Obama and his pastor are not true Christians

[240 is Back]

I heard this today, and wasn't sure why.   Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

If you agree, please list the things that both Obama, and his pastor, have said, which are "un-Christian".

No, what I said was, liberals can't be true Christians, since a lot of they're beliefs go aginst scripture. Obama and his Pastor are great example of that.

[Butterbean]

The biblical definition (simplified) of a Christian is someone who realizes their need for a savior and has accepted Jesus Christ as such.

IMO, If those dudes have accepted Christ as Savior they are Christians.  If not, then they are not.

[Dos Equis]

I agree with Stella.  I'd add that a pastor's job when preaching is to help bring people closer to Christ.  I don't think the sermons that are causing the raucous were designed to minister to people, so from that standpoint I don't think those portions of his sermons were consistent with his role as a pastor. 

[Deicide]

I heard this today, and wasn't sure why.   Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

If you agree, please list the things that both Obama, and his pastor, have said, which are "un-Christian".

Does he lie a lot?

[The Coach]

The biblical definition (simplified) of a Christian is someone who realizes their need for a savior and has accepted Jesus Christ as such.

IMO, If those dudes have accepted Christ as Savior they are Christians.  If not, then they are not.

Yes Stella, it does say that, BUT, this is the problem, If you realize your sins and repent, then yes, but if you continually go against Gods word with no remorse and preach hate and not live how He wanted us to live (for Him). Wright Is a Pastor, he is supposed to preach the word God, not black, white or anything else exept the word of God. As you know, Jesus' teachings are about love, not preaching sepratism.

Obama, acted in a different way against what scripture has taught, he either authored or back a bill passing partial birth abortion, making it legal to young teen to get an abortion and not inform the parents, he voted no to require schools to install software to block pornography......to me, this voting record reflects the opposite of what scripture teaches us.

[Hedgehog]

Yes Stella, it does say that, BUT, this is the problem, If you realize your sins and repent, then yes, but if you continually go against Gods word with no remorse and preach hate and not live how He wanted us to live (for Him). Wright Is a Pastor, he is supposed to preach the word God, not black, white or anything else exept the word of God. As you know, Jesus' teachings are about love, not preaching sepratism.

Obama, acted in a different way against what scripture has taught, he either authored or back a bill passing partial birth abortion, making it legal to young teen to get an abortion and not inform the parents, he voted no to require schools to install software to block pornography......to me, this voting record reflects the opposite of what scripture teaches us.

You still don't get it, do you?

If you accept Jesus Christ as the savior of your sins, then you're a Christian.

Regardless how you live your life.

You can be a pedophile, a murderer, a gangbanger, whatever.

But you will still remain a Christian and go to heaven.

Why?

Because Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice, and died on the cross for us.

He gave his life, don't you think it should be good enough to make up for sins of pedophiles, of murderers, et al?

If you don't think so, I guess you do not believe that Jesus was really the son of God?

[The Coach]

You still don't get it, do you?

If you accept Jesus Christ as the savior of your sins, then you're a Christian.

Regardless how you live your life.

You can be a pedophile, a murderer, a gangbanger, whatever.

But you will still remain a Christian and go to heaven.

Why?

Because Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice, and died on the cross for us.

He gave his life, don't you think it should be good enough to make up for sins of pedophiles, of murderers, et al?

If you don't think so, I guess you do not believe that Jesus was really the son of God?

You're not telling me anything I don't already know, of course I "get it",  no sin is not greater than another, I guess my question is does Wright get it? If he is, he does not act like one let alone the leader of a church which leads me to the question is he really saved? He is using the pulpit not to teach the word of God but rather for political reasons. None what he has preached in the reguards of Obama, 9/11, talking about the KK of America has any reference to scripture.

Can you lose your salvation, of course not, Jesus won't divorce you, but you can divorce Jesus.

[Hedgehog]

You're not telling me anything I don't already know, of course I "get it",  no sin is not greater than another, I guess my question is does Wright get it? If he is, he does not act like one let alone the leader of a church which leads me to the question is he really saved? He is using the pulpit not to teach the word of God but rather for political reasons. None what he has preached in the reguards of Obama, 9/11, talking about the KK of America has any reference to scripture.

Can you lose your salvation, of course not, Jesus won't divorce you, but you can divorce Jesus.

How can you know whether he accepts Jesus as his savior?

[Butterbean]

How can you know whether he accepts Jesus as his savior?

That is the real question.  We humans can't truly know for certain who else has accepted Christ as Savior or not.  That is within someone. 

I do think that there is the possibility that some people who profess to be Christians may not be.

There are truly saved Christians that don't live in the way God desires.  In fact, none of us can perfectly emulate the way Christ lived on earth.

Scripture does say however concerning false prophets in Matthew 7:15-20:

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Obama, acted in a different way against what scripture has taught, he either authored or back a bill passing partial birth abortion, making it legal to young teen to get an abortion and not inform the parents, he voted no to require schools to install software to block pornography......to me, this voting record reflects the opposite of what scripture teaches us.

I do find anyone supporting partial birth abortion to be a frickin' weirdo.


* Registered nurse Brenda Pratt Shafer witnessed several partial-birth abortions while
working for an Ohio abortionist. She described one of these abortions in a July 9, 1995,
letter to Congressman Tony Hall:

The baby's body was moving. His little fingers were clasping together. He was kicking
his feet. All the while his little head was still stuck inside. Dr. Haskell took a pair of
scissors and inserted them into the back of the baby's head. Then he opened the scissors
up. Then he stuck the high-powered suction tube into the hole and sucked the baby's
brains out.


www.ewtn.com

[loco]

Yes Stella, it does say that, BUT, this is the problem, If you realize your sins and repent, then yes, but if you continually go against Gods word with no remorse and preach hate and not live how He wanted us to live (for Him). Wright Is a Pastor, he is supposed to preach the word God, not black, white or anything else exept the word of God. As you know, Jesus' teachings are about love, not preaching sepratism.

Obama, acted in a different way against what scripture has taught, he either authored or back a bill passing partial birth abortion, making it legal to young teen to get an abortion and not inform the parents, he voted no to require schools to install software to block pornography......to me, this voting record reflects the opposite of what scripture teaches us.

If you accept Jesus Christ as the savior of your sins, then you're a Christian.

Regardless how you live your life.

You can be a pedophile, a murderer, a gangbanger, whatever.

But you will still remain a Christian and go to heaven.

Why?

Because Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice, and died on the cross for us.

He gave his life, don't you think it should be good enough to make up for sins of pedophiles, of murderers, et al?

There is a difference between committing a sin and living in sin.  Christians do not want to sin, but we do sin sometimes because we all make mistakes.  We are all human and we are not perfect.  However, it is very rare for a true Christian to live in sin, though it is possible.

A true Christian who falls into a life of habitual sin will not lose his/her salvation.  However, if this Christian does not repent and turn away from this life of sin, this Christian will surely suffer in the flesh, though his/her spirit will be saved...

"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. . .To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit MAY BE SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus." 1 Corinthians 5:1,5

"because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son." Hebrews 12:6

...and in the life to come this Christian will lose rewards in Heaven because of his/her life of sin.

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:11-15

Now, the above is true provided this person is a true Christian.  There are also people who call themselves Christians, living and enjoying a life of sin, only to realize later that they were mistaken and that they were not Christians to begin with.

"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' Matthew 7:22-23

"For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord." Jude 1:4

[calmus]

I agree with Stella.  I'd add that a pastor's job when preaching is to help bring people closer to Christ.  I don't think the sermons that are causing the raucous were designed to minister to people, so from that standpoint I don't think those portions of his sermons were consistent with his role as a pastor. 

raucous 














dumbass

[OzmO]

There is a difference between committing a sin and living in sin.  Christians do not want to sin, but we do sin sometimes because we all make mistakes.  We are all human and we are not perfect.  However, it is very rare for a true Christian to live in sin, though it is possible.

A true Christian who falls into a life of habitual sin will not lose his/her salvation.  However, if this Christian does not repent and turn away from this life of sin, this Christian will surely suffer in the flesh, though his/her spirit will be saved...

"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. . .To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit MAY BE SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus." 1 Corinthians 5:1,5

"because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son." Hebrews 12:6

...and in the life to come this Christian will lose rewards in Heaven because of his/her life of sin.

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:11-15

Now, the above is true provided this person is a true Christian.  There are also people who call themselves Christians, living and enjoying a life of sin, only to realize later that they were mistaken and that they were not Christians to begin with.

"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' Matthew 7:22-23

"For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord." Jude 1:4

That's a good post loco.   You are the standard bearer of what it is to really be a Christian.  You remove interpretation and  personal bias and back it up with scripture.

[240 is Back]

If he is, he does not act like one let alone the leader of a church which leads me to the question is he really saved? He is using the pulpit not to teach the word of God but rather for political reasons.

A lot of priests endorse republicans aruond election time.

Are they wrong for doing this, Joe?

[OzmO]

That is the real question.  We humans can't truly know for certain who else has accepted Christ as Savior or not. 

Shouldn't their actions reflect what's in their heart?

[loco]

That's a good post loco.   You are the standard bearer of what it is to really be a Christian.  You remove interpretation and  personal bias and back it up with scripture.

Thanks OzmO!  You are very kind!   

[calmus]

I'm just here to note another instance of BB trying to sound smarter than he is and failing. 

Carry on folks.

[Dos Equis]

I'm just here to note another instance of BB trying to sound smarter than he is and failing. 

Carry on folks.

[Dos Equis]

There is a difference between committing a sin and living in sin.  Christians do not want to sin, but we do sin sometimes because we all make mistakes.  We are all human and we are not perfect.  However, it is very rare for a true Christian to live in sin, though it is possible.

A true Christian who falls into a life of habitual sin will not lose his/her salvation.  However, if this Christian does not repent and turn away from this life of sin, this Christian will surely suffer in the flesh, though his/her spirit will be saved...

"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. . .To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit MAY BE SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus." 1 Corinthians 5:1,5

"because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son." Hebrews 12:6

...and in the life to come this Christian will lose rewards in Heaven because of his/her life of sin.

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:11-15

Now, the above is true provided this person is a true Christian.  There are also people who call themselves Christians, living and enjoying a life of sin, only to realize later that they were mistaken and that they were not Christians to begin with.

"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' Matthew 7:22-23

"For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord." Jude 1:4

Well said loco. 

[Hedgehog]

I do find anyone supporting partial birth abortion to be a frickin' weirdo.

That is your point of view.

But how can you be so sure that anyone supporting or partaking in partial birth abortion is a sinner? 

Just because you feel abort isn't something you feel ok with? Are you then gonna make the Faith suit your own beliefs instead of following the Faith?

The word abort isn't mentioned in the Bible, any reference to anti-abortion is purely based on interpretations of the Bible, not direct words from it.

[Hugo Chavez]

yea Stella, There is more to the partial birth story than there appears to be, it's not all weirdo, it gets sadly sicko as Moore would say.  PM me if you want to know.

[loco]

Well said loco. 

Thanks Beach Bum!

[Butterbean]

That is your point of view.

Yes, it is.

But how can you be so sure that anyone supporting or partaking in partial birth abortion is a sinner? 

I said I think they are frickin' weirdos.  I don't think I said that they are sinners.......but are they sinners?  Yes...why?  Because everyone is a sinner.

Romans 3:10
As it is written:
   "There is no one righteous, not even one;

1John 1:8
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:10
If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

Just because you feel abort isn't something you feel ok with? Are you then gonna make the Faith suit your own beliefs instead of following the Faith?

The word abort isn't mentioned in the Bible, any reference to anti-abortion is purely based on interpretations of the Bible, not direct words from it.

    Zack, I think you are drawing conclusions that are not there. 

What does, "find[ing] [people] that support partial birth abortions to be weirdos have to do with "the Faith?"


The word abort doesn't have to be mentioned in the bible for me to think that delivering a baby's body but leaving the head inside the vagina, stabbing it in the back of the head and sucking out it's brains is a weird thing to do.

The word pedophilia doesn't have to be mentioned in the bible for me to think it's weird and sick for people to have sex with children.

[Hedgehog]

Yes, it is.
I said I think they are frickin' weirdos.  I don't think I said that they are sinners.......but are they sinners?  Yes...why?  Because everyone is a sinner.

Romans 3:10
As it is written:
   "There is no one righteous, not even one;

1John 1:8
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:10
If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

    Zack, I think you are drawing conclusions that are not there. 

What does, "find[ing] [people] that support partial birth abortions to be weirdos have to do with "the Faith?"


The word abort doesn't have to be mentioned in the bible for me to think that delivering a baby's body but leaving the head inside the vagina, stabbing it in the back of the head and sucking out it's brains is a weird thing to do.

The word pedophilia doesn't have to be mentioned in the bible for me to think it's weird and sick for people to have sex with children.

Oh.

My bad.

I thought you were saying that pedophiles and late abortion activists that believed in Jesus Christ weren't going to heaven.

I apologize.

[Butterbean]

Oh.

My bad.

I thought you were saying that pedophiles and late abortion activists that believed in Jesus Christ weren't going to heaven.

I apologize.

No problem!