The Jim Manion, IFBB pro belly ban, overall physqiue judging edict?

[HowieW]

I know I have gone on ad naseum about extreme drug use and drug testing for the IFBB pros.
In all honesty , I think testing is NOT the best possible answer. why?
The testing protocols are too "all or none " in my opinion and cost a lot of $$ to implement properly.
I think that most of us here , prefer seeing a great physique that is enhanced. What we don't want to see is the infamous growth belly, abusrd synthol or freakish proportions/muscle shapes that look insane.
Guys like Dexter or Heath or Jay ( when in top shape) are NOT bad images on stage.
I would prefer to see the judges of the IFBB follow the Manion judging edict from a couple yrs ago to the letter. For example, Brach Warren may not have the most aesthetic shaped physique , but in my opinion, he did come in to the Arnold with a tight waist and pronounced V taper to compliment his mass and incredible legs. This to me, was a great modern pro physique, worthy of the MM award and a top place in the line up.
I also think most of the pros ( Branch included) would look a lot better with cleaner , sharper lines at
5-10% less body wt. I honestly felt Dexter looked better at a few lbs lighter when he won the 2003 GNC pro show. Yes, he looked great at the recent ASC, but for my taste , looked shaper a few lbs lighter.
Same with Jay who looked his all time best ( my opinion) in 2001.
Plus, the big time light and sound production help turn a good pro show into a real event.
Your thoughts?

[HowieW]

No opinions? i figured this was a pretty good thread?

[shiftedShapes]

No opinions? i figured this was a pretty good thread?

I agree mostly,...except I would be stricter, guys should be able to do a real vacuum like the clip of pearson posted in the MJ thread.  This is a clear criteria and would be easy to judge on.  If you have abdominal distension you can't pull off a full vacuum.

[dearth]

howard,

the "belly ban" rule is as much of joke as the rest of the ifbb rules..
selectively enforcement ad infinitum.

if they actaullly followed that rule, how did ronnie win the olympia,let alona any bodybuilding show
with a huge gut that hang over his trunks?

can't wait for ifbb's internet defence aka bob chick, to explain that one.

I know I have gone on ad naseum about extreme drug use and drug testing for the IFBB pros.
In all honesty , I think testing is NOT the best possible answer. why?
The testing protocols are too "all or none " in my opinion and cost a lot of $$ to implement properly.
I think that most of us here , prefer seeing a great physique that is enhanced. What we don't want to see is the infamous growth belly, abusrd synthol or freakish proportions/muscle shapes that look insane.
Guys like Dexter or Heath or Jay ( when in top shape) are NOT bad images on stage.
I would prefer to see the judges of the IFBB follow the Manion judging edict from a couple yrs ago to the letter. For example, Brach Warren may not have the most aesthetic shaped physique , but in my opinion, he did come in to the Arnold with a tight waist and pronounced V taper to compliment his mass and incredible legs. This to me, was a great modern pro physique, worthy of the MM award and a top place in the line up.
I also think most of the pros ( Branch included) would look a lot better with cleaner , sharper lines at
5-10% less body wt. I honestly felt Dexter looked better at a few lbs lighter when he won the 2003 GNC pro show. Yes, he looked great at the recent ASC, but for my taste , looked shaper a few lbs lighter.
Same with Jay who looked his all time best ( my opinion) in 2001.
Plus, the big time light and sound production help turn a good pro show into a real event.
Your thoughts?

[bigmikecox]

Bro you need to get out more...did you really put that much thought into that

[The ChemistV2]

It's very simple. The IFBB should return to the judging standards they had in the 70's and 80's. Back then, the best guy , with the least flaws won the Olympia. Somewhere along the line, it became the biggest guy wins, no matter how distorted and unaesthetic he may be. NO giant bellies, no obvious synthol use should be enforced without exception. If contests were judged in the 70's the way they are now, Ken Waller would have beaten Zane just because he was bigger. Samir Bannout would have been beaten by Bertil Fox. Mohammed Makkawy would have never won a show, etc. If the judging was correct, Coleman would have lost a few more Olympias, and so would have Yates.

[Van_Bilderass]

Marking down bellies, Synthol, and etc is a good idea. But doesn't curb extreme drug use IMO, which I think is what you're after. Look at Dexter's face. Dexter also has a long waist which I think helps in not getting a protruding gut. Still, even Dexter has some distension.

Someone has suggested a health test instead. Having blood parameters in range would force the athlete to at least appear healthy. What do you think about that Howie? I don't think this would be a good idea either really since genetics affect how someone's lipids, liver enzymes etc react to extreme drug use so you'd still have lots of heavy use.

[The Coach]

It's very simple. The IFBB should return to the judging standards they had in the 70's and 80's. Back then, the best guy , with the least flaws won the Olympia. Somewhere along the line, it became the biggest guy wins, no matter how distorted and unaesthetic he may be. NO giant bellies, no obvious synthol use should be enforced without exception. If contests were judged in the 70's the way they are now, Ken Waller would have beaten Zane just because he was bigger. Samir Bannout would have been beaten by Bertil Fox. Mohammed Makkawy would have never won a show, etc. If the judging was correct, Coleman would have lost a few more Olympias, and so would have Yates.

Great post! I think is something like 2005 or 06' when Ronnie recieved a perfect score in the symmetry round at the Olympia.....go figure!

[sgt. d]

belly ban lol

[mikediesel]

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=207946.0

[candidizzle]

please NO!! to what the chemist suggested... no way
 do i want to see another 15 inch arm frank zane holding up the sandow..    shit next thing you know mario lopez will be competing on an ifbb stag

[Bast000]

please NO!! to what the chemist suggested... no way
 do i want to see another 15 inch arm frank zane holding up the sandow..    shit next thing you know mario lopez will be competing on an ifbb stag

 

Zaned owned you on genetics.

[The Coach]

please NO!! to what the chemist suggested... no way
 do i want to see another 15 inch arm frank zane holding up the sandow..    shit next thing you know mario lopez will be competing on an ifbb stag

I would imagine this would be the typical response from someone who is growing up in this generation of "chemical" bodybuilding and not understanding what real bodybuilding was all about.

[kiwiol]

I would imagine this would be the typical response from someone who is growing up in this generation of "chemical" bodybuilding and not understanding what real bodybuilding was all about.

Real bodybuilding according to who? There are tons of people out there who want to see mass monsters as much as there are people out there like yourself who want to see someone aesthetic (read 'looking like a twink' ). And that earlier argument is flawed cause it makes it sound like the heaviest guy would win the contest and the lightest guy would place last - hardly what you see in the results. Bodybuilding's fine sans the synthol and guts. Trying to bring back the standards of the 70s or 80s where guys weren't any heavier than 220 - 230 at around 5'11" is just plain retarded.

[Brutal_1]

It's very simple. The IFBB should return to the judging standards they had in the 70's and 80's. Back then, the best guy , with the least flaws won the Olympia. Somewhere along the line, it became the biggest guy wins, no matter how distorted and unaesthetic he may be. NO giant bellies, no obvious synthol use should be enforced without exception. If contests were judged in the 70's the way they are now, Ken Waller would have beaten Zane just because he was bigger. Samir Bannout would have been beaten by Bertil Fox. Mohammed Makkawy would have never won a show, etc. If the judging was correct, Coleman would have lost a few more Olympias, and so would have Yates.

If they would've stuck with that standard...Shawn Ray would have at least 5 Sandows on his mantle 

[The Coach]

Real bodybuilding according to who? There are tons of people out there who want to see mass monsters as much as there are people out there like yourself who want to see someone aesthetic (read 'looking like a twink' ). And that earlier argument is flawed cause it makes it sound like the heaviest guy would win the contest and the lightest guy would place last - hardly what you see in the results. Bodybuilding's fine sans the synthol and guts. Trying to bring back the standards of the 70s or 80s where guys weren't any heavier than 220 - 230 at around 5'11" is just plain retarded.

I've made this arguement many times, if I posted a pic between lets say Bob Paris and one todays pros, by poll, Paris would win. How many times have you read on here "I would rather have the physique from someone in the 70's or 80's" as opposed to someone now?

[jetpower]

[jetpower]

I've made this arguement many times, if I posted a pic between lets say Bob Paris and one todays pros, by poll, Paris would win. How many times have you read on here "I would rather have the physique from someone in the 70's or 80's" as opposed to someone now?

Bob Paris is ghey.
Teh Coach likes Bob Paris.



The Coach = Teh Ghey.

[HowieW]

The IFBB might consider these for some of the more distended pros, they could snap 'em right on top of their posing trunks
On a somewhat serious note, what actually causes the huge but ripped gut thing

[The ChemistV2]

Real bodybuilding according to who? There are tons of people out there who want to see mass monsters as much as there are people out there like yourself who want to see someone aesthetic (read 'looking like a twink' ). And that earlier argument is flawed cause it makes it sound like the heaviest guy would win the contest and the lightest guy would place last - hardly what you see in the results. Bodybuilding's fine sans the synthol and guts. Trying to bring back the standards of the 70s or 80s where guys weren't any heavier than 220 - 230 at around 5'11" is just plain retarded.

I never said the physiques had to return to the 70's, just the criteria of judging. If the biggest guy is also the best guy, he should win. But he shouldn't win if his body has a thick bloated gut and his proportions are terrible. The way it is now, Dexter could show up at the Olympia, be the best guy and he's going to lose to a bigger guy even if the bigger guy is worse.

[Camel Jockey]

please NO!! to what the chemist suggested... no way
 do i want to see another 15 inch arm frank zane holding up the sandow..    shit next thing you know mario lopez will be competing on an ifbb stag

Well, I don't want to see a stupid drugged up fuck like you on stage. To each his own I guess.

One can still be a monster and look pleasing. Just look at Dennis Wolf and even Vic Martinez. They look pretty aesthetic.

[Meltdown]

IFBB RULES = NO FUKIN RULES. ::)Oh unless they feel like enforcing some of them or if Lee Priest is involved with something.Then Boooooooooooooom Priest your GONE.

[Smokincrazy]

please NO!! to what the chemist suggested... no way
 do i want to see another 15 inch arm frank zane holding up the sandow..    shit next thing you know mario lopez will be competing on an ifbb stag

Or a Candizzle with 15 inch arm in the tiny tit division

[candidizzle]

bodybuilding is not supposed to be judged on "which physique would the average person rather have", coach..   its about the most muscular+aesthetic+conditioned physique.   and you have to weigh all of the factors against each other. you cant say that zane beats coleman just because zane has no distension..thats ABSURD. the amount of mass and conditioning coleman had over zane clearly outweighs whatever advantage zane had in aesthetics..

the opposite could be true as well though...for example..art atwoods lack of aesthetics and gut distention cleary outweighs his advantages in size over a guy like dexter..whos aesthetics and conditioning more than make up for his lack of size when compared to atwood..

all things considered!!

^^^^^my opinion...   size=conditioning=aesthetics....    some people might say that size>conditioning.aesthetics or the opposit aesthetics>conditioning>size

[candidizzle]

Or a Candizzle with 15 inch arm in the tiny tit division

the last time my arms were under 17 inches i was a freshman in high school.. (although at the time i was fat..still, my point stands)