silly.  repubs dont like girls... ;D

























j/k   If true, nice pic and stay safe.

JBGRAY

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2008, 08:12:05 PM »
I agree with much of this.  Don't agree with the racial quota part.  I'm unaware of any racial quota system in the Army.  Officers get by on merit.  The overwhelming majority have college degrees and many of them have graduate degrees.   

There ARE race-based quotas within the military.  I've seen it and even been a part of it myself.  Recruiters are given extra "points" for recruiting a minority and work harder in order to recruit one.  When I made E-5 in the Navy(I later went to do 2 years in the USCG as part of a LEDET team for CD-OPS), which is a combination of evaluation and a written exam, I saw that a shipmate of mine in my division, who was black, had also made E-5 but was given extra merit based on the color of his skin.  At the time, I didn't care, as he was my friend and that we both had made E5.

ALL military officers have college degrees.  They either come from the US Military Academies or from a university that has a such program on it's campus.  Sometimes, exceptional Enlisted personnel are selected to attend the Academy to become an Officer.  The only instance I can think of where an Officer may not have at least a 4 year degree is an LDO(a higher-ranking Enlisted who crosses over to the Officer ranks, entering as an O1 and not higher than an O3), and this is probably exceptionally rare.

Just like the real world, the military doesn't act much different when considering minority prospects for advancement, promotion, and entry.  Being a minority is a definite advantage.  Now, BB, I have a quick Homework assignment for you:  can you tell me what the racial makeup of US Special Forces is(SEALS, Marine Recon, Green Berets, etc..) and why that is?

Dos Equis

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2008, 08:32:38 PM »
There ARE race-based quotas within the military.  I've seen it and even been a part of it myself.  Recruiters are given extra "points" for recruiting a minority and work harder in order to recruit one.  When I made E-5 in the Navy(I later went to do 2 years in the USCG as part of a LEDET team for CD-OPS), which is a combination of evaluation and a written exam, I saw that a shipmate of mine in my division, who was black, had also made E-5 but was given extra merit based on the color of his skin.  At the time, I didn't care, as he was my friend and that we both had made E5.

ALL military officers have college degrees.  They either come from the US Military Academies or from a university that has a such program on it's campus.  Sometimes, exceptional Enlisted personnel are selected to attend the Academy to become an Officer.  The only instance I can think of where an Officer may not have at least a 4 year degree is an LDO(a higher-ranking Enlisted who crosses over to the Officer ranks, entering as an O1 and not higher than an O3), and this is probably exceptionally rare.

Just like the real world, the military doesn't act much different when considering minority prospects for advancement, promotion, and entry.  Being a minority is a definite advantage.  Now, BB, I have a quick Homework assignment for you:  can you tell me what the racial makeup of US Special Forces is(SEALS, Marine Recon, Green Berets, etc..) and why that is?

Don't know anything about recruiting policies, so I'll take your word for it, but I seriously doubt officers are given extra "points" during the promotion process based on the color of their skin.  I know there has been an effort over the past twenty years to increase minorities in the officer ranks--and there is nothing wrong with that--but they still have to compete and earn their way based on merit.  A minority isn't going to be given a promotion or a command because he is a minority. 

Also, the service academies and ROTC are not the only ways to become an officer.  Anyone with a college degree can go to OCS, whether they went through ROTC or not.  That includes enlisted.  It is a competitive process though.

I don't know the racial makeup of the Special Forces, Seals, etc., although most of the ones I know are white.  Why do you ask?     

calmus

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2008, 08:33:40 PM »

Thats silly.  repubs dont like girls... ;D

























j/k   If true, nice pic and stay safe.

You don't think HH6 needs to work on his arms?

War-Horse

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2008, 09:21:31 PM »
You don't think HH6 needs to work on his arms?






Definitly.  But i was trying to spread out my insults.. ;D

Hugo Chavez

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2008, 09:53:56 PM »
Nothing new here Loco... It's been so for a long time.  Just about anybody can sign up, just like I could up and go sign up with some other militaries.  This is actually pretty common.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2008, 09:56:13 PM »
fine with me.   If illegals want to serve to earn their citizenship, sounds fair to me.  Four years of risking your ass out there, you've served this country well.
To be fair, many of the foreign people who sign up are not illegals.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2008, 09:57:18 PM »
Send the illegals and welfare recipients over there, make them earn their stay.  The illegals earn their citizenship and the welfare cases show they still deserve it by providing a service.
Depending on the country, you're not even guaranteed citenzenship for serving.

headhuntersix

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2008, 07:45:02 AM »
U will find very few Blacks in the SOF community...u will find tons of Latino's..oh and as for Lindy and her boyfriend...my tats are much better and I don't have a porn stash.
L

loco

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Re: 20,500 "non-U.S. citizens" serving in the military
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2008, 02:24:29 AM »
100+ members of U.S. military earn citizenship by dying in Iraq

Sun Mar 23, 11:37 PM ET

A young, ambitious immigrant from Guatemala who dreamed of becoming an architect. A Nigerian medic. A soldier from China who boasted he would one day become an American general. An Indian native whose headstone displays the first Khanda, emblem of the Sikh faith, to appear in Arlington National Cemetery.

These were among more than 100 foreign-born members of the U.S. military who earned American citizenship by dying in Iraq...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080324/ap_on_re_us/4000_fallen_citizens_in_death