Author Topic: anti-aromatose/anti-estrogen (Read 2219 times)

candidizzle · « **on:** March 23, 2008, 12:04:35 PM »

hey i have a question..

so i have heard(and noticed) that estrogen works to help you grow faster. and that is why aromatizing steroids give better gains than non-aromatizing steroids. if thats the case, then a mass cycle should be devoid of anti-aromatoe products like arimidex, letrozole.. that prevent the conversion of test into estrogen... BUT letting all that test convert into estrogen can result in bad side effects.

personally, i think the only side effect from estrogen that i would want to cease is the development of gyno. i definitely want to be abl to reap the mass gains of estrogen, and th fatttening effects i can control with diet and cardio.

so...i was thinking...how could i get the mass benefits of estrogen, but without gettting gyno? i would need something that doesnt stop the aromitization, but does stop the females fat deposits in the breats tissue.

isnt that what clomid and nolvadex do? (breast tissue specific anti estrogens?)

Emmortal · « **Reply #1 on:** March 23, 2008, 12:40:30 PM »

I think you're misunderstanding estrogens role in growth. You want to have estrogen in your of course, but too much of it can be a big problem, too little can also be a big problem as well. Too much of it can cause all kinds of problems from sexual function, sex drive, gyno mood swings etc, too little can cause things such as joint pain and can limit growth to an extent. AI's control the excess estrogen being aromatized keeping it in check and not allowing it to go too high. Some people use them too much and actually go overboard with them, the trick is finding out what works for you and not letting it get too high or too low. Personally I'd never not run an AI on cycle, all of my cycles include Aromasin or Adex.

Big_Tymer · « **Reply #2 on:** March 23, 2008, 02:18:25 PM »

you could just use nolvadex 20mg/day. that would allow estrogen to be produced normally, but keep you from gyno in most cases

candidizzle · « **Reply #3 on:** March 23, 2008, 02:20:46 PM »

is clomid interchangeable with nolvadex? ( of course, higher doses)

Emmortal · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2008, 03:27:59 PM »

Quote from: Big_Tymer on March 23, 2008, 02:18:25 PM

you could just use nolvadex 20mg/day. that would allow estrogen to be produced normally, but keep you from gyno in most cases

The problem is you still have elevated estrogen levels in your body which Nolva will not handle.

Luv2Hurt · « **Reply #5 on:** March 23, 2008, 05:23:09 PM »

Quote from: Big_Tymer on March 23, 2008, 02:18:25 PM

you could just use nolvadex 20mg/day. that would allow estrogen to be produced normally, but keep you from gyno in most cases

Good advice, and you may be able to get away with 10mg Nolvadex ED

Big_Tymer · « **Reply #6 on:** March 23, 2008, 05:25:34 PM »

Quote from: Emmortal on March 23, 2008, 03:27:59 PM

The problem is you still have elevated estrogen levels in your body which Nolva will not handle.

his main concern is not developing gyno, which in MOST cases 20mg/day nolva will perform well.

personally I dont like the AI route, as .25mg/day of letro destroyed my libido and stopped all my gains, I didnt gain a single pound once I started using it, but I did look insane on it, very tight and dry.

To each his own, everyone responds differently.

candidizzle · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23, 2008, 07:21:01 PM »

i think i understand now....most people go the way of letro and arimidex because elevated estrgen can be bad for health, but for those only worried about their physiques; not health, then nolva would work to stop gyno but let estrogen become elevated.

yeah???

Slintowin4424 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2008, 07:25:45 PM »

THe problem is when you go off and the receptors open back up what do you think will happened

candidizzle · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2008, 07:27:14 PM »

Quote from: Slintowin4424 on March 23, 2008, 07:25:45 PM

THe problem is when you go off and the receptors open back up what do you think will happened

couldnt i continue on the nolva all the way through pct...thus avoiding the rebound effect...

Mega Man · « **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2008, 08:07:29 PM »

That's what I read.....I'm gonna start my first cycle soon!

Something to add though....I read that if you take letro or a strong AI, when you stop you should take nolva to prevent a big estrogen rebound effect. I guess similar to tapering down off of clen or something....is this correct?

Big_Tymer · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2008, 10:14:29 PM »

Quote from: Mega Man on March 23, 2008, 08:07:29 PM

That's what I read.....I'm gonna start my first cycle soon!

Something to add though....I read that if you take letro or a strong AI, when you stop you should take nolva to prevent a big estrogen rebound effect. I guess similar to tapering down off of clen or something....is this correct?

yes this is correct. .25mg/day letro stops around 96% of all estrogen production in your body, so when you stop taking it there will be a big rebound effect. start taking 20mg/day of nolva the day before you stop the letro to prevent this from turning into potential gyno.

Mega Man · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2008, 10:16:07 PM »

are axio labs anti E's any good? like their arimidex and letro?

Big_Tymer · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2008, 10:17:11 PM »

Quote from: Mega Man on March 23, 2008, 10:16:07 PM

are axio labs anti E's any good? like their arimidex and letro?

i used their clomid and letro, it aint bad.

Slintowin4424 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 23, 2008, 10:20:17 PM »

Quote from: candidizzle on March 23, 2008, 07:27:14 PM

couldnt i continue on the nolva all the way through pct...thus avoiding the rebound effect...

YOu can do this but you have to be very careful with clomid that stuff can give you some wicked gyno I suggest staying away from the juice brother push your body to its natural limit and then make a decision you never know maybe you will be the first mr. olympia whos natural

4thAD · « **Reply #15 on:** March 23, 2008, 11:45:33 PM »

The Idea with estrogen control IMO is to keep estrogen as close to normal levels as possible!

Tapeworm · « **Reply #16 on:** March 24, 2008, 01:19:34 AM »

This brings up a very basic point which I've never seen addressed: How is estrogen "metabolized?" That is, what becomes of E2 which doesn't find its way to the receptor (which is presumably blocked by nolva)? Does it just hang around waiting for an available receptor (so you get E rebound) or does your body clear it out?

delta9mda · « **Reply #17 on:** March 24, 2008, 01:32:54 PM »

Quote from: candidizzle on March 23, 2008, 02:20:46 PM

is clomid interchangeable with nolvadex? ( of course, higher doses)

dude come on, you play it off like you know alot of shit and now asking basic gear questions. Guys, please give straight answers so the kid doesnt fuck himself up. ai stops the conversion of your blessed test to estrogen. Anti e's will park in the receptor for estrogen, effectively blocking it.

Van_Bilderass · « **Reply #18 on:** March 24, 2008, 01:55:53 PM »

I think you shouldn't mess with estrogen unless it becomes a problem, for example your tits start itching.

It's better not to add another drug with its own set of side-effects if you don't need it. These drugs can be toxic, can fuck up your eye sight, etc etc. Just keep nolva on had in case of trouble.

DIVISION · « **Reply #19 on:** March 24, 2008, 03:13:30 PM »

Quote from: candidizzle on March 23, 2008, 12:04:35 PM

hey i have a question..

so i have heard(and noticed) that estrogen works to help you grow faster. and that is why aromatizing steroids give better gains than non-aromatizing steroids. if thats the case, then a mass cycle should be devoid of anti-aromatoe products like arimidex, letrozole.. that prevent the conversion of test into estrogen... BUT letting all that test convert into estrogen can result in bad side effects.

personally, i think the only side effect from estrogen that i would want to cease is the development of gyno. i definitely want to be abl to reap the mass gains of estrogen, and th fatttening effects i can control with diet and cardio.

so...i was thinking...how could i get the mass benefits of estrogen, but without gettting gyno? i would need something that doesnt stop the aromitization, but does stop the females fat deposits in the breats tissue.

isnt that what clomid and nolvadex do? (breast tissue specific anti estrogens?)

This is an age old question which has been asked many, many, many times by youngsters like yourself.

The answers are the same.

The threads are still here.

Look for them.

Read, baby dizzle.

Reading is fundamental.

DIV

Luv2Hurt · « **Reply #20 on:** March 24, 2008, 05:11:27 PM »

Nolvadex is a SERM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_estrogen_receptor_modulator

Nolvadex does a good job of blocking estrogen (E) in breast tissue, thats why it is effective against gyno. Nolvadex may actually increase E in other areas predominately the midsection, so with nolva you may find yourself holding water and fat in those areas, these are known as estrogenic side effects.

This is why nolvadex is a poor choice while trying to really get in shape. I would say Nolva would be a good idea on bulking cycles at low doses maybe 10mg ED max. Nolva is also said to reduce circulating IGF-1 so it may inhibit gains to some degree, especially if too much is taken and 20 mg is a big dose. So yes you will probally get your biggest and strongest with no E control. But if E gets out of control it will lead to other unpleasant sides such as gyno, BPH is said to begin from a spike in E levels also.

You may feel the serms or AI's are preventing big gains but I have found this is not the case. The gains made will be more solid and you will look better carrying less fat and water.

Tapeworm · « **Reply #21 on:** March 24, 2008, 07:22:51 PM »

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24290

Author Topic: anti-aromatose/anti-estrogen (Read 2219 times)

4thAD