question about cinnamon extract and fat timing

[candidizzle]

does anybody know if you have to watch out for fats in the blood stream when taking cinnamon extract??

[Princess L]

Not sure what you're asking.  Cinnamon has shown positive effects on blood sugar and lipid profiles in people with Type 2 diabetes.

[Necrosis]

does anybody know if you have to watch out for fats in the blood stream when taking cinnamon extract??

yes, perferably with a darkfield microscope.

[candidizzle]

okay ill explain..   cinnamon extract is an insulin mimicker..  it improves insulin sensitivity and it promotes good sugar metabolism.    when ever you eat high glycemic foods that cause an insulin response, you have to make sure that you dont have any fats flowing through your system from prior meals..because the elevation in insulin will cause them to be stored as fat, even if they are healthy fats that you would normally have burned off as energy...

so my question is... does cinnamon extract cause fat storing like insulin does? (its called an "insulin mimicker")

[Eisenherz]

Fat in the presence of insulin does not cause fat storage, common meat head myth, the bio-chemical pathways simply don't work that way.
And yes cinnamon releases insulin.

[Necrosis]

okay ill explain..   cinnamon extract is an insulin mimicker..  it improves insulin sensitivity and it promotes good sugar metabolism.    when ever you eat high glycemic foods that cause an insulin response, you have to make sure that you dont have any fats flowing through your system from prior meals..because the elevation in insulin will cause them to be stored as fat, even if they are healthy fats that you would normally have burned off as energy...

so my question is... does cinnamon extract cause fat storing like insulin does? (its called an "insulin mimicker")

anything that is an insulinmimetic will cause anabolism. cinnamon reduces hyperglycemia and insulin resistence via increased sensitivity. Basically making you release less insulin and stimulate GLUT4 easier.

if your looking for a supp to partition your nutrients better, with carbs being the worry, you should look into banaba extract, much better then cinnamon.

fish oil is also very good at increasing sensitivity. The higher the sensitivity the less adipose tissue you could potential store in theory.

[candidizzle]

Fat in the presence of insulin does not cause fat storage, common meat head myth, the bio-chemical pathways simply don't work that way.
And yes cinnamon releases insulin.

i have read this in academic nutrition books that were not authored by bodybuilders or anyone in the fitness industry.  as well as in bb'ing books.

care to explain?  

everyything i know about insulin is that it basically says "store&process!!store&process!!" to the body....      

and also, why do guys get fat super quick when injecting insulin and they have fats in their blood stream?

[candidizzle]

anything that is an insulinmimetic will cause anabolism. cinnamon reduces hyperglycemia and insulin resistence via increased sensitivity. Basically making you release less insulin and stimulate GLUT4 easier.

if your looking for a supp to partition your nutrients better, with carbs being the worry, you should look into banaba extract, much better then cinnamon.

fish oil is also very good at increasing sensitivity. The higher the sensitivity the less adipose tissue you could potential store in theory.

yeah i take  a lot of fish oil, use alot of flax, and normally get in at least one tablespoon of udo's oil per day. 

i just picked up some cinnamon extract becuse it was on sale for like 7 dollars and i have read alot of things about it promoting insulin sensitivity....and my body is super sensitive to excess carbs..   so i figured it couldnt hurt..


so you say that it minimizes the amount of insulin you releaasse? does that mean that it would actually promote better fat metabolism as well>? (insulin is opposed by glucoagon and other fat burning hormones)..??

i had two tablespoons peanut butter and some flax with my last meal...   im wondering if taking the extract right now would cause fat storage...or if i should wait untill my post workout shake tomorrow to take it (i normally just take in carbs in waxy maize post wo shake and one big carb meal an hour post training)..

[Necrosis]

i have read this in academic nutrition books that were not authored by bodybuilders or anyone in the fitness industry.  as well as in bb'ing books.

care to explain?  

everyything i know about insulin is that it basically says "store&process!!store&process!!" to the body....      

and also, why do guys get fat super quick when injecting insulin and they have fats in their blood stream?

you are correct, cinnamon regulates insulin usage towards skeletal muscle usage, and reduces hyperglycemic states.

insulin is anbolic and will store and build. if you have excess fats, proteins etc that cannot be utilized they are stored. skeletal muscle can only take so much so adipocytes take the excess usually as there stores are potentially unlimited. Fat is also the easiest macro to store as fat due to the somewhat more direct path to adipocytes.

[Necrosis]

yeah i take  a lot of fish oil, use alot of flax, and normally get in at least one tablespoon of udo's oil per day. 

i just picked up some cinnamon extract becuse it was on sale for like 7 dollars and i have read alot of things about it promoting insulin sensitivity....and my body is super sensitive to excess carbs..   so i figured it couldnt hurt..


so you say that it minimizes the amount of insulin you releaasse? does that mean that it would actually promote better fat metabolism as well>? (insulin is opposed by glucoagon and other fat burning hormones)..??

i had two tablespoons peanut butter and some flax with my last meal...   im wondering if taking the extract right now would cause fat storage...or if i should wait untill my post workout shake tomorrow to take it (i normally just take in carbs in waxy maize post wo shake and one big carb meal an hour post training)..

anything that increases sensitivity should decrease glucose in the bloodstream, thus causing less insulin to be released. insulin and glucagon are two of the main endocrine hormones of the pancreas and have alterior functions, so if you have one high the other cannot be working. Glucagon breaks down glycogen(glycogenolysis) into glucose so your body can use it, while insulin stores glucose as glycogen(glycogensis). Its not quite this simple but.

avoding fat and carbs in the same meal is one way to avoid getting fat, fat and protein, or carbs and protein are better combos, take your cinnamon with the carbs. Modulating (meaning, lowering if high, increasing if low, normalizing) insulin is a big key as well. It doesnt minimize insulin directly but by lowering glucose in the blood you need less, thus less storage.

[Necrosis]

relevant study

 Diabetes Res Clin Pract. 2003 Dec;62(3):139-48. Links
Cinnamon extract (traditional herb) potentiates in vivo insulin-regulated glucose utilization via enhancing insulin signaling in rats.Qin B, Nagasaki M, Ren M, Bajotto G, Oshida Y, Sato Y.
Department of Sports Medicine, Graduate School of Medicine, Nagoya University, Furo-cho, Chikusa-ku, Nagoya 464-8601, Japan.

Cinnamon has been shown to potentiate the insulin effect through upregulation of the glucose uptake in cultured adipocytes. In the present study, we evaluated the effect of the cinnamon extract on the insulin action in awaked rats by the euglycemic clamp and further analyzed possible changes in insulin signaling occurred in skeletal muscle. The rats were divided into saline and cinnamon extract (30 and 300 mg/kg BW-doses: C30 and C300) oral administration groups. After 3-weeks, cinnamon extract treated rats showed a significantly higher glucose infusion rate (GIR) at 3 mU/kg per min insulin infusions compared with controls (118 and 146% of controls for C30 and C300, respectively). At 30 mU/kg per min insulin infusions, the GIR in C300 rats was increased 17% over controls. There were no significant differences in insulin receptor (IR)-beta, IR substrate (IRS)-1, and phosphatidylinositol (PI) 3-kinase protein content between C300 rats and controls. However, the skeletal muscle insulin-stimulated IR-beta and the IRS-1 tyrosine phosphorylation levels in C300 rats were 18 and 33% higher, respectively, added to 41% higher IRS-1/PI 3-kinase association. These results suggest that the cinnamon extract would improve insulin action via increasing glucose uptake in vivo, at least in part through enhancing the insulin-signaling pathway in skeletal muscle


It was done in vivo which is basically using test tubes not subjects like rats or humans so it carries less weight but increasing glut4 signalling would shuttle carbs to the muscle as opposed to adipocytes.

[Eisenherz]

you are correct, cinnamon regulates insulin usage towards skeletal muscle usage, and reduces hyperglycemic states.

insulin is anbolic and will store and build. if you have excess calories that cannot be utilized they are stored. skeletal muscle can only take so much so adipocytes take the excess usually as there stores are potentially unlimited. Fat is also the easiest macro to store as fat due to the somewhat more direct path to adipocytes.

Fixed
So if you keep your cals at maintanance and combine fat with carbs you will store it as fat?..

[Necrosis]

Fixed
So if you keep your cals at maintanance and combine fat with carbs you will store it as fat?..

yes sir, its meal dependent. if you take in enough carbs and fat in one meal the synergistic mechanisms will cause fat storage.

if your in a defeceit your making it harder on yourself. Its the worst startegy for losing weight.

[candidizzle]

yes i think we agree on this one, total cals dont mean much..    cause certain cals have certain effects on the body..   like protein(thermic effect of feeding) and omega3(and to a lesser extent omega 6) (upregulation of fat metabolism enhanced heat production)...   and for carbs the glycemic load too

[Eisenherz]

yes sir, its meal dependent. if you take in enough carbs and fat in one meal the synergistic mechanisms will cause fat storage.

if your in a defeceit your making it harder on yourself. Its the worst startegy for losing weight.

Therefore according to you if I combined my fat and carbs long enough on maintanance calorie intake I would gain weight due to the increases in fat gain?
Candidizzle yes calories are not everything but they are still king.

[candidizzle]

Therefore according to you if I combined my fat and carbs long enough on maintanance calorie intake I would gain weight due to the increases in fat gain?
Candidizzle yes calories are not everything but they are still king.

how do you take in to aacount omega-3 calories, and protein calories?

[El Diablo Blanco]

how do you take in to aacount omega-3 calories, and protein calories?

Did you buy cinnamon extract at a grocery store next to the vanilla extract?  Seriously.  What americans consider to be cinnamon is not really cinnamon but comes from the cassia(sp?) tree.  Real cinnamon bark is hard to get and that is where the real extract needs to be derived from , not the cassia tree that is used for flavoring.

[candidizzle]

Did you buy cinnamon extract at a grocery store next to the vanilla extract?  Seriously.  What americans consider to be cinnamon is not really cinnamon but comes from the cassia(sp?) tree.  Real cinnamon bark is hard to get and that is where the real extract needs to be derived from , not the cassia tree that is used for flavoring.

no ist legit cinnamon extract dude.. i know what your talking about and its not that

[Necrosis]

Therefore according to you if I combined my fat and carbs long enough on maintanance calorie intake I would gain weight due to the increases in fat gain?
Candidizzle yes calories are not everything but they are still king.

you probably wouldnt gain weight but your body composition would deteriorate.