An open letter to Bob Chic

[phreak]

Very funny.
I am a man of reason, no more , no less. You?

A man of reason wouldn't try the same thing over and over, expecting different results.

[KillerMonk]

Why cannot a BB prepare for a contest in a country where steroids are legal and hop over the border when there done preparing.
Hence break no laws,That is if you have the money,I was thinking of travelling to Pattaya Thailand as a BB Holiday.

[HowieW]

I appreciate your letter, Howie...no need for apologies for having beliefs that others may or may not share. You're a true fan of the sport in every sense of the word.

I don't believe BB will ever have to go through the witchhunting thats going on in pro Baseball due to the simple fact that we aren't even on the radar screen when it comes to money and interest...

It wasn't drug testing, etc that ended the AAU, it was the NPC that ended them....case and point: the NPC has not only endured, but grown in every aspect over the years having more shows and members than at any point in it's history.

Your own statement kind of answers itself:


"In is my strong belief that NO pro or top amatuer athlete should have to risk breaking the law just to compete fairly. "

No pro or top amateur HAS to risk breaking the law, nor do thay HAVE to compete unfairly. They can choose to compete in the drug tested shows, natural organizations...ensuring they are on equal par with others that share the same mindset.

At the end of the day, it the fans that dictate what level of competition they want to support....and they have spoken loudly....not just in BB, but every sport...they want bigger, stronger, faster, and freakier...thats why there were 10,000 people at the Olympia, and 10 people at the last natural show.

It's not like the athletes that compete are exactly chomping at the bit rallying for drug testing, either....it is what it is.

Thanks for the thoughtful and intellogent reply Bob. I am glad someone in bodybuilding I respect (you) realizes that I have a real passion for the sport and respect for the bodybuilders in the IFBB.
I am too much of a musclehead to NOT want to go to shows.
You are right , if the grown men/woman don't mind all the risks, it is their choice.
I will do my best to shut up now, sit back and enjoy the contests and the great physiques on the IFBB and NPC stages.
Howard

[dr.chimps]

Bob, you have openly slandered me. Don't think your sophistry can save you. I have copies of everything you posted.

Get off my lawn, too.

/vince, your rants (and yes, they are now rants, not posts) indicate frustration/isolation to me. get out and mix with people for a while and connect. have fun. enjoy yourself in company.

[Vince B]

I dont believe the IFBB should stand in the way of the boundless creative mind of the human being. It is what drives the human species forward and it should never be repressed or doused, stunting growth and destroying free will.

The people that want to transform their bodies with pharmacuticals for their own creative purposes should be allowed to do so as long as they dont hurt another person. The individual has the choice and that is what the IFBB is allowing, individual freedoms and choices.

Some of you are facist wanting to control the human imagination. Some of you should go live in a communist country and see how the binding of human creativity and expression destroys progress and crushes souls.

The whole issue of steroids in bodybuilding would be resolved if the IFBB would catagorized bodybuilding as an art rather than a sport. It would be that simple.


(no, it should not be allowed in real sports, i.e baseball, they are not creative and because there is no way a level playing ground can be maintained, but those are the only reasons why I think it should be banned. However they should be allow for medical purposes for short term treatments, to deny them is to deny the best medicine to an injured player which is unethical.)

This post is sad. Steroid use has gone so far as to make a lot of the creative processes re training irrelevant. Instead of finding new ways to train many have sought new drugs to take. The result is that hypertrophy theory is not moving forward much at all. For a start, how on earth is anyone going to know what is generating the results if so many use heaps of drugs? Who needs scientific bodybuilding or experience when the drug gurus are worshipped?

[The_Punisher]

I love the Drugs, I love seeing the Freaks on stage, long live BODYBUILDING?...ahwoo!!

[Vince B]

Dr Chimps is worrying about me and that is a worry.

It is pointless trying to debate with the likes of Bob Chick. He is part of the problem in bodybuilding and he should be thrown out with the bath water. A pity.

[dr.chimps]

Dr Chimps is worrying about me and that is a worry.

It is pointless trying to debate with the likes of Bob Chick. He is part of the problem in bodybuilding and he should be thrown out with the bath water. A pity.

Fair enough. I just see you and Howie shouting into the wind and getting increasingly wound up because it doesn't give you the answer you want, is all.

[Vince B]

No worries. Chick is good at putting people down because he is ruthless. Debating with him is like trying to swat a mosquito. I post to support Howie, too. The good guys need the support.

[Van_Bilderass]

I do enjoy the overall bodybuilding lifestyle (without extreme drug use of course).
I would prefer to see the big time pro shows like the ARNOLD with big time production and have the pros on a  lot less drugs. In fact , I would go to the Olmypia and MORE pro events, if they did that, seriously.

So you still want some drugs in bodybuilding? How is this going to help the legality aspect?

Of course I knew you didn't want to eliminate the drugs which is why I couldn't understand why you'd post such ideas.

[nycbull]

This post is sad. Steroid use has gone so far as to make a lot of the creative processes re training irrelevant. Instead of finding new ways to train many have sought new drugs to take. The result is that hypertrophy theory is not moving forward much at all. For a start, how on earth is anyone going to know what is generating the results if so many use heaps of drugs? Who needs scientific bodybuilding or experience when the drug gurus are worshipped?

its hardly sad, its right on the money.....you and Howie are trying to limit the human imagination, you want some kind of controlled experiment conducted by superiors, like Marx. But the superiors are not looking for ways to increase hypertorphy so the people have taken upon themselves.

You may think they are wrong but human progress is not linear it zig zags, sometimes dips but is always moving forward,  you guys want to stop it because your dont have faith in human creativity and ingenuity.

If humans can imagine it then they should be free to seek out ways to bring that imagination to reality.  That is how we have progressed since the beginning of time.

[HowieW]

its hardly sad, its right on the money.....you and Howie are trying to limit the human imagination, you want some kind of controlled experiment conducted by superiors, like Marx. But the superiors are not looking for ways to increase hypertorphy so the people have taken upon themselves.

You may think they are wrong but human progress is not linear it zig zags, sometimes dips but is always moving forward,  you guys want to stop it because your dont have faith in human creativity and ingenuity.

If humans can imagine it then they should be free to seek out ways to bring that imagination to reality.  That is how we have progressed since the beginning of time.

One problem, however. It is the law we are talking about not opinion here

[Palpatine Q]

One problem, however. It is the law we are talking about not opinion here

Howie, no 500 word "I love BBing but don't like the direction it's going" essay today?

What gives?

[El Diablo Blanco]

Howie, you should join musclemission.org.  They have a crusade against steroids.  Let me tell you something.  You're barking up the wrong tree. The only reason that steroids are even in the news is that the gov needs to put up smoke screens to divert the sheeps attention from the failure of the iraq war.  Steroids for 20 years have been a non issue in America and then all of a sudden people act like its a drug that kills.

If you want to save lives and save children stop worrying about steroids and contact your senator about banning cigarettes or alcohol.  Heck thousands and thousands of people die each year from car accidents so you should ask them to ban driving.  Also ban guns, and while your at it did you realize that 4000 soldiers have died in Iraq, how many Americans have died from steroid use?  Yet we have the news acting like steroids are evil and the Iraq war is necessary to protect our freedom.

You have to get your head screwed on straight and stop living your life through the media and see the world for what it really is.

[nycbull]

One problem, however. It is the law we are talking about not opinion here

yes I realize that, it should be in one of your other hundred threads ...but I am still right.

[medz zeppelin]

Howie, you should join musclemission.org.  They have a crusade against steroids.  Let me tell you something.  You're barking up the wrong tree. The only reason that steroids are even in the news is that the gov needs to put up smoke screens to divert the sheeps attention from the failure of the iraq war.  Steroids for 20 years have been a non issue in America and then all of a sudden people act like its a drug that kills.

If you want to save lives and save children stop worrying about steroids and contact your senator about banning cigarettes or alcohol.  Heck thousands and thousands of people die each year from car accidents so you should ask them to ban driving.  Also ban guns, and while your at it did you realize that 4000 soldiers have died in Iraq, how many Americans have died from steroid use?  Yet we have the news acting like steroids are evil and the Iraq war is necessary to protect our freedom.

You have to get your head screwed on straight and stop living your life through the media and see the world for what it really is.

Stark and Howie want to give muslims the steroids.......die a long slow incredibly muscular,strong and tan death

[mossel]

I still think LEE should return and post on getbig again...

[Brutal_1]

No pro or top amateur HAS to risk breaking the law, nor do thay HAVE to compete unfairly. They can choose to compete in the drug tested shows, natural organizations...ensuring they are on equal par with others that share the same mindset.

I think Howie meant being successful IN THE IFBB  

Your response is akin to saying anyone can be a football star, not in the NFL but through different organizations like flag football or the local weekend team 


You simply can't argue the fact that if you want to be a "star" in bodybuilding and grace the pages/covers of FLEX, you have to be in the IFBB i.e. you have to take drugs.   You do more sidestepping than the people on dancing with the stars 

[WadsWorth]

i'm in total agreeance with ALL the above.


well done. keep it up.


WW

[HowieW]

I think Howie meant being successful IN THE IFBB  

Your response is akin to saying anyone can be a football star, not in the NFL but through different organizations like flag football or the local weekend team 


You simply can't argue the fact that if you want to be a "star" in bodybuilding and grace the pages/covers of FLEX, you have to be in the IFBB i.e. you have to take drugs.   You do more sidestepping than the people on dancing with the stars 

Under the current system, you are 100% correct, no question about it, you would need to take BB drugs to get the look needed today to win a major show. No sidstep on my part I always said that.
My issue is simply a legal one. The drug use that is required is in the country (USA) illegal for the most part.
Where the confusion comes in is that the legal reality of drugs is NOT my personal belief.
But a personal belief won't be much of a leagl defense when you get busted.

[Brutal_1]

Under the current system, you are 100% correct, no question about it, you would need to take BB drugs to get the look needed today to win a major show. No sidstep on my part I always said that.
My issue is simply a legal one. The drug use that is required is in the country (USA) illegal for the most part.
Where the confusion comes in is that the legal reality of drugs is NOT my personal belief.
But a personal belief won't be much of a leagl defense when you get busted.

That post was directed to the chicster 

[MB]

What about mandatory blood work?  The IFBB could use it's own doctor to administer blood work testing to every competitor a couple times/year.  Steroids are not tested for, but there are pass/fail criteria set for certain health indicators.  This way, competitors can still use, but the IFBB is looking after the health of it's competitors, which brings some legitimacy to the organization.

[HowieW]

That post was directed to the chicster 

sorry

[mossel]

what would Lee do...

[Vince B]

Now everyone has had it spelled out what the IFBB thinks. If you don't want to take drugs then that is your choice. Enter the natural contests. If you want to be a pro and don't want to take drugs then too bad, just retire. Nice one, Bob.