Author Topic: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!  (Read 4173 times)

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Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« on: March 21, 2008, 03:20:05 PM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-harris/what-barack-obama-could-n_b_92771.html

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Barack Obama delivered a truly brilliant and inspiring speech this week. There were a few things, however, that he did not and could not (and, indeed, should not) say:

He did not say that the mess he is in has as much to do with religion as with racism--and, indeed, religion is the reason why our political discourse in this country is so scandalously stupid. As Christopher Hitchens observed in Slate months ago, one glance at the website of the Trinity United Church of Christ should have convinced anyone that Obama's connection to Reverend Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. would be a problem at some point in this campaign. Why couldn't Obama just cut his ties to his church and move on?

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Well, among other inexpediencies, this might have put his faith in Jesus in question. After all, Reverend Wright was the man who brought him to the "foot of the cross." Might the Senator from Illinois be unsure whether the Creator of the universe brought forth his only Son from the womb of a Galilean virgin, taught him the carpenter's trade, and then had him crucified for our benefit? Few suspicions could be more damaging in American politics today.

The stultifying effect of religion is everywhere to be seen in the 2008 Presidential campaign. The faith of the candidates has been a constant concern in the Republican contest, of course--where John McCain, lacking the expected aura of born-again bamboozlement, has been struggling to entice some proper religious maniacs to his cause. He now finds himself in the compassionate embrace of Pastor John Hagee, a man who claims to know that a global war will soon precipitate the Rapture and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (problem solved). Prior to McCain's ascendancy, we saw Governor Mitt Romney driven from the field by a Creationist yokel and his sectarian hordes. And this, despite the fact that the governor had been wearing consecrated Mormon underpants all the while, whose powers of protection are as yet unrecognized by Evangelicals.

Like every candidate, Obama must appeal to millions of voters who believe that without religion, most of us would spend our days raping and killing our neighbors and stealing their pornography. Examples of well-behaved and comparatively atheistic societies like Sweden, Finland, Norway, and Denmark--which surpass us in terrestrial virtues like education, health, public generosity, per capita aid to the developing world, and low rates of violent crime and infant mortality--are of no interest to our electorate whatsoever. It is, of course, good to know that people like Reverend Wright occasionally do help the poor, feed the hungry, and care for the sick. But wouldn't it be better to do these things for reasons that are not manifestly delusional? Can we care for one another without believing that Jesus Christ rose from the dead and is now listening to our thoughts?

Yes we can.

Happily, Obama did a fine job of distancing himself from Reverend Wright's divisive views on racism in America, along with his fatuous "chickens come home to roost" assessment of our war against Islamic terrorism. But he did not (and should not) acknowledge that the worst parts of Reverend Wright's sermons, as with most sermons, are his appeals to the empty hopes and baseless fears of his parishioners--people who could surely find better ways of advancing their interests in this world, if only they could banish the fiction of a world to come.

Obama did not say that religion's effect on our society, and on the black community especially, has been destructive--and where it has seemed constructive it has generally taken the place of better things. Religion unites, motivates, and consoles beleaguered people not with knowledge, but with superstition and false promises. Surely there is a better way to bring people together in the 21st century. The truth is, despite the toothsomeness of his campaign slogan, we are not yet the people we have been waiting for. And if we don't start talking sense to our children, they won't be the ones we are waiting for either.

Obama was surely wise not to mention that Christianity was, without question, the great enabler of slavery in this country. The Confederate soldiers who eagerly laid down their lives at three times the rate of Union men, for the pleasure of keeping blacks in bondage and using them as farm equipment, did so with the conscious understanding that they were doing the Lord's work. After Reconstruction, religion united Southern whites in their racist hatred and the black community in its squalor--inuring men and women on both sides to injustice far more efficiently than it inspired them to overcome it.

The problem of religious fatalism, ignorance, and false hope, while plain to see in most religious contexts, is now especially obvious in the black community. The popularity of "prosperity gospel" is perhaps the most galling example: where unctuous crooks like T.D. Jakes and Creflo Dollar persuade undereducated and underprivileged men and women to pray for wealth, while tithing what little wealth they have to their corrupt and swollen ministries. Men like Jakes and Dollar, whatever occasional good they may do, are unconscionable predators and curators of human ignorance. Is it too soon to say this in American politics? Yes it is.

Despite all that he does not and cannot say, Obama's candidacy is genuinely thrilling: his heart is clearly in the right place; he is an order of magnitude more intelligent than the current occupant of the Oval Office; and he still stands a decent chance of becoming the next President of the United States. His election in November really would be a triumph of hope.

But Obama's candidacy is also depressing, for it demonstrates that even a person of the greatest candor and eloquence must still claim to believe the unbelievable in order to have a political career in this country. We may be ready for the audacity of hope. Will we ever be ready for the audacity of reason?
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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2008, 03:29:14 PM »
De. Did you know the book of revelation says that goverments would turn on religion and destroy her for all the chaos she caused.

The wild beast (world goverment)  is ridden by the harlot  (False religions) it uses her for a time to raise some money but then turns and devours her in the name of PEACE.....

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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2008, 09:53:13 PM »
I actually tried to read it, but he lost me here: 

Quote
Obama was surely wise not to mention that Christianity was, without question, the great enabler of slavery in this country.

Absolutely false.  The great "enabler" of slavery was racism, not Christianity.  ::)   

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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2008, 09:59:09 PM »
He got fvcking owned by Reza Aslan  ;D
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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2008, 09:59:34 PM »
A different perspective:

Commentary: Race, faith and politics

By Roland S. Martin
CNN Contributor
    
(CNN) -- The revelation of controversial comments made by the longtime pastor of Sen. Barack Obama, and the equally hot aftermath from the general public that led to the junior senator from Illinois delivering a strong speech/sermon on race in America, has opened anew the explosive connection between three of the most volatile issues today.

If a poll were taken, there is no doubt that race, faith and politics would be the most emotional, passionate and divisive topics. Why? Because all three are so deeply personal. What one person sees as a negative, another would determine as a strength.

Republicans strongly believe that they are superior and right on the direction of the nation compared to Democrats. African Americans are protective of their culture and ways of living, while whites routinely ask why we can't just be one nation with no labels. Catholics contend they are the one and only true church, while Baptists will say that being dipped in the water after making a personal decision to give your life to Christ is the true way of salvation for the believer.

As a Christian, I've seen church members go toe-to-toe when discussing either one of these issues, and can remember some late night debates in college that would have made the toes of Lincoln and Douglas curl.

So why did the comments of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright strike such a core, and how did it lead to Obama to give a speech on race? That was the question posed to me in a number of e-mails, and like Obama stated in his speech, it's really America's lack of understanding -- no, refusal to accept -- how the different races live and act.

The Kerner Commission stated in 1968 that we were living in two Americas -- one black and one white. When we examine the TV shows we all watch, those in the top 10 for whites are vastly different than those for blacks. Musical tastes vary, so do cultural norms. We all kid ourselves that during March Madness, the courts are loaded with mostly African American ballplayers, yet when the College World Series tips off in May, you will see mostly whites on the baseball diamond.

But we are also separate when it comes to worship. The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said the most segregated hour of the week is 10 a.m. on Sunday morning. And it still is. For Christians, we may celebrate the same Jesus, but how we do so and with whom is very different.

I fundamentally believe that whites, blacks -- and yes, Hispanics and Asians -- reacted differently when hearing the snippets of Wright's preaching. Not solely because of content, but also style. For African Americans and a lot of Southern whites who are accustomed to a certain style of preaching, the thundering voice that drops to a whisper, the weaving of social issues with the theological, is common.

Even former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee -- while not embracing Wright -- agreed with that point.

Yet our view of America is also different. Justified? No. Just different.

While many white Americans will look at Memorial or Veterans Day as an opportunity to celebrate our armed forces, African Americans do the same, but also will think historically about black troops hung from trees, still in their uniforms. They will think of black soldiers returning home to America during World War II forced to sit in the back of the train, while German Nazis got to sit up front.

When Wright was castigated for being anti-American for saying "God damn America!" -- which was not delivered in his speech about September 11, 2001 -- I couldn't help but think about that famous speech Dr. King gave at Riverside Church on April 4, 1967, when he blasted America's involvement in the Vietnam War.

King was disowned by many of his supporters, was denounced as a traitor to the nation and his speaking fees dried up.

See, even the man who many conservatives quote today with fervor, was treated as an outcast in his own country.

Our shared experiences today may not be so raw and overt as America's racial past, but we can't forget how our past defines us today.

Are these excuses? Nope. Just a dose of reality.

I watched Joe Scarborough on MSNBC say, while qualifying that these weren't his views, that a blue-collar man in Youngstown, Ohio, didn't want to hear about race from a black man who went to Harvard and his black wife who went to Princeton.

He's probably right. But what Scarborough failed to mention is that same black man came from a single-parent home where the mom had to go on welfare just to feed her family. That same black woman lived in a two-bedroom home and saw her parents bust their butts to make ends meet, and scrape together every penny to send their children to the nation's finest schools.

Isn't that the dream of every white, blue-collar parent, and every black, blue-collar parent? So why should such success be seen as anger towards someone else?

When we sit down, break bread together and truly listen and learn from one another, our world view changes.

For the last few months I've seen that experience up close and personal at my church in Chicago, Illinois.

The Rev. James Meeks, founder and senior pastor of Salem Baptist Church, a predominantly black congregation, has been engaged in worship with another predominantly white mega-church, Willow Creek, led by its founder and senior pastor, Bill Hybels.

The pastors of Illinois' two largest churches have been engaged in the swapping of youth members and choirs, have preached at each other's church, and have made it their mission to break down the racial and economic walls that exist between Christians.

It has been rocky at times. Watching the faces of African Americans at a Willow Creek worship service, it is clear they find it a bit jarring -- from the style of preaching to the music. But the common denominator is the same: Jesus.

There is no doubt that a lot of Americans are angry and confused by Obama staying at Trinity United Church of Christ and not disowning his pastor.

Folks, that's just not what church folks do. I don't recall folks asking members of the Rev. Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson to leave their churches in droves. They knew their leaders are fallible and make mistakes. Should they be criticized for hateful and divisive comments? Absolutely. Disowned?

I would never say that.

This is an opportunity for us. Those of us in the media, as Obama said, can continue to run the same clips, but is that providing healing to America?

No.

What we can do is begin to show where communities are coming together, talking openly and honestly about their hurts, frustrations and pain. Will we get angry and upset because of the other person isn't fully getting what we are trying to say? Of course! But until we decide to look in that mirror, and confront our deep-seated fears of the other because of their race, religion and political affiliation, we'll remain a fractured nation.

The Bible says don't put new wine in old wine skins. So let's stop using the resentments and anger of the past against the people of today and the future.

So, what are YOU prepared to do?

Roland S. Martin is a nationally award-winning journalist and CNN contributor. Martin is studying to receive his master's degree in Christian communications at Louisiana Baptist University. You can read more of his columns at http://www.rolandsmartin.com/.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/21/roland.martin/index.html

Straw Man

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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2008, 10:04:08 PM »
I actually tried to read it, but he lost me here: 

Absolutely false.  The great "enabler" of slavery was racism, not Christianity.  ::)   

yep, plenty of racists used the bible to justify their actions

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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2008, 10:27:48 PM »
yep, plenty of racists used the bible to justify their actions

And plenty did not.  Racism, not Christianity, fueled slavery.  Some attempted to use the Bible to justify their racism, but the Bible isn't what enabled slavery.  That's simply historically inaccurate. 

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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2008, 10:31:26 PM »
And plenty did not.  Racism, not Christianity, fueled slavery.  Some attempted to use the Bible to justify their racism, but the Bible isn't what enabled slavery.  That's simply historically inaccurate. 

the bible certainly enabled slavery

It didn't create it but it was used extensively as proof that God condoned it


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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2008, 01:36:04 AM »
He got fvcking owned by Reza Aslan  ;D

He did not. More like a draw.
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haider

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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2008, 08:44:08 AM »
He did not. More like a draw.
Bullshit, Sam almost fvcking passed out from being embarassed.

Just an observation, it's all good  ;D
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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2008, 09:42:08 PM »
Bullshit, Sam almost fvcking passed out from being embarassed.

Just an observation, it's all good  ;D

How did Reza show that the Koran is the infallible word of the Creator of the universe, if I may ask? If he did not do that, then I do not think he won.
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calmus

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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2008, 09:45:33 PM »
And plenty did not.  Racism, not Christianity, fueled slavery.  Some attempted to use the Bible to justify their racism, but the Bible isn't what enabled slavery.  That's simply historically inaccurate. 

Is there anybody here who really thinks that if beach bum had lived in the 1850s he would not have been a staunch supporter of slavery?  ::)

Is there a bigger/more devious supporter of the status quo on here?   

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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2008, 09:47:31 PM »
Is there anybody here who really thinks that if beach bum had lived in the 1850s he would not have been a staunch supporter of slavery?  ::)

Is there a bigger/more devious supporter of the status quo on here?   

Wait til obama wins the white house.

beach bum will be the biggest liberal socialist on here.  He'll defend anything obama does.  He'll say he was rooting for this 'agent of change' all along.

haider

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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2008, 09:50:27 PM »
How did Reza show that the Koran is the infallible word of the Creator of the universe, if I may ask? If he did not do that, then I do not think he won.
That's not even what the debate was about. Sam's ignorance about the subject was completely exposed, which left him grasping for straws and trying to hold on to his conciousness  ;D I actually felt bad for the guy.

I don't think Reza Aslan has ever went on a show to preach Islam, quite obviously because he is NOT a preacher. I guess you have always ahve trouble staying on topic  ;)
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calmus

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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2008, 09:52:27 PM »
That's not even what the debate was about. Sam's ignorance about the subject was completely exposed, which left him grasping for straws and trying to hold on to his conciousness  ;D I actually felt bad for the guy.

I don't think Reza Aslan has ever went on a show to preach Islam, quite obviously because he is NOT a preacher. I guess you have always ahve trouble staying on topic  ;)

Who's Reza Aslan? An Iranian named after the main character in the Chronicles of Narniarr?

haider

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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2008, 09:55:55 PM »
Who's Reza Aslan? An Iranian named after the main character in the Chronicles of Narniarr?
Scholar of religion and middle eastern studies.
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calmus

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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2008, 09:56:44 PM »
Scholar of religion and middle eastern studies.

Link to university where he teaches or something. 

haider

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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2008, 09:58:18 PM »
Link to university where he teaches or something. 
I don't really know much abt him, just watched the debate between him and harris. ya know, google is quite handy these days when tryin to find info on some one, I suggest u try it yourself  ;D
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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2008, 05:52:42 AM »
He got fvcking owned by Reza Aslan  ;D

Haha, haven't we been through this? Your delusions (faith in the koran) and this statement are idiotic.

And plenty did not.  Racism, not Christianity, fueled slavery.  Some attempted to use the Bible to justify their racism, but the Bible isn't what enabled slavery.  That's simply historically inaccurate. 

Maybe it was the koran? :P

The koran promotes slavery.
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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2008, 06:00:29 AM »
I actually tried to read it, but he lost me here: 

Absolutely false.  The great "enabler" of slavery was racism, not Christianity.  ::)   

No actually it was Christianity bro, in a round about way

See we had something in the 15th century called 'protestant work ethic" and the composer of "Amazing Grace" our good old boy John Newton, was indeed a slave trader, slaves were not seen as people mind you, and they were assets that England was being allowed to take because the African kings of Medullow (sp) and Sierra Leone were being bribed.
Later on it was a spread of Calvinsism.


On a side note anyone that teaches Middle Eastern religion and is not a middle eastern kinda can't back it up, because some stuff the books don't and won teach

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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2008, 06:19:32 AM »
Throwing the accusation of being a true racist is a heavy thing calmus.  From the short time I have been here, I don't see BeachBum as being racist.  He has different views from you.  In reality, you are very liberal man...thats cool, it gives us a mix and different ideas to debate.  Save the racist label for people that really deserve it.  I think this a big mistake by some liberal minded people, just because others may not agree with ultra liberal policies or reparations or may criticize minority activists doesn't mean they don't understand or are racist.  Maybe BeachBum has other posts that I haven't seen in the last couple weeks but be cautious when using the term racist.  That has strong meaning and should be substantiated.


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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2008, 06:20:05 AM »
That's not even what the debate was about. Sam's ignorance about the subject was completely exposed, which left him grasping for straws and trying to hold on to his conciousness  ;D I actually felt bad for the guy.

I don't think Reza Aslan has ever went on a show to preach Islam, quite obviously because he is NOT a preacher.

Okay, I just youtubed the debate. Never heard of either one until today.

I have to agree with Haider. Reza Aslan made an extremely compelling case for his argument, while Sam Harris appeared to be clinging to a conclusion that was very skillfullly dismantled by Reza.

ps: It's really refreshing to see a debate without childish attempts to demean, belittle, and humiliate your opponent.
It's like we've been trained to view debate as spectacles for entertainment rather than forums for enlightenment.
w

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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2008, 06:21:35 AM »
I don't agree with most of Obama's policies but among the positives with him being president is verifying exactly how far this country has come and showing minority youth, by example, a way to act and carry oneself to be successful.  Just as death metal culture wasn't very productive at giving the kids the tools and work ethic they needed to succeed, rap has done the same thing with this generation.  It has glorified traits that are antagonistic to success while promoting material goods and defiant attitudes (and lowered the quality of musicianship in music...as most real musicians agree).

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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2008, 06:22:36 AM »
A different perspective:

Commentary: Race, faith and politics

By Roland S. Martin
CNN Contributor
    
(CNN) -- The revelation of controversial comments made by the longtime pastor of Sen. Barack Obama, and the equally hot aftermath from the general public that led to the junior senator from Illinois delivering a strong speech/sermon on race in America, has opened anew the explosive connection between three of the most volatile issues today.

If a poll were taken, there is no doubt that race, faith and politics would be the most emotional, passionate and divisive topics. Why? Because all three are so deeply personal. What one person sees as a negative, another would determine as a strength.

Republicans strongly believe that they are superior and right on the direction of the nation compared to Democrats. African Americans are protective of their culture and ways of living, while whites routinely ask why we can't just be one nation with no labels. Catholics contend they are the one and only true church, while Baptists will say that being dipped in the water after making a personal decision to give your life to Christ is the true way of salvation for the believer.

As a Christian, I've seen church members go toe-to-toe when discussing either one of these issues, and can remember some late night debates in college that would have made the toes of Lincoln and Douglas curl.

So why did the comments of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright strike such a core, and how did it lead to Obama to give a speech on race? That was the question posed to me in a number of e-mails, and like Obama stated in his speech, it's really America's lack of understanding -- no, refusal to accept -- how the different races live and act.

The Kerner Commission stated in 1968 that we were living in two Americas -- one black and one white. When we examine the TV shows we all watch, those in the top 10 for whites are vastly different than those for blacks. Musical tastes vary, so do cultural norms. We all kid ourselves that during March Madness, the courts are loaded with mostly African American ballplayers, yet when the College World Series tips off in May, you will see mostly whites on the baseball diamond.

But we are also separate when it comes to worship. The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said the most segregated hour of the week is 10 a.m. on Sunday morning. And it still is. For Christians, we may celebrate the same Jesus, but how we do so and with whom is very different.

I fundamentally believe that whites, blacks -- and yes, Hispanics and Asians -- reacted differently when hearing the snippets of Wright's preaching. Not solely because of content, but also style. For African Americans and a lot of Southern whites who are accustomed to a certain style of preaching, the thundering voice that drops to a whisper, the weaving of social issues with the theological, is common.

Even former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee -- while not embracing Wright -- agreed with that point.

Yet our view of America is also different. Justified? No. Just different.

While many white Americans will look at Memorial or Veterans Day as an opportunity to celebrate our armed forces, African Americans do the same, but also will think historically about black troops hung from trees, still in their uniforms. They will think of black soldiers returning home to America during World War II forced to sit in the back of the train, while German Nazis got to sit up front.

When Wright was castigated for being anti-American for saying "God damn America!" -- which was not delivered in his speech about September 11, 2001 -- I couldn't help but think about that famous speech Dr. King gave at Riverside Church on April 4, 1967, when he blasted America's involvement in the Vietnam War.

King was disowned by many of his supporters, was denounced as a traitor to the nation and his speaking fees dried up.

See, even the man who many conservatives quote today with fervor, was treated as an outcast in his own country.

Our shared experiences today may not be so raw and overt as America's racial past, but we can't forget how our past defines us today.

Are these excuses? Nope. Just a dose of reality.

I watched Joe Scarborough on MSNBC say, while qualifying that these weren't his views, that a blue-collar man in Youngstown, Ohio, didn't want to hear about race from a black man who went to Harvard and his black wife who went to Princeton.

He's probably right. But what Scarborough failed to mention is that same black man came from a single-parent home where the mom had to go on welfare just to feed her family. That same black woman lived in a two-bedroom home and saw her parents bust their butts to make ends meet, and scrape together every penny to send their children to the nation's finest schools.

Isn't that the dream of every white, blue-collar parent, and every black, blue-collar parent? So why should such success be seen as anger towards someone else?

When we sit down, break bread together and truly listen and learn from one another, our world view changes.

For the last few months I've seen that experience up close and personal at my church in Chicago, Illinois.

The Rev. James Meeks, founder and senior pastor of Salem Baptist Church, a predominantly black congregation, has been engaged in worship with another predominantly white mega-church, Willow Creek, led by its founder and senior pastor, Bill Hybels.

The pastors of Illinois' two largest churches have been engaged in the swapping of youth members and choirs, have preached at each other's church, and have made it their mission to break down the racial and economic walls that exist between Christians.

It has been rocky at times. Watching the faces of African Americans at a Willow Creek worship service, it is clear they find it a bit jarring -- from the style of preaching to the music. But the common denominator is the same: Jesus.

There is no doubt that a lot of Americans are angry and confused by Obama staying at Trinity United Church of Christ and not disowning his pastor.

Folks, that's just not what church folks do. I don't recall folks asking members of the Rev. Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson to leave their churches in droves. They knew their leaders are fallible and make mistakes. Should they be criticized for hateful and divisive comments? Absolutely. Disowned?

I would never say that.

This is an opportunity for us. Those of us in the media, as Obama said, can continue to run the same clips, but is that providing healing to America?

No.

What we can do is begin to show where communities are coming together, talking openly and honestly about their hurts, frustrations and pain. Will we get angry and upset because of the other person isn't fully getting what we are trying to say? Of course! But until we decide to look in that mirror, and confront our deep-seated fears of the other because of their race, religion and political affiliation, we'll remain a fractured nation.

The Bible says don't put new wine in old wine skins. So let's stop using the resentments and anger of the past against the people of today and the future.

So, what are YOU prepared to do?

Roland S. Martin is a nationally award-winning journalist and CNN contributor. Martin is studying to receive his master's degree in Christian communications at Louisiana Baptist University. You can read more of his columns at http://www.rolandsmartin.com/.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/21/roland.martin/index.html


Very well reasoned plea for sanity.  :)
w

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Re: Atheistic Horseman of the Apocalypse Sam Harris slams Obama!
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2008, 06:32:07 AM »
Throwing the accusation of being a true racist is a heavy thing calmus.  From the short time I have been here, I don't see BeachBum as being racist.  He has different views from you.  In reality, you are very liberal man...thats cool, it gives us a mix and different ideas to debate.  Save the racist label for people that really deserve it.  I think this a big mistake by some liberal minded people, just because others may not agree with ultra liberal policies or reparations or may criticize minority activists doesn't mean they don't understand or are racist.  Maybe BeachBum has other posts that I haven't seen in the last couple weeks but be cautious when using the term racist.  That has strong meaning and should be substantiated.


Shootfighter,
Calmus is NOT accusing Beachbum of being a racist, IMO, but of being a "devious supporter of the status quo".

A bigot or a racist has convictions in his/her beliefs (no matter how misguided they may be)
I think what Calmus is saying is that BB goes whichever way the wind blows... a go along to get along kind of guy,
and during the 1850's, slavery, and owning slaves was the status quo. No one is accusing him of racism.

If I am incorrect in my interpretation your remarks, then Calmus, please feel free to correct me.
w