Author Topic: The Day Of Debt  (Read 5576 times)

The Coach

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The Day Of Debt
« on: March 23, 2008, 10:24:31 AM »
The observances of Good Friday and Easter Sunday have perpetuated the traditional chronology that the crucifixion took place on a Friday, and that the Lord's body was buried on that day at about 6:00 p.m., and that he rose from the dead early on the following Sunday morning. 

There are some, however, that feel this tradition is at variance with the Scriptural record.  The traditional view seems to conflict with certain prophetic and legal facts.

"Three Days"

One of the problems is reckoning "three days" between Friday evening and Sunday morning.  I was once co-hosting a national TV show which had the famed apologist John Warwick Montgomery as a guest.  This issue came up, and John rendered the traditional rationalization, pointing out that the Jews reckoned a partial day as a whole day.

I turned to my co-host and explained, "You must remember that John is an attorney, and that's the way they bill!" 

(John almost fell out of his chair laughing - he hadn't realized that I was well aware of his distinguished legal background.)

But the difficulty remains.  Our Lord's definitive statement is one of the problems:

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.   -Matthew 12:40

The mention of nights, as well as the number of days, makes it hard to render this as simply an idiomatic rhetorical device rather than a statement of fact. 

Further, when Paul declares the resurrection of Christ to be "according to the Scriptures" in 1 Corinthians 15:4, if this isn't an allusion to Jonah 1:17, then where else?  (Perhaps, in Genesis 22, the three days between the "death" of Isaac - when the commandment came - and his "return" to Abraham may have been the macrocode, or typological allusion, that Paul might have had in mind.1 )

Intensifying this controversy was the "three days" issue at the trial of Jesus.

Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death; But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, [yet] found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, And said, This [fellow] said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.  -Matthew 26:59-61

What did Jesus really say?

Destroy this temple, [of His body] and in three days I will raise it up.  -John 2:19

The same phrase reoccurs in the gospels a dozen times.2   It also seems to frequently reoccur in prophetic patterns.3

The Sabbaths

Nowhere in the Gospels does it assert that Christ was crucified on a Friday.  In Mark 15:42, it refers to "...the day before the sabbath."  This may be the root of the misunderstanding. 

The Jews had other sabbaths in addition to the weekly shabbat (Saturday).  In addition to the weekly sabbaths, there were seven "high sabbaths" each year, and the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the 15th of Nisan, was one of them.4   

Further, Matthew 28:1 should read, "At the end of the sabbaths ,"5  (which is plural in the Greek), implying there was a plurality of sabbaths that week.

If Passover, the 14th of Nisan, fell earlier in the week, the 15th could have been any day prior to Saturday, the weekly sabbath.  "When the sabbaths were past" would, of course, be Sunday (actually, Saturday after sundown), in accordance to the Feast of First Fruits.  (Some hold to a Thursday crucifixion on a similar basis.)

The 17th of Nisan

Jesus had declared that He would be in the grave three days, and yet was to be resurrected "on the morrow after the sabbath," on the day of the Feast of First Fruits.6   

It is interesting that the authorities, anxious to get the body off the cross before sundown, unknowingly were fulfilling God's predetermined plan, "according to the Scriptures."7

Noah's flood ended on the 17th day of the 7th month.8  This month becomes the 1st month at the institution of the Passover.9   Our new beginning in Christ was on the anniversary of the Earth's "new beginning" under Noah!

Israel's new beginning, the crossing of the Red Sea, is believed to have been on the 17th of Nisan.  Also, in their flight after Passover, Israel retrieved the body of Joseph from his tomb.  After Passover, Jesus was retrieved from another Joseph's tomb on this date.

The Jericho Journey

Another problem with a Friday crucifixion is John 12:1: "Then Jesus six days before the Passover came to Bethany..." (from Jericho).  If the Friday view can be accepted, then six days earlier was the weekly shabbat , and on this day such a journey was legally out of the question for a devout Jew.

Summary

As for the Friday or Wednesday issue, there are many good scholars on each side of this controversy.  I personally have become rather cynical toward any tradition that is not supported by Scripture. 

Good Friday is the "traditional" view.  The Wednesday crucifixion is known as the "reconstructed view."  This article is intended to stimulate study and constructive conversation during this precious season.  One attempt to reconcile the chronology of the entire week is shown in the inset boxes [Friday-Tuesday] and [Wednesday-Sunday].

The important thing is that the tomb was empty .  The authorities made sure that this was indisputable. Indeed, He is risen!

The most important chapter in the Bible is 1 Corinthians 15.  We encourage you to study it very carefully.  (Also, note our special briefing packages, Agony of Love and From Here to Eternity.)

*  *  *


YoungBlood

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2008, 10:42:00 AM »
Hey Religious Fuck....

There is an entire board for you to post on...the appropriate one too!!! >:(

chaos

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2008, 10:42:58 AM »
That is quite the meltdown for so early in the morning Coach, you get sloshed last night?
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

haider

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2008, 10:43:40 AM »
Happy Easter Joe!!

follow the arrows

Rearden Metal

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2008, 10:48:38 AM »
BAN

Red Hook

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2008, 11:19:47 AM »
JoeLocal needs HRT to look like 2 lbs of shit stuffed in a condom
I

dr.chimps

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2008, 12:10:00 PM »
Senor Loco needs to repent/atone for something, methinks? Gotta get some transgression off your chest, Joe, but can't come right out and say it?  Stop beating around the (burning) bush and tell us. We're all friends, here.   :D

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2008, 12:13:15 PM »
zzzzzzzzzz

Gym dude

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2008, 12:17:03 PM »
I am thinking that as well zzzzz is right.

The Coach

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2008, 01:21:02 PM »
Its Easter....get over it!

The Coach

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2008, 01:21:02 PM »
Its Easter....get over it!

SirTraps

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2008, 01:28:34 PM »
Thanks for that post Coach, others should wake up and show a little tolerance.

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2008, 01:40:01 PM »
Okay, Joe,  I read your long-ass post, and I have to say...   I'm a few IQ points dumber for having done so.


Wedneday, Friday....  who cares?

Ron: "I am lazy."

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2008, 01:40:18 PM »
I think religion is dumb, wanna hear about the girl that came into the guys lockers?

Moosejay

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2008, 03:31:28 PM »
JoeLocal needs HRT to look like 2 lbs of shit stuffed in a condom

Joe is a very good bodybuilder....you have no honor.

Tre

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2008, 03:47:23 PM »

Who stole Jesus' body? 

Van_Bilderass

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2008, 04:04:16 PM »
Goddamn pagan (satanic) holidays!

Earl1972

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2008, 04:16:36 PM »
The observances of Good Friday and Easter Sunday have perpetuated the traditional chronology that the crucifixion took place on a Friday, and that the Lord's body was buried on that day at about 6:00 p.m., and that he rose from the dead early on the following Sunday morning. 

There are some, however, that feel this tradition is at variance with the Scriptural record.  The traditional view seems to conflict with certain prophetic and legal facts.

"Three Days"

One of the problems is reckoning "three days" between Friday evening and Sunday morning.  I was once co-hosting a national TV show which had the famed apologist John Warwick Montgomery as a guest.  This issue came up, and John rendered the traditional rationalization, pointing out that the Jews reckoned a partial day as a whole day.

I turned to my co-host and explained, "You must remember that John is an attorney, and that's the way they bill!" 

(John almost fell out of his chair laughing - he hadn't realized that I was well aware of his distinguished legal background.)

But the difficulty remains.  Our Lord's definitive statement is one of the problems:

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.   -Matthew 12:40

The mention of nights, as well as the number of days, makes it hard to render this as simply an idiomatic rhetorical device rather than a statement of fact. 

Further, when Paul declares the resurrection of Christ to be "according to the Scriptures" in 1 Corinthians 15:4, if this isn't an allusion to Jonah 1:17, then where else?  (Perhaps, in Genesis 22, the three days between the "death" of Isaac - when the commandment came - and his "return" to Abraham may have been the macrocode, or typological allusion, that Paul might have had in mind.1 )

Intensifying this controversy was the "three days" issue at the trial of Jesus.

Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death; But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, [yet] found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, And said, This [fellow] said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.  -Matthew 26:59-61

What did Jesus really say?

Destroy this temple, [of His body] and in three days I will raise it up.  -John 2:19

The same phrase reoccurs in the gospels a dozen times.2   It also seems to frequently reoccur in prophetic patterns.3

The Sabbaths

Nowhere in the Gospels does it assert that Christ was crucified on a Friday.  In Mark 15:42, it refers to "...the day before the sabbath."  This may be the root of the misunderstanding. 

The Jews had other sabbaths in addition to the weekly shabbat (Saturday).  In addition to the weekly sabbaths, there were seven "high sabbaths" each year, and the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the 15th of Nisan, was one of them.4   

Further, Matthew 28:1 should read, "At the end of the sabbaths ,"5  (which is plural in the Greek), implying there was a plurality of sabbaths that week.

If Passover, the 14th of Nisan, fell earlier in the week, the 15th could have been any day prior to Saturday, the weekly sabbath.  "When the sabbaths were past" would, of course, be Sunday (actually, Saturday after sundown), in accordance to the Feast of First Fruits.  (Some hold to a Thursday crucifixion on a similar basis.)

The 17th of Nisan

Jesus had declared that He would be in the grave three days, and yet was to be resurrected "on the morrow after the sabbath," on the day of the Feast of First Fruits.6   

It is interesting that the authorities, anxious to get the body off the cross before sundown, unknowingly were fulfilling God's predetermined plan, "according to the Scriptures."7

Noah's flood ended on the 17th day of the 7th month.8  This month becomes the 1st month at the institution of the Passover.9   Our new beginning in Christ was on the anniversary of the Earth's "new beginning" under Noah!

Israel's new beginning, the crossing of the Red Sea, is believed to have been on the 17th of Nisan.  Also, in their flight after Passover, Israel retrieved the body of Joseph from his tomb.  After Passover, Jesus was retrieved from another Joseph's tomb on this date.

The Jericho Journey

Another problem with a Friday crucifixion is John 12:1: "Then Jesus six days before the Passover came to Bethany..." (from Jericho).  If the Friday view can be accepted, then six days earlier was the weekly shabbat , and on this day such a journey was legally out of the question for a devout Jew.

Summary

As for the Friday or Wednesday issue, there are many good scholars on each side of this controversy.  I personally have become rather cynical toward any tradition that is not supported by Scripture. 

Good Friday is the "traditional" view.  The Wednesday crucifixion is known as the "reconstructed view."  This article is intended to stimulate study and constructive conversation during this precious season.  One attempt to reconcile the chronology of the entire week is shown in the inset boxes [Friday-Tuesday] and [Wednesday-Sunday].

The important thing is that the tomb was empty .  The authorities made sure that this was indisputable. Indeed, He is risen!

The most important chapter in the Bible is 1 Corinthians 15.  We encourage you to study it very carefully.  (Also, note our special briefing packages, Agony of Love and From Here to Eternity.)

*  *  *





E
E

Van_Bilderass

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2008, 05:33:00 PM »
That's a very gay pic you posted Earl

Earl1972

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2008, 05:37:05 PM »
it fits this thread

E
E

CoolDuck

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2008, 05:43:53 PM »
The observances of Good Friday and Easter Sunday have perpetuated the traditional chronology that the crucifixion took place on a Friday, and that the Lord's body was buried on that day at about 6:00 p.m., and that he rose from the dead early on the following Sunday morning. 

The worst thing about the fairytale of the crucifiction is that Jesus supposedly did a favor for me that I never asked of him, only to rectify the mistakes of the old-testament god who couldn't take responsibility for his own mistakes  ;D.

CD

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2008, 05:47:32 PM »

"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.   -Matthew 12:40"


this refers to equal time in darkness and light. good and bad, the polarity of life simply. our purpose in life is to learn a lesson everyday maybe more than just one a day, you are in darkness when you dont know you have to self experiment to pass the lesson. trial and error is darkness and light when you learn

man came from water , we are water bodies we are born of earth, some perhaps planted here but i feel humans are born from a water body, doesnt have to be planet earths water body, other planets/solar systems

everyone is paying there dues and everyone is learning or not learning or in denial or chosing not to learn and conform to mediocre plans
A

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2008, 06:23:38 PM »
In Christianity,falcon is sometimes seen as a symbol of hope, strength, fulfillment of the messianic promise and Resurrection.  The birds of prey are often associated with visions of powerful angels and God on his thrown in the Old Testament.

Spirit of Truth

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2008, 06:34:36 PM »
In Christianity,falcon is sometimes seen as a symbol of hope, strength, fulfillment of the messianic promise and Resurrection.  The birds of prey are often associated with visions of powerful angels and God on his thrown in the Old Testament.



i had a wild day today. been following the ascension diet. i notice veins in my abs that i havent seen. im gaining weight but good weight


many thoughts racing through me today

i honestly went through about 15 whole grapefruit 2 cans of grapefruit juice  12 eggs for breakfast with grapes. and a whole jar of almond butter

 

Dear Beloved Ascending Human,

 

Earth would like to address the issue of diet in ascension.  Ascending into the crystalline structure  may create a very different type of diet to support such a biology.  The crystalline form is founded upon the fat known as cholesterol which surrounds each cell, and holds a higher frequency.  Fat modulates frequencies far better than proteins or minerals; this is because fat was designed to move energy through and around it that this is so.  (See "Ascending Into Regenerative Biology" for more information on crystalline biology.)


more here
A

Marty Champions

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Re: The Day Of Debt
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2008, 06:35:59 PM »
 Ascension makes possible a new life to blossom that is disease free, pain free, and restores the ability for each to become the dreamer and the dream.  Through ascension, one may learn to consciously dream weave and intend one's life, and then live to experience the life intended.  This is the gift of ascension.
A