MESSAGE TO EPHEDRINE USERS!!!!!!!

[natural al]

Walgreens and CVS.

it's sold under the name Bronkaid for asthma.  In FL, they make you fill out a paper when you buy so they can track people who buy dozens of boxes and make meth.  It's prefectly legal if you have asthma symptoms of course.

you can buy it online - a quick google search gave me this, no clue if they're reputable
http://www.ephedra-pills.info/bronkaid.html

you have to sign a register in michigan now.  I have asthma and I took some bronkaid this winter while I had a bit of a cough, it cleared up pretty quick...

[Moosejay]

I loved it when I used it. As long as my diet was clean, I never felt weak.   

[Sir William Idol]

i agree with the previous posters.

[HTexan]

i couldn't stand that shit oh well, guess hydrocut hardcore will have to do as my daily pick-me-upper.

[YoungBlood]

Please elaborate how it messes with your health. I hope you're not talking about adrenal fatigue or burnout.

Here's a great post by Ryno (not THAT Ryno aka Jack London....this one is actually SMART!) on Muscle Mayhem:

There is quite a bit of techie-talk in here, but I thought is necessary to get my point across.  These are very complex drugs, clen especially, so this is just a sort of quick overview of there mechanism of action and how they should be used, in my humble opinion of course.

Clenbuterol and ephedrine are agonists (activator) of adrenergic receptors, specifically the beta adrenergic receptor, which are widely distributed throughout the body. There are three known subtypes of the beta receptor; 1,2, and 3.  Beta1 stimulation results in increased heart rate, increased cardiac contractility, and increased lipolysis.  Beta2 increases muscle and liver glycogenolysis, increase glucagon (opposite of insulin) increase blood glucose, and major vascular dilation/relaxation. Beta2 also mediates clenbuterol stimulated anabolic effects in muscle, but that is another VERY complicated issue. Beta3, so far only isolated in adipocytes (fat cells), increases lipolysis.  Clenbuterol is very specific for beta2, while ephedrine is relatively non selective, and therefore a better lipolytic agent. While caffeine is a totally different class of compound, a methylxanthine, it still has potent affects on the CNS.  It works not via adrenergic receptors, but it has heavy influence of calcium and cAMP levels within cells, which is very significant, especially with regards to smooth muscle, like that in blood vessels and intestines.  The reason why caffeine is so often combined with ephedrine is most preparations is that the increased intracellular calcium, and uncoupling of calcium with membrane hyperpolarization, is synergistic with the neurotropic effects of ephedrine.  The result is a much stronger thermogenic and neurotransmission effect. 

The jitteryness, increased heartrate,and  increased bloodpressure (regardless of the vasodilatory effects) from clen and ephedrine result from their stimulation of  receptor in the sympathetic neurons.  The anabolic properties of clen are EXTREMELY interesting, occuring from an entirely different mechanism than androgens.  Whatever fat loss benefit this drug offers is far less than ephedrine or other beta1+beta3 specific compounds.

As far as practical use is concerned, there are obviously many variations.  The problem is that the beta adrenergic receptors quickly adapt to stimulation by densensitization and downregulation.  Desensitization occurs very rapidly via lowered expression of adenylate cyclase and cAMP within the cell.  This is unexcapable, even with regards to the beta3, only present in fat.  Downregulation has only been shown to occur primarily with expression of receptor mRNAs.  The actual receptor population has not been shown to decrease, although it would certainly happen over time.  I just don't think the turnover rate is fast enough for it to be a problem in short cycles.  Densenstization is the problem, and this occurs very rapidly.  There are no human studies looking at this phenomenon (primarily because extended studies would be required with constant stimulation and such would be extremely hazardous, and hence would not get NIH approval), but my guess is that significant desensitization will occur anywhere from 1-4 weeks.  Not very specific, but I have no hard data to support that, only hearsay.

For fatloss, the best protocol, IMO, would be 1 weekon/1 off.  At least that way there will be little desensitization, and the sympathetic nervous system will not be in constant fight or flight.  THat is assuming that one doesn't use ECA during the off weeks.  That would be the worst thing to do.  You must have periods of complete cessation of ECA, clen, and ehem, CAFFEINE, if you want to recover properly. Ephedrine and caffeine both have halflife of 3-7 hours, while clenbuterol is considerably longer, 10-12 if I rememeber correctly.  Using caffeine during ones off period of clen/ECA will not affect the adrenergic receptors, but is will lead to problems with neuronal desensitization.  My advice, when not using clen or ECA, don't use any form of CNS stimulant. Simply upping the dosage will not serve any purpose as the receptors have been maximally stimulated and the intracellular machinery has been in effect shut off. A total break from use is required. However, as long as the desensitization is reversed periodically there should not be a reduction in effectiveness of these compounds over the long term.  Clen especiall could be used post androgen use if so desired as a way to circumvent the loss of muscle that will inevitably occur after steroid cycles.  Clens neurotropic and myotropic effects could be of great use, but I still recommend coming off everything when stopping androgen use.

Since ever individual seems to have a variable tolerance for clen, I would suggest starting at 50 mcg day for men, and 25mcg day for women.  If you feel okay up the dose slowly in 20mcg increments every 2-3 days.  You will most likely be jittery, but you should not feel sick on excessively trembly.  Increase the dose to that point, and hold it there.  THere next on period can begin at that dose.  THere is no need to pyramid up or down once you know your maximal tolerable and effective dose.  Ephedrine should be used in same manner.  Find the set point and stick with that dose.  By all means though, step up gradually if you have never used these compounds before.  They are not like androgens in that an accute excessive dose can kill you.  IMO, they are the most deadly of the commonly used bodybuilding drugs, except for diuretics.

Now, while neither ephedrine, nor any of the other beta agonists, have any noticeable anabolic effects, clenbuterol does.  It does stimulate muscle-specific protein anabolism that is in part due to beta-2 adrenergic receptor agonism.  Rats that have the beta2 receptor knocked out do not show any of the anabolic or innervation effects of clen.  So the beta2 receptor is required, but probably not sufficient, since other beta agonists do not have clens anabolic effects. 

Clenbuterol is able to produce effects similar to innervation in muscle fibers that have been denervated.   It effects expression of neurotropic (compounds normally stimulated or released by neurons) compounds such as IGF-II and an entire host of other signaling proteins, and greatly inhances local muscle expression of IGF-1 and the various binding proteins involved.  It is used clinically in patients with neuronal damage, which is normally associated with extreme muscle wasting.  The innervation effects are totally unique to clen, as far as I know.  This innervation is the most important feature of clen anabolism.  It would in effect make ones muscles much more effecient.  This is readily apparent as the rapid increases in strength seen with initiation of clen usage.  It could potential be dangerous however.  Depending on the severity, the increase in muscle contractility combined with greater motor unit activation could override the inherent protective effects the muscle has in place and injuries could result.  This is only for very extreme cases, but still worth mentioning.  THe more and more I look into clen, the more and more I think it has the potential to be very useful for bodybuilders and other strength athletes.

Another very interesting and unique effect it that when clen is combined with triodothyronine (T3), there is a change of phenotype of slow twitch muscle fibers to fast twitch. This could have major implications to bodybuilders, since the fast twitch fibers have a much greater capacity for growth. The activity of several ribosomal proteins involved in protein synthesis is also heavily increased.  How important this is to muscle hypertrophy I don't know.  The studies I have seen are all in rats however, and they do not say the dosing used, so I can't say what doses caused these effects.  THat being said, rats physiology and metabolism is highly analogus to humans, so the data seen with rat studies is probably applicable to humans. 

[A2daMIR]

not at a dose of 25 mg, and not when you have carbs+protein+fat in your bloodstream as you sip bcaas and you dont move around in between sets..


 

but 400mg of it before you go out dancing..lol..yup thats muscle wasting for sure

can you brush your teeth while taking ephedrine?

[The Coach]

VanBilderass, yes that is mostly what I'm referring too. Over the last couple of months I've been working with an endo on this as well as other things that relate to this and its connection.

[candidizzle]

i couldn't stand that shit oh well, guess hydrocut hardcore will have to do as my daily pick-me-upper.

you can buy a bottle of a hundred 200mg caffiene tabs for 7 bucks and save the other 63 and get the same effects of that hydroxycut, bro

[I ETA PI]

Ephederine or ECA is a good fat burner and even that maybe an questionable.........but thats about it. As with anything that effects the CNS ie; "Fat Burners" , caffine, sugar ect, ect, it gives a false sense of energy and actually does more harm than good. For the last 6-8 weeks I've been doing ALOT of research on the way this effects almost all of the endocrine system and training and overall health. Lets just say it relates to the 'crash' you have when you come down. But the "crash" maybe the least of worries.

How exactly does Ephedrine exert its effects on the CNS, independent from the PNS?  Since you avoided my questions on the pharmacology of insulin, I'm assuming you'll be too proud to do the same with this. 

I'd specifically like you to address this "false sense of energy."  I felt pretty secure in my understanding of Beta receptor agonism, but your insight on the falsity of its "sense of energy" has me quite intrigued!

If this "crash" you're speaking of in your "research" has a specific psychoactive action, I'd love to hear about it!  Are you speaking of adrenal fatigue? 

I'm certain that your research into catecholamine activation takes into consideration the activation of central catecholamine levels in relation to peripheral sympathetic tone, correct?  Because we all know how much of a role this plays in endocrine system function!

I'm also MOST concerned with the specific CNS actions of caffeine.  I'm sure that all your research in its effects as a competitive inhibitor of adenosine has given you MUCH insight into its action on Dopamine.  And, we all know how the dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine neurotransmitter grouping will alter the effects of a Beta agonist!



I'd LOVE to get more insight into your "research."  Surely someone with your vast knowledge will be unable to skirt another attack on your ignorance of such topics. 
Douche.

[candidizzle]

How exactly does Ephedrine exert its effects on the CNS, independent from the PNS?  Since you avoided my questions on the pharmacology of insulin, I'm assuming you'll be too proud to do the same with this. 

I'd specifically like you to address this "false sense of energy."  I felt pretty secure in my understanding of Beta receptor agonism, but your insight on the falsity of its "sense of energy" has me quite intrigued!

If this "crash" you're speaking of in your "research" has a specific psychoactive action, I'd love to hear about it!  Are you speaking of adrenal fatigue? 

I'm certain that your research into catecholamine activation takes into consideration the activation of central catecholamine levels in relation to peripheral sympathetic tone, correct?  Because we all know how much of a role this plays in endocrine system function!

I'm also MOST concerned with the specific CNS actions of caffeine.  I'm sure that all your research in its effects as a competitive inhibitor of adenosine has given you MUCH insight into its action on Dopamine.  And, we all know how the dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine neurotransmitter grouping will alter the effects of a Beta agonist!



I'd LOVE to get more insight into your "research."  Surely someone with your vast knowledge will be unable to skirt another attack on your ignorance of such topics. 
Douche.

wow thats a massive owning

[The Coach]

How's that an owning?

Wow man, those are some big fancy words. Are you going to deny that stimulants that can possibly be a cause of adrenal fatigue?

[I ETA PI]

How's that an owning?

Wow man, those are some big fancy words. Are you going to deny that stimulants that can possibly be a cause of adrenal fatigue?

I'm saying you have no fucking clue what adrenal fatigue is.

Aside from Addison's, there is no such thing as adrenal fatigue.  It isn't an acceptable medical diagnosis. 

What's even more humorous is the fact that most "alternative practitioners" recommend various forms of STIMULANTS for the FAKE disease called "adrenal fatigue."


So yes, I'm going to deny that stimulants can possibly be a cause of adrenal fatigue.  I'm also going to go beyond that and deny that adrenal fatigue is even a real fucking disease. 




Now, to save face in the proof of your ignorance, I'll give you another chance to explain the pharmacology of the psychoactive substances you spoke as an authority on earlier.

[candidizzle]

How's that an owning?

Wow man, those are some big fancy words. Are you going to deny that stimulants that can possibly be a cause of adrenal fatigue?

tranlation= i have no idea what you just said.

[The Coach]

I'm saying you have no fucking clue what adrenal fatigue is.

Aside from Addison's, there is no such thing as adrenal fatigue.  It isn't an acceptable medical diagnosis. 

What's even more humorous is the fact that most "alternative practitioners" recommend various forms of STIMULANTS for the FAKE disease called "adrenal fatigue."


So yes, I'm going to deny that stimulants can possibly be a cause of adrenal fatigue.  I'm also going to go beyond that and deny that adrenal fatigue is even a real fucking disease. 




Now, to save face in the proof of your ignorance, I'll give you another chance to explain the pharmacology of the psychoactive substances you spoke as an authority on earlier.

Your the only who called it a "disease", from what I understand it's a syndrome and yes there is a correlation related to Addisons but it could also be called non-Addison's hypoadrenia, neurasthenia and adrenal neurasthenia....I understand that adrenal fatigue is probably the laymans term for it.
Shortly because I am just starting to learn about this, unlike you who seems to be a doctor and me just a trainer who enjoys learning, reading and doing research because I didn't have privilege of finishing college..........but.... .from what I have learned so far is that when a person is stressed, the body reacts a stress response through the sympathetic nervous system. When this happends epinephrine is secreted through the adrenal medulla and the hypothalamus pituitary releases ACTH which in turns causes the adrenal cortex to increase the production of cortisol.

When we have a high stress situation the production of cortisol is increased to such a high level that the can become exhausted and at that time DHEA is will start to decrease with stress. But with chronic stress there is a decompensation of DHEA at the same time cortisol levels are rising.


I'm not done...I'm leaving work right now and will finish my thought when I get home, but I have more. Dude, like I said, I may not have the formal schooling you have but I am damn well willing to learn and you trying to belittle someone just shows your true character, I hope to God your not a Dr. but don't put someone down just because you might know more.

[The Coach]

tranlation= i have no idea what you just said.

and oh BTW......I do know what he said!

[candidizzle]

sensitive as a 10 year old girl..

[NeverTrustABlonde]

ephedrine is blah.... i stopped taking that when i was like 18.... moved on to real drugs!

[Stubborn]

sensitive as a 10 year old girl..

WTF

[Necrosis]

I'm saying you have no fucking clue what adrenal fatigue is.

Aside from Addison's, there is no such thing as adrenal fatigue.  It isn't an acceptable medical diagnosis. 

What's even more humorous is the fact that most "alternative practitioners" recommend various forms of STIMULANTS for the FAKE disease called "adrenal fatigue."


So yes, I'm going to deny that stimulants can possibly be a cause of adrenal fatigue.  I'm also going to go beyond that and deny that adrenal fatigue is even a real fucking disease. 




Now, to save face in the proof of your ignorance, I'll give you another chance to explain the pharmacology of the psychoactive substances you spoke as an authority on earlier.

on what grounds are you denying adrenal fatigue exists? it is a syndrome with an complex aggregate of symptoms. It does have some subjective measures however. I am personally on the fence wrt to it.

[I ETA PI]

on what grounds are you denying adrenal fatigue exists? it is a syndrome with an complex aggregate of symptoms. It does have some subjective measures however. I am personally on the fence wrt to it.

I'm denying adrenal fatigue as a disease on the grounds of it not being an accepted medical diagnosis. 

A few quacks selling gimmicks on the net does not an accepted medical diagnosis make.  When there is proper AMA guidelines to the diagnosis and treatment of this "disease," I'll call it that. 
Until then, it is a made up gimmick that ignorant asses with no backing knowledge like to talk about.

[candidizzle]

WTF

what do you consider a "real drug", girl?

[I ETA PI]

and oh BTW......I do know what he said!

Understanding the English language, and comprehension of material are two very different things.  
Anyone with a completed "hooked on phonics" program can "know" what I wrote.  


You have not but a clue as to what I'm talking about.  Please answer the questions I posed, lest you continue spouting off on subjects you have no understanding of.  

[NeverTrustABlonde]

what do you consider a "real drug", girl?

i think when ephedra wasn't doing it i moved on to crystal.... sadly...

[candidizzle]

i think when ephedra wasn't doing it i moved on to crystal.... sadly...

ahhh okay, well i guess you werent kidding.   is that you you have had in your avatar bfore? your much too pretty to have done crystal for a long period of time. 

[NeverTrustABlonde]

ahhh okay, well i guess you werent kidding.   is that you you have had in your avatar bfore? your much too pretty to have done crystal for a long period of time. 

to be completely honest I think I went through every kind of "phase" I could have possibly gone through... I can't be a recreational user of anything, so I just stay away from anything and everything all together, good thing I snapped out of it pretty young.... I should have a degree in "self destruction" by now, I'm so fucking good at it!