Author Topic: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?  (Read 40491 times)

New Hank Wood

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Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« on: March 28, 2008, 04:58:50 AM »
Arnold seemed such a fun lovin guy back in the day.  Surely all the reports that Arnold absolutely despised Mike can't be true?

Fair enough, Mike had a major inferiority complex.  Yes, he was always so jealous of Arnold and all the attention he so effortlessly commanded.

Apparently these two almost came to blows in the change rooms at the Opera House.

Anyway, when Mike died Arnold sent a wreath to the funeral....Yes, Arnold got the final owning!

Pollux

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2008, 05:56:59 AM »
when Mike died Arnold sent a wreath to the funeral

That's news to me.

Anyway, I don't think Arnold "despised" Mike, as you put it, but rather their conflict was mainly between their approach to training methods. Heavy Duty vs. High Volume...blah blah blah

Purge_WTF

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2008, 06:03:48 AM »
That's news to me.

Anyway, I don't think Arnold "despised" Mike, as you put it, but rather their conflict was mainly between their approach to training methods. Heavy Duty vs. High Volume...blah blah blah

  And Arnold's last Olympia appearance as well; Mentzer had a right to be pissed then.

Pollux

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2008, 06:08:11 AM »
 And Arnold's last Olympia appearance as well; Mentzer had a right to be pissed then.

Yeah, I can see what you mean - bending the rule a bit so Arnold could compete. But it's almost like Mike feared Arnold competing as much of a stink Mike made about it.

BEAST 8692

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2008, 12:05:36 PM »
mentzer had the meltdown of meltdowns when arnold not only got to compete, he changed the rules and then he won the competition with glaring weaknesses ie lower body.

JasonH

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2008, 12:19:50 PM »
Arnold didn't despise Mentzer - I think he merely saw him as another challenge to be overcome - and did it with ease. Mentzer was treated the same as Ferrigno, and was bitter about it until the day he died. Louie will be the same - they can never escape Arnold's shadow.

FLYLO

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2008, 01:25:25 PM »
Arnold seemed such a fun lovin guy back in the day.  Surely all the reports that Arnold absolutely despised Mike can't be true?

Anyway, when Mike died Arnold sent a wreath to the funeral....Yes, Arnold got the final owning!

It's called respect Hank.  The best example of "owning" by Arnold was Nasser's omission at the ASC 2008.  HAHAHAHA!

New Hank Wood

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2008, 02:37:25 PM »
There was incredible tension between Arnold and Mike at the 1980 Olympia, apparently almost boiling over into a physical scuffle.

One thing is for certain, Mike lived with bitterness towards Arnold to the end! 

Mike developed substance-abuse and alcohol issues, becoming more delusional and irrational as the years passed.  These neurotic conditions may have also contributed to an early grave.

The chain-smoking and religious-fruit-cake-Mentzer is, i believe, your classic Narcissist; he could never deal with the fact that he was just another mortal, a very flawed and confused one at that!

And yes, Arnold did send flowers when it became apparent that Mike had died under what is now known as 'tragic circumstances'.

FLYLO

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2008, 02:41:22 PM »
There was incredible tension between Arnold and Mike at the 1980 Olympia, apparently almost boiling over into a physical scuffle.

One thing is for certain, Mike lived with bitterness towards Arnold to the end! 

Mike developed substance-abuse and alcohol issues, becoming more delusional and irrational as the years passed.  These neurotic conditions may have also contributed to an early grave.

The chain-smoking and religious-fruit-cake-Mentzer is, i believe, your classic Narcissist; he could never deal with the fact that he was just another mortal, a very flawed and confused one at that!

And yes, Arnold did send flowers when it became apparent that Mike had died under what is now known as 'tragic circumstances'.

So Hank, what your personal view on Joe Weider and Dorian Yates?  and Dorian winning the 1997 Mr. Olympia?  ::)

New Hank Wood

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2008, 03:16:47 PM »
Mike is a plagiarist! 

He stole the principles of High Intensity Training (H.I.T) and claimed them as his own work!  Pretty much sums the guy up:a fraud, a liar and a badsport!

He can at least claim that he was the Golden Era's truest and most original 'nut job'.  Even Ayn Rand wanted nothing to do with him in the end!

Mentzer:  I cannot think of one good thing he did for this so-called-sport!

kawaks

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2008, 03:29:04 PM »
Mike is a plagiarist! 

He stole the principles of High Intensity Training (H.I.T) and claimed them as his own work!  Pretty much sums the guy up:a fraud, a liar and a badsport!

He can at least claim that he was the Golden Era's truest and most original 'nut job'.  Even Ayn Rand wanted nothing to do with him in the end!

Mentzer:  I cannot think of one good thing he did for this so-called-sport!

And to make things worse, Yates got into bed with Mentzer ...no wonder Arnie didn't want anything to do with the Yates era.

Pollux

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2008, 03:59:08 PM »
There was incredible tension between Arnold and Mike at the 1980 Olympia, apparently almost boiling over into a physical scuffle.

Mike: Arnold, you better stay seated before I knock your teeth out!
Arnold: Mike, you couldn't knock anyone's teeth out with that bulging stomach, and brutal glasses.



Samir: Arnold, you're an OWNING machine. Gimme five!
Arnold: Poor Mike. He was too easy.


Moosejay

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2008, 04:01:10 PM »
Note how Arnold avoids making eye-contact with Mentzer.....

The ChemistV2

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2008, 04:14:58 PM »
Actually having known both Mike and Arnold, the truth is that when Mentzer first came out on the scene, Arnold liked him very much. In fact he is quoted in a magazine back in 1977 as saying that "Mentzer impresses me not only with his fantastic physique, but the fact that he is very intelligent, articulate and well mannered." Mentzer made the mistake of writing articles, shortly afterwards, that claimed Arnold's training system was totally wrong and the only reason Arnold got so good was because he had great genetics." He tried to say Arnold and everyone who trained like him was wrong and that Heavy Duty was the only logical way to train. One thing about Arnold is that he won't tolerate someone saying that he is wrong or misguided. If you turn on him, he will make you his enemy and go out of his way to get some sort of revenge. Mentzer did have a strong sense of honor and justice and the sport of bodybuilding during the late 70's early 80's was an extremely important part of his life. When he finished 5th in 1980 and Arnold won, his real sense of purpose was shattered. Everything he was living for, in his eyes, became a horrible joke. That, combined with amphetamine abuse, caused his decline. Arnold did call Mike when Ray was sick, and they had words. They sort of buried the hatchet. Nowadays, Arnold admits to having regrets about some of the tactics he pulled when he was younger. Mentzer probably should have gotten past the 80 Olympia, regrouped, and he may have gone on to win it.

tommywishbone

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2008, 04:17:39 PM »
According to Musclephone, "No."
a

Moosejay

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2008, 04:18:06 PM »
Hey Chem. Do you think Mike really meant what he said about Arnold's training style...or was it a ploy to sell his own system?

Moosejay

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2008, 04:20:02 PM »
Hey Chem...what ever happened to Mike's long time girl, Cathy Gelfo?

The ChemistV2

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2008, 04:23:45 PM »
Hey Chem...what ever happened to Mike's long time girl, Cathy Gelfo?
I don't know, but I met her when I stayed at Mentzer's place in 78 when I was about 15. I remember she absolutely idolized him back then. Every time he would speak, she would look at him like he was god. She seemed like a real nice girl, but if anyone said anything bad about Mike, she would probably have killed them!

New Hank Wood

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2008, 04:27:41 PM »
Mike's decline!

What a sad and pathetic creature Mike turned out to be. 

How 'weak minded' to let some 'meaningless jibes' from Arnold impact on the rest of your life!




The ChemistV2

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2008, 04:27:57 PM »
Hey Chem. Do you think Mike really meant what he said about Arnold's training style...or was it a ploy to sell his own system?
No, he believed it. He really felt that Arnold and the "Volume trainers" only got good because of their genetics and steroids. His system was mostly a rehash of Arthur Jones, but he definitely believed it. But he used to do at least 3 sets an exercise back then, probably 9 sets for major muscle groups. It wasn't till the early 90's, he came up with the 1 set per exercise routine.

Moosejay

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2008, 04:28:37 PM »
I don't know, but I met her when I stayed at Mentzer's place in 78 when I was about 15. I remember she absolutely idolized him back then. Every time he would speak, she would look at him like he was god. She seemed like a real nice girl, but if anyone said anything bad about Mike, she would probably have killed them!

Chem:You probably will remember this: Cathy was sitting near Jack Neary, one of Weider's top writers in the 70's, during the prejudging of what I think was the 1976 Mr. Universe, won by Kal with Mentzer 2nd to him. Someone said within Cathy's earshot:"wow...look at Mentzer's calves...the best in the world."

To which Neary replied:"No. Waller has the best calves in the world."

Cathy said in an article that she hated Neary for a whole year after she heard him say that...until she met him about a year later.

Moosejay

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2008, 04:29:22 PM »
No, he believed it. He really felt that Arnold and the "Volume trainers" only got good because of their genetics and steroids. His system was mostly a rehash of Arthur Jones, but he definitely believed it. But he used to do at least 3 sets an exercise back then, probably 9 sets for major muscle groups. It wasn't till the early 90's, he came up with the 1 set per exercise routine.

Yeah...thought so...

Camel Jockey

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2008, 04:30:09 PM »
Mike's love of bodybuilding was only surpassed by his love for meth.

Moosejay

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2008, 04:31:20 PM »
Mike's love of bodybuilding was only surpassed by his love for meth.

Unfortunate.

The ChemistV2

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Re: Did Arnold really loathe Mentzer?
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2008, 04:34:52 PM »
Chem:You probably will remember this: Cathy was sitting near Jack Neary, one of Weider's top writers in the 70's, during the prejudging of what I think was the 1976 Mr. Universe, won by Kal with Mentzer 2nd to him. Someone said within Cathy's earshot:"wow...look at Mentzer's calves...the best in the world."

To which Neary replied:"No. Waller has the best calves in the world."

Cathy said in an article that she hated Neary for a whole year after she heard him say that...until she met him about a year later.
I remember that article. Mentzer was pretty bright and supposedly had some medical knowledge, so I wonder why he didn't realize that amphetamine abuse can scramble your neurotransmitters and cause dementia and madness. He never was concerned much with health. He used to drink vodka right up to the day of the show.