Obama: Not a Crackpot Church

[Dos Equis]

So now he says he didn't hear the "most offensive" comments by his pastor.  

Obama: Not a Crackpot Church

Monday, March 24, 2008 8:59 PM

Presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama defended his association with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, telling a Philadelphia radio audience Monday that "this is not a crackpot church."

Obama was interviewed by popular Philadelphia WPHT radio host Michael Smerconish last Friday. The taped interview aired on Smerconish's morning show.

Speaking via telephone, Obama said his Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago was a mainstream religious group and reiterated claims that Wright's controversial comments were taken out of context.

"This is a pillar of the community, and if you go there on Easter, this Easter Sunday, and you sat down there in the pew, you would think this is just like any other church."

Wright has stepped down as an active pastor of the church, but Obama said he never heard any controversial comments when he was present at services.

"The ones that are most offensive are ones that I never knew about until they were reported on. . . . I don't want to suggest that somehow, the loops you have been seeing typified services all the time. But that is the danger of the YouTube era. It doesn't excuse what he said. But it does give it some perspective," he said.

Obama said Wright is a respected minister.

"Bill Clinton invited him to the White House when he was having his personal crises," he said.

Obama also commented on the Bush administration's war on terror. Obama claimed the Bush administration had helped strengthen al-Qaida by focusing resources away from terror bases in Pakistan in favor of the Iraq occupation.

He said: "That's part of the reason I've been a critic from the start of the war in Iraq. It's not that I was opposed to war, it's that I felt that we had a war that we had not finished. Al-Qaida is stronger now than at any point since 2001, and we've got to do something about it because those guys have a safe haven there and they are still planning to do Americans harm, and my job as commander in chief is to going to be to protect Americans."

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/obama_wright_crackpot/2008/03/24/82751.html

[shootfighter1]

I don't buy his justification and don't buy him not knowing comments like this were being said at the church.  Thats just not believable...he has no choice but to deny it because it would not be popular to admit it during a presidential election.  This guy was a close personal friend, spiritual advisor and political backer...you think they never talked race & politics?  No way, use common sense.  A guy like Wright likely can't help himself with his rants & yelling spilling over into politics criticizing the government and bringing out the angry activist within him.  The question is how much should this affect your opinion of Obama and do you think this reflects some of his belief system...which would be a much more serious issue.

However, I do agree with Obama on Iraq.  We should have never invaded Iraq, its been a disaster and has taken the focus off Bin Laden and al-Qaida

[240 is Back]

So now he says he didn't hear the "most offensive" comments by his pastor.  

"Now"?

Do you have the original quote from Obama, where he does admit hearing the most offensive comments?

[shootfighter1]

It doesn't really matter.  After 20 yrs of being friends with Wright and attending services, he would be aware of at very least a protion of it...perhaps a lot more during personal discussions.  Thats not the issue anymore.  The issue is do you think that has effected Obama's belief system and the way he interprets the nation and our issues of race.

[w8tlftr]

Poor judgment on his part and he claims sound judgment is important to be President.

When I first started listening to this guy he struck me as someone who was fresh and authentic - even if I disagreed with his politics.

Now he's proven he's no better than the rest of the crapbags in Washington.

[shootfighter1]

He still could have a positive effect on racial relations in America.  Particularly if he can move some in the black community who are still heavily influenced by Jackson, Sharpton and people preaching like Rev Wright.  For this to happen, he has to distance himself from people like this and show everyone that there is a much better way to move forward while acknowledging the wrongs of the past.

[24KT]

Poor judgment on his part and he claims sound judgment is important to be President.

When I first started listening to this guy he struck me as someone who was fresh and authentic - even if I disagreed with his politics.

Now he's proven he's no better than the rest of the crapbags in Washington.

Hi w8tlftr! Welcome back!

I have to disagree with you. I think he is fresh and authentic, and does have good judgement.
I don't think he should dismiss people "like Rev Wright" or any other angry bitter American whether it be the Rev Wrights or the Dennis Duke's or anything in between. These people ARE Americans, and while their voices may not be popular, they are there. Understand them, and why they have become the way they have, because they have grievances or at least perceived grievances, and if they are not addressed, will only grow louder.

To say that he has poor judgement for listening to him is innaccurate imo. I think it shows very sound judgement. Listening to someone doesn't mean you buy into their premise, it does however enable you to understand it.

[shootfighter1]

Good points.  listen and understand why but its important to separate from those patterns & ideas and show a better way, then lead by example.

[OzmO]

From a Political standpoint in a presidential race.......  it's a fumble for sure.

You can argue what ever side or angel:

He used poor judgment or he was trying to understand person or didn't hear it or listen to it etc....


The bottom line is, this very likely could be the thing that cost him his opportunity to be president of the USA becuase the people he needs votes from to make it are the same people who will associate him with the likes of Shrapton or Jesse Jackson  all becuase of this crackpot preacher he should have distanced himself from 4 years ago or as soon as he heard him make comment like that.

[w8tlftr]

Hi w8tlftr! Welcome back!

I have to disagree with you. I think he is fresh and authentic, and does have good judgement.
I don't think he should dismiss people "like Rev Wright" or any other angry bitter American whether it be the Rev Wrights or the Dennis Duke's or anything in between. These people ARE Americans, and while their voices may not be popular, they are there. Understand them, and why they have become the way they have, because they have grievances or at least perceived grievances, and if they are not addressed, will only grow louder.

To say that he has poor judgement for listening to him is innaccurate imo. I think it shows very sound judgement. Listening to someone doesn't mean you buy into their premise, it does however enable you to understand it.

Hi, Judi 

I agree with almost everything you said.

I just think he could have handled it a lot better and should have been up front and honest about his association with Rev. Wright from the beginning.

His politics aside I really do want to like the man.

[Dos Equis]

I don't buy his justification and don't buy him not knowing comments like this were being said at the church.  Thats just not believable...he has no choice but to deny it because it would not be popular to admit it during a presidential election.  This guy was a close personal friend, spiritual advisor and political backer...you think they never talked race & politics?  No way, use common sense.  A guy like Wright likely can't help himself with his rants & yelling spilling over into politics criticizing the government and bringing out the angry activist within him.  The question is how much should this affect your opinion of Obama and do you think this reflects some of his belief system...which would be a much more serious issue.

However, I do agree with Obama on Iraq.  We should have never invaded Iraq, its been a disaster and has taken the focus off Bin Laden and al-Qaida

True.  There is no way Wright didn't make these kinds of comments over the course of their twenty year relationship. 

It really does come down to judgment. 

[24KT]

I see it differently, ...especially since I understand how perverse comments taken out of context can appear.
However, I believe that as a community organizer, it was incumbent upon him to be in the very community he was organizing. If you are going to take a people from point A to point B, you have to know where point A is. You cannot dismiss someone simply because their statements are distasteful to you, or sound egregious to you. There are those on here whose statements, taken out of context (and without the understanding of their reference point) have painted them as very racist. I won't name names because that will simply open their previous comments up for scrutiny & speculative debate, and that's not the point of this post. My point is, by listening to them, not always commenting, but simply listening to many of their statements, I began to piece together a picture of why they think the way they think, and come to understand their grievances are real. Their opinions may be wrong, but that in no way makes their resentments any less real. And while they sound racist, and their comments are racist, and extremely offensive due to their inability to articulate their positions more palatabley, their mounting frustrations coupled with their limited perspective, didn't allow them to see a bigger picture, one that would have shifted that issue that had become a point of bitter resentment & frustration to a more empowering place of a conundrum to be resolved. Only by listening to all voices are you able to see the bigger picture, which is by far a much more empowering place to be.

[w8tlftr]

I see it differently, ...especially since I understand how perverse comments taken out of context can appear.
However, I believe that as a community organizer, it was incumbent upon him to be in the very community he was organizing. If you are going to take a people from point A to point B, you have to know where point A is. You cannot dismiss someone simply because their statements are distasteful to you, or sound egregious to you. There are those on here whose statements, taken out of context (and without the understanding of their reference point) have painted them as very racist. I won't name names because that will simply open their previous comments up for scrutiny & speculative debate, and that's not the point of this post. My point is, by listening to them, not always commenting, but simply listening to many of their statements, I began to piece together a picture of why they think the way they think, and come to understand their grievances are real. Their opinions may be wrong, but that in no way makes their resentments any less real. And while they sound racist, and their comments are racist, and extremely offensive due to their inability to articulate their positions more palatabley, their mounting frustrations coupled with their limited perspective, didn't allow them to see a bigger picture, one that would have shifted that issue that had become a point of bitter resentment & frustration to a more empowering place of a conundrum to be resolved. Only by listening to all voices are you able to see the bigger picture, which is by far a much more empowering place to be.

Well said and I don't disagree with any of it... but... we aren't running for President of the United States he is.

Everything about that man is going to be put under a microscope. It's in his best interest to be totally up front and honest especially when people know very little about him. If he truly does want to unite America he's going about it the wrong way. Just my opinion.

[240 is Back]

i can't wait to bump these threads in november.

Reverend Who?

[shootfighter1]

No doubt your right on your insight, jag pertaining to certain situations...but there were comments that came from Wright that were inaccurate and extremely inflammatory against the government and not up to interpretation.  Among others, Wright preaching the US government created and released the AIDS virus on black Americans. 
Another quote:  "The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America".  Totally innappropriate IMO.
These teachings cannot be justified and need to be met with extreme criticism, particularly for a leader/teacher in his position with his influence on the learnings of others.  We cannot excuse teachings like this because of past wrongs.  Its much different than typing a personal opinion on a board open for criticism.
Its obvious Wright crosses religious boundries and gets into anti-American politics during his sermons and niave to think it only happened a few times.  Why did he mix Christian sermons with critical remarks about the US involvement with the Israeli/Palestine conflict?  Inappropriate venue IMO.
As Clinton said, we can choose the church we belong to.  People change churches all the time based on the pastor.

I was encouraged to hear a recent poll showed a majority of both black and non-black Americans disagreed with most of Wright's publicized statements.

[headhuntersix]

It might not matter...but Obama has to get the nomination and if the Super Delegates get it in their heads that he is un electable, regardless of truth, he won't get the nod in August.

[Decker]

This issue is tedious.

Sound Judgment, character, integrity...

Wonderful characteristics...all of them.

In the context of presidential politics, they are blather.

Look at the platforms, the issues.

Those other criteria are fodder for the pre-teen gossiping pundits of our liberal media.

[tonymctones]

He still could have a positive effect on racial relations in America.  Particularly if he can move some in the black community who are still heavily influenced by Jackson, Sharpton and people preaching like Rev Wright.  For this to happen, he has to distance himself from people like this and show everyone that there is a much better way to move forward while acknowledging the wrongs of the past.

This is an oxymoron b/c as long as people continue to dwell on the past and i mean the distant not recent past then we cannot move forward. Those who continue to dwell and harp on slavery get the african american race in general no where. I agree it was horrible, the attrocities were inhuman, but guess what nobody alive had anything to do with that. Its somewhat of a catch 22 b/c it really needs to be forgotten and put behind us, but you dont want to forget that it ever happend.

[Dos Equis]

This issue is tedious.

Sound Judgment, character, integrity...

Wonderful characteristics...all of them.

In the context of presidential politics, they are blather.

Look at the platforms, the issues.

Those other criteria are fodder for the pre-teen gossiping pundits of our liberal media.

?  You don't think "Sound Judgment, character, integrity" are important qualities for the president? 

[24KT]

No doubt your right on your insight, jag pertaining to certain situations...but there were comments that came from Wright that were inaccurate and extremely inflammatory against the government and not up to interpretation.  Among others, Wright preaching the US government created and released the AIDS virus on black Americans. 
Another quote:  "The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America".  Totally innappropriate IMO.
These teachings cannot be justified and need to be met with extreme criticism, particularly for a leader/teacher in his position with his influence on the learnings of others.  We cannot excuse teachings like this because of past wrongs.  Its much different than typing a personal opinion on a board open for criticism.
Its obvious Wright crosses religious boundries and gets into anti-American politics during his sermons and niave to think it only happened a few times.  Why did he mix Christian sermons with critical remarks about the US involvement with the Israeli/Palestine conflict?  Inappropriate venue IMO.
As Clinton said, we can choose the church we belong to.  People change churches all the time based on the pastor.

I was encouraged to hear a recent poll showed a majority of both black and non-black Americans disagreed with most of Wright's publicized statements.

Actually, if my memory serves me correctly, he didn't the gov unleashed the aids virus to kill American Blacks, ...but rather Africans. I think it was Steven Seagal who said it was to kill American Blacks, ...but I could be wrong.

I also assume the lesson he was preaching on was hypocrisy, ...or at least had something to do with clarity. A people really have to see themselves clearly, ...especially if they are heading down the wrong path I suppose. I don't know. I wasn't in the pew, ...and neither were any of us. What we have heard, are comments taken out of context. When placed in context, comments and their intent can sometimes take on a whole different meaning. As for his using the pulpit to comment on Israel/Palestine, ...I suppose it's no different from any of the other "mainstream Christian" churches that do the same.

[24KT]

This is an oxymoron b/c as long as people continue to dwell on the past and i mean the distant not recent past then we cannot move forward. Those who continue to dwell and harp on slavery get the african american race in general no where. I agree it was horrible, the attrocities were inhuman, but guess what nobody alive had anything to do with that. Its somewhat of a catch 22 b/c it really needs to be forgotten and put behind us, but you dont want to forget that it ever happend.

Acknowledging something is quite different from harping on something. In the short clips I saw, there was no mention whatsoever of slavery (that I can remember anyway). What was mentioned were some of the by-products of it. Something that leaves a profound legacy with lasting effects that cannot simply be forgotten. That's like saying doctors discover cancer in your penis. It's been there and has been allowed to manifest sooo long (because being American, you didn't have proper health coverage that would have enabled you to catch it earlier) {wink} ...been there so long, that there are only 2 options; amputate it, ...or wait another week and let it fall off all by itself.  Anyway, one of those options has been exercised, and 20 yrs later, you're cancer free. Wonderful. Do you think you wouldn't still be feeling the effects or the legacy the cancer left behind? Telling you to just forget you ever had cancer because there's no longer a cancer cell in your body is pretty ridiculous, ...especially when you're not in a position to bang your wife like a barn door in a rain storm (I know you like it rough)    Tell me you wouldn't feel somewhat bitter, or resentful, ...and perhaps more than a little pissed off if people told you to shut up and forget about it, when you try to educate young kids about the symptoms of penile cancer, so that they perhaps could get to a doctor in time if need be?

[youandme]

In the context of presidential politics, they are blather.

Look at the platforms, the issues.

Your right.

If Obama can't hear the words coming out of his preachers mouth for 22 years, how in the hell is he going to hear or even attempt to listen to the words coming out of the people's mouths.

Haha. I'm guessing as a result of his faulty hearing his platform, and issues will flip flop since he will only catch what he wants to hear.

[tonymctones]

Acknowledging something is quite different from harping on something. In the short clips I saw, there was no mention whatsoever of slavery (that I can remember anyway). What was mentioned were some of the by-products of it. Something that leaves a profound legacy with lasting effects that cannot simply be forgotten. That's like saying doctors discover cancer in your penis. It's been there and has been allowed to manifest sooo long (because being American, you didn't have proper health coverage that would have enabled you to catch it earlier) {wink} ...been there so long, that there are only 2 options; amputate it, ...or wait another week and let it fall off all by itself.  Anyway, one of those options has been exercised, and 20 yrs later, you're cancer free. Wonderful. Do you think you wouldn't still be feeling the effects or the legacy the cancer left behind? Telling you to just forget you ever had cancer because there's no longer a cancer cell in your body is pretty ridiculous, ...especially when you're not in a position to bang your wife like a barn door in a rain storm (I know you like it rough)    Tell me you wouldn't feel somewhat bitter, or resentful, ...and perhaps more than a little pissed off if people told you to shut up and forget about it, when you try to educate young kids about the symptoms of penile cancer, so that they perhaps could get to a doctor in time if need be?

LOL  you made me blush...I dont think this is the best analogy but i think you were going for something here. But there are unfortunately many people who still harp on this, not on a daily basis but slavery is what it generally always boils down to. I mean for Gods sake there were people not to long ago who were ordered by courts to pay reperations for slavery, Come the fvck on. The people alive today had no bearing on that situation what so ever. Like I said its not that we need to forget about it and education is what needs to be done. It is the blaming of society for individual short comings that needs to stop. The problem is that society cant say anything or the people who do will be labeled as rascist. I guess what my point was that the excuses need to stop and that individual accountablity as well as the accountability of the african american community should be called into action. You dont get good grades at school, study more - you keep getting arrested, stop breaking the law. I cant tell you how many times ive heard african american activist say that the system is set up for AA youths to fail. This is horse crap, Guess what an african american high schooler with a 3.5 gpa has a much greater chance of getting into a specific college than an caucasian american high schooler with the same gpa. The system is the same for everyone, quit complaining about your misfortunes and do something to change it...sorry i know i got on a soap box here

[shootfighter1]

Its not an easy subject and the vast majority people, regardless of race, feel regret and horror when speaking of slavery, there is zero justification....but we must keep in mind that slavery was practiced in nearly every nation at one time and occured to many different people at some point in history.  As jag said, in America, there was post slavery racism which contributed to our continued racial divides.  Many families didn't come to the US until post WW1 or WW2 so they are not to blame for America's slavery and it is unfair to do so.  Until the past couple decades, there has been institutional racism in America and that plain sucks, but white and black people both came together to fight the injustices so the majority of Americans made our stand.
The point is that you must overcome.  A portion of the black community is not doing this.  We need to be able to discuss this without feeling guilt or being labeled as as racist discussion.  More black leaders who do not preach like Rev Wright are also needed.  The paths to success and pride are colorless. 

England and Canada do not have issues like we do, partly because there isn't the same continued culture of resentment, entitlement and anger in some of the black community.  I admire those who have moved on.

Thats why I said acknowledge this history but choose not to dwell or continue a pattern of cultural self-repression. 

[Dos Equis]

Its not an easy subject and the vast majority people, regardless of race, feel regret and horror when speaking of slavery, there is zero justification....but we must keep in mind that slavery was practiced in nearly every nation at one time and occured to many different people at some point in history.  As jag said, in America, there was post slavery racism which contributed to our continued racial divides.  Many families didn't come to the US until post WW1 or WW2 so they are not to blame for America's slavery and it is unfair to do so.  Until the past couple decades, there has been institutional racism in America and that plain sucks, but white and black people both came together to fight the injustices so the majority of Americans made our stand.
The point is that you must overcome.  A portion of the black community is not doing this.  We need to be able to discuss this without feeling guilt or being labeled as as racist discussion.  More black leaders who do not preach like Rev Wright are also needed.  The paths to success and pride are colorless. 

England and Canada do not have issues like we do, partly because there isn't the same continued culture of resentment, entitlement and anger in some of the black community.  I admire those who have moved on.

Thats why I said acknowledge this history but choose not to dwell or continue a pattern of cultural self-repression. 

You also have to factor in Jim Crow, which didn't end until the 1960s (at least on paper).  We had an entire race that was pretty much illiterate until the 1860s and then laws and practices that oppressed them from the 1860s until the 1960s.  We are one generation removed from Jim Crow.