Iran Begins Installing More Centrifuges

[War-Horse]

Some people work well and play with others, while some have a track record of bullshit. Iran does not work well with other.

How could anyone not like us?   We're freedom fighters.   

[headhuntersix]

Well that crap is overblown...that phase or idea will never go away but we look out for us, atleast that used to be the idea. Not making iraq pay...for iraq blows my mind. Sen Levin made some good points..none of which are P4's fault or lane..but good points.

[Brixtonbulldog]

Yes, and give them all a Dannon Yogurt Tattoo for the added extra badass to wart off the arabs

Yes... absolutely.

[Brixtonbulldog]

It's as bloodthirsty and lawless country as Iran or Iraq. 

The only bloodthirsty and lawless people there are militant ARABS living in that country. 

Israel is nothing like Iran or Iraq.  I'm not surprised you know nothing about it.

[War-Horse]

The only bloodthirsty and lawless people there are militant ARABS living in that country. 

Israel is nothing like Iran or Iraq.  I'm not surprised you know nothing about it.

Man you sure need to work on comprehension.  Ill bet your a "20something"  know it all.

[Bindare_Dundat]

The only bloodthirsty and lawless people there are militant ARABS living in that country. 

Israel is nothing like Iran or Iraq.  I'm not surprised you know nothing about it.

 

Another victim of propaganda.

[24KT]

The only bloodthirsty and lawless people there are militant ARABS living in that country. 

These veteran IDF soldiers may hold a different opinion

Burning Conscience: Israeli Soldiers Speak Out

A searing interview with Avichai Sharon and Noam Chayut, both veterans of the Israeli Defense Forces and members of Breaking the Silence. Sharon and Chayut served during the second intifada, an on-going bloodbath that has claimed the lives of over three thousand Palestinians and nine-hundred-fifty Israelis. After thorough introspection, these young men have chosen to speak out about their experiences as self-described "brutal occupiers of a disputed land." Producer: Sat Gwin (2005)

[Nordic Superman]

Wait, let me get this straight, the liberal apologists in this thread believe it's OK for Iran to have a nuclear arsenal because their belief is that the US is led by fundamental zealots and that they think it's their religious duty to wage war, as do every other nation?

So by this I can deduce that a liberal apologists would rather cut of his/her nose to spite the face. You would rather increase international hostilities because country X did this so country Y can do it too.

Also Hugo, what the Iranian president said may not directly be "I want to wipe Israel off the map"... but... ask yourself this; do you believe the US would like to see Iran "disappear"? I'd imagine you'd answer yes, the US would like to see Iran "disappear". So why, when Iran on numerous occasions has made its hostilities towards Israel VERY clear that they're not in the game of destroying Israel, rather they only wish to remove Zionism.

Some rebuttals to these statements would be much appreciated.

[Decker]

The only bloodthirsty and lawless people there are militant ARABS living in that country. 

Israel is nothing like Iran or Iraq.  I'm not surprised you know nothing about it.

Israel's ownership of nucular weapons is a de facto violation of international law.  That's easy.  Israel killed 1200 hundred re-invading Lebanon.  Israel's bombing included factories, water systems and Christian churches.

Israel supports terrorism:  Israel celebrates Irgun hotel bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/22/wbomb22.xml

Sanctioning Terror: Israeli Death Squads and Torture Chambers
http://www.mit.edu/activities/thistle/v9/9.06/3terror.html

I'm surprised you don't know these things.  Israel has a long bloody history.

[Decker]

Wait, let me get this straight, the liberal apologists in this thread believe it's OK for Iran to have a nuclear arsenal because their belief is that the US is led by fundamental zealots and that they think it's their religious duty to wage war, as do every other nation?

So by this I can deduce that a liberal apologists would rather cut of his/her nose to spite the face. You would rather increase international hostilities because country X did this so country Y can do it too.

Also Hugo, what the Iranian president said may not directly be "I want to wipe Israel off the map"... but... ask yourself this; do you believe the US would like to see Iran "disappear"? I'd imagine you'd answer yes, the US would like to see Iran "disappear". So why, when Iran on numerous occasions has made its hostilities towards Israel VERY clear that they're not in the game of destroying Israel, rather they only wish to remove Zionism.

Some rebuttals to these statements would be much appreciated.

Iran has 70 million people...it's not a thug from The Sopranos.  You don't make countries "disappear."  Iran has the right to develop nuclear power for domestic purposes. 

Israel has made its intentions clear--it wants to run the middle east and marginalize any competition.

I don't see anything wrong with MAD in the middle east.  It worked for the US and the Soviets.

[24KT]

I don't see anything wrong with MAD in the middle east.  It worked for the US and the Soviets.

That proved a workable deterrent, because both the United States and the Soviet Union had some degree of sense
There's one country in that little scenario of MAD in the middle east that I suspect if they thought they were going down, would be willing to take the rest of the planet with them.

[Nordic Superman]

Iran has 70 million people...it's not a thug from The Sopranos.  You don't make countries "disappear."  Iran has the right to develop nuclear power for domestic purposes. 

Israel has made its intentions clear--it wants to run the middle east and marginalize any competition.

I don't see anything wrong with MAD in the middle east.  It worked for the US and the Soviets.

So, are you denying you believe it's OK for Iran to develop nuclear weaponry because Israel has?

[240 is Back]

Iran is trying to cripple our economy by calling on OPEC to drop the dollar.

They want us to starve.  Can anyone deny that? 

[OzmO]

Extreme religious views have much influence in Iranian government.   

That is not a good thing if they are to have nuclear weapons.

[OzmO]

Imagine if 200,000 troops weren't tied down in Iraq and we had them at the Afghan Iran border...............

Maybe this is really what invading iraq was all about in the first place...

[Decker]

That proved a workable deterrent, because both the United States and the Soviet Union had some degree of sense
There's one country in that little scenario of MAD in the middle east that I suspect if they thought they were going down, would be willing to take the rest of the planet with them.

I still don't believe that rationale.  

Countries are not run by impractical people.  The leaders may have fiery asinine rhetoric but that's all it is.  If that were not the case, then Pakistan and India would have sparked WWIII already.

To me, I believe we had better start developing techniques for dealing with more and more countries with nuclear capabilities.  

The nuclear genie is out of the bottle and technology will only improve making the manufacture of such bombs more likely.

We have to find a way to deal with that.

[OzmO]

I still don't believe that rationale. 

Countries are not run by impractical people.  The leaders may have fiery asinine rhetoric but that's all it is.  If that were not the case, then Pakistan and India would have sparked WWIII already.

To me, I believe we had better start developing techniques for dealing with more and more countries with nuclear capabilities. 

The nuclear genie is out of the bottle and technology will only improve making the manufacture of such bombs more likely.

We have to find a way to deal with that.

I agree,  i don't see how we can stop that from happening.  As more and more countries get nukes it will actually be more dangerous that it was in the cold war .

[Decker]

So, are you denying you believe it's OK for Iran to develop nuclear weaponry because Israel has?

That would be illegal.

But as a matter of course, as technology advances the creation of a nuclear weapon is likely imminent.

I think MAD is a pretty damn effective strategy.

It's worked for those nuts in India and Pakistan.  It worked for us with the Soviets.

[Decker]

I agree,  i don't see how we can stop that from happening.  As more and more countries get nukes it will actually be more dangerous that it was in the cold war .

Yeah, nuclear weapons are the great equalizer amongst countries.  All we are left with is a choice between continued existence under the threat of annihilation or annihilation itself.

Everyone in the room has a gun pointed at each other's head.  What a great life that is.

[240 is Back]

Imagine if 200,000 troops weren't tied down in Iraq and we had them at the Afghan Iran border...............

Maybe this is really what invading iraq was all about in the first place...

Iran is in the middle.  They started feeling the heat when we invaded Afghanistan and iraq, started building a pipeline which coincidentally stops at their borders lol...

The heat got greater when we massed troops at their border last march.  3 carriers in their waters.  Then we almost had a gulf of tonken incident when those 15 british sailors were escorted into Iranain water, then their escort suddenly left, and they were alone, surrounded by 6 iranian boats, with order to defend themselves.  A massacre would definitely have led to war with iran.  But iran didn't take the bait.  Was that by design, or just bad luck, that they were dropped off for an incident right as we had the troops ready?

Look, iran needs to realize that they happened to be born on top of all that delicious oil, and when you have a lot of resources, you have a duty to share with others, or be ready to be attacked for it.  If the whole country is in a famine, and you were lucky enough to have a cow to kill... you'd better not have a big BBQ every afternoon while your hungry neighbors stare.  You gotta share, or be ready to get attacked by desperate people.  They can let US firms manage their oil, they can still get very rich, and they ensure powers like US and EUR dont succomb to china/russia.

[War-Horse]

Iran is trying to cripple our economy by calling on OPEC to drop the dollar.

They want us to starve.  Can anyone deny that? 

NO.  Bush is killing america by not allowing Iraqi profits to support the war.....i mean Occupation.

And allowing the FED to create money out of thin air, and to allow it to become a mortgage company.

[War-Horse]

Iran is in the middle.  They started feeling the heat when we invaded Afghanistan and iraq, started building a pipeline which coincidentally stops at their borders lol...

The heat got greater when we massed troops at their border last march.  3 carriers in their waters.  Then we almost had a gulf of tonken incident when those 15 british sailors were escorted into Iranain water, then their escort suddenly left, and they were alone, surrounded by 6 iranian boats, with order to defend themselves.  A massacre would definitely have led to war with iran.  But iran didn't take the bait.  Was that by design, or just bad luck, that they were dropped off for an incident right as we had the troops ready?

Look, iran needs to realize that they happened to be born on top of all that delicious oil, and when you have a lot of resources, you have a duty to share with others, or be ready to be attacked for it.  If the whole country is in a famine, and you were lucky enough to have a cow to kill... you'd better not have a big BBQ every afternoon while your hungry neighbors stare.  You gotta share, or be ready to get attacked by desperate people.  They can let US firms manage their oil, they can still get very rich, and they ensure powers like US and EUR dont succomb to china/russia.

Good points.

[Mars]

Iran hasnt attacked countries for decades, the most dangerous country in that region is Israel who dragged your country into the disaster in Iraq.
Israel can attack every country in the middle east they want.

[Brixtonbulldog]

Israel's ownership of nucular weapons is a de facto violation of international law.  That's easy.  Israel killed 1200 hundred re-invading Lebanon.  Israel's bombing included factories, water systems and Christian churches.

Israel supports terrorism:  Israel celebrates Irgun hotel bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/22/wbomb22.xml

Sanctioning Terror: Israeli Death Squads and Torture Chambers
http://www.mit.edu/activities/thistle/v9/9.06/3terror.html

I'm surprised you don't know these things.  Israel has a long bloody history.

Both sides have elements with genuine and reasonable efforts and murderous and horrid efforts.  Both sides have good elements and bad elements.  The overwhelming principle is that far more terrorism against innocents is perpotrated by Palestinians than by Israelis along with instigating the crisis itself.

But..

The Israeli military mostly defends itself from terrorism by attacking terrorists as best it can.

Palestinian terrorism mostly murder innocent Israelis to appease their hatred of Jews and further thier insane fanatical religion.

[24KT]

...when you have a lot of resources, you have a duty to share with others, or be ready to be attacked for it.  If the whole country is in a famine, and you were lucky enough to have a cow to kill... you'd better not have a big BBQ every afternoon while your hungry neighbors stare.  You gotta share, or be ready to get attacked by desperate people.

Using that rationale, ...how does one reconcile the hostily displayed in the USA for Mexicans who move mountains to get into the USA? How would one react if America suddenly found themselves under attack by hungry Ethiopians or sanction crippled Iraqi's? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, and if one wants to use a line of reasoning, ...it had better hold up to the mirror test. When your own nation can stand up to and the standards it sets for others, then the argument is sound, ...until then, ...it's simply hypocritical imperialism isn't it?