**Insulin and GH COMBO**

[meso82]

I've heard plenty of opinions about the effectiveness of GH vs the effectiveness of GH + insulin.
I'd love to hear everyones experiences or thoughts on the subject.
The apparent dangers with insulin make it unpopular with the mainstream, but all competitors I know (with decent size) say its definately the real deal. They say don't bother using GH on its own. Also, the fact that insulin is much cheaper than GH but is often said to DOUBLE the size gains, makes it appealing .

So obviously if you're going to do it you have to do it right.
So can anyone here share with us how to do it right?
Or even how you did it wrong? Things to avoid etc.

[candidizzle]

I've heard plenty of opinions about the effectiveness of GH vs the effectiveness of GH + insulin.
I'd love to hear everyones experiences or thoughts on the subject.
The apparent dangers with insulin make it unpopular with the mainstream, but all competitors I know (with decent size) say its definately the real deal. They say don't bother using GH on its own. Also, the fact that insulin is much cheaper than GH but is often said to DOUBLE the size gains, makes it appealing .

So obviously if you're going to do it you have to do it right.
So can anyone here share with us how to do it right?
Or even how you did it wrong? Things to avoid etc.

most of those guys wouldnt have the capability to let you know what they did wrong.....cuz theyd be dead.

[krazee]

I've heard plenty of opinions about the effectiveness of GH vs the effectiveness of GH + insulin.
I'd love to hear everyones experiences or thoughts on the subject.
The apparent dangers with insulin make it unpopular with the mainstream, but all competitors I know (with decent size) say its definately the real deal. They say don't bother using GH on its own. Also, the fact that insulin is much cheaper than GH but is often said to DOUBLE the size gains, makes it appealing .

So obviously if you're going to do it you have to do it right.
So can anyone here share with us how to do it right?
Or even how you did it wrong? Things to avoid etc.

I have used GH without insulin and have great sucess in it. IMO it depends on how long of a cycle you use with GH....4 weeks will just not cut it.....12 weeks at least, also I find it depends on what you are taking at the same time as far as other aas.

[meso82]

Yeh, unfortunately a more common side (.. death.. eeep!)
Every other insulin thread is flooded by 'touch it and your fuked'.
Nonetheless guys are using it with good results. How do they do it?

[krazee]

Yeh, unfortunately a more common side (.. death.. eeep!)
Every other insulin thread is flooded by 'touch it and your fuked'.
Nonetheless guys are using it with good results. How do they do it?

My honest opinion bro is doctor monitored, that would be the only way I would touch it. My grandfather had diabeties and now my sister has it...anything that might give me the chance of having it, I have nixed out of my regime.

[abc123]

My honest opinion bro is doctor monitored, that would be the only way I would touch it. My grandfather had diabeties and now my sister has it...anything that might give me the chance of having it, I have nixed out of my regime.

If used properly insulin will actually reduce your chances of developing Type 1 Diabetes.  It takes the stress off of your pancreas, which has to work extra hard to produce insulin in the presence of high carbs.  Too many carbs will gradually destroy the beta cells of the pancreas because it has to work overdrive to produce enough insulin to cover the carbs.  This is why many fat people, who live on tons of carbs, develop Diabetes.

Think of it in this over simplified way: the pancreas only has a finite amount of insulin it can produce in your lifetime.

Exogenous insulin after (or before) your workout will take the stress off of the pancreas to produce a lot of insulin to cover your PWO carb shake (or your pre, during and post workout shakes).

[Vet]

If used properly insulin will actually reduce your chances of developing Type 1 Diabetes.  It takes the stress off of your pancreas, which has to work extra hard to produce insulin in the presence of high carbs.  Too many carbs will gradually destroy the beta cells of the pancreas because it has to work overdrive to produce enough insulin to cover the carbs.  This is why many fat people, who live on tons of carbs, develop Diabetes.

Think of it in this over simplified way: the pancreas only has a finite amount of insulin it can produce in your lifetime.

Exogenous insulin after (or before) your workout will take the stress off of the pancreas to produce a lot of insulin to cover your PWO carb shake (or your pre, during and post workout shakes).

You need to review your diabetes "types" before you make a post like that. 

[abc123]

I understand your concern, but Type 2 Diabetes can progress to Type 1.

[Vet]

I understand your concern, but Type 2 Diabetes can progress to Type 1.

When I first read your post, I thought WTF?  So this twit is saying that my dad got to be diabetic at age 2 because he ate too much sugar, and I was diabetic at age 12 because I ate too much sugar---even though I was growing up on a farm eating probably the most wholesome diet a kid could where my parents were pretty limiting on the sugar we got?  NO!.  And then I started to feel a rant building, but I decided to reread what you had posted instead.... 


I still think you need to clarify your "types" of diabetes. 

From the American Diabetes Association:

Type 1 diabetes is usually diagnosed in children and young adults, and was previously known as juvenile diabetes. In type 1 diabetes, the body does not produce insulin.

and from 1992: 

Insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus (IDDM) is marked by circulating antibodies to a 64,000-M(r) islet cell antigen identified as glutamic acid decarboxylase (GAD)......  Antibodies to GAD were elevated (means +/- 3 SD) in 5% NIDDM cases and in none of the nondiabetic subjects.

 

In type 2 diabetes, either the body does not produce enough insulin or the cells ignore the insulin

Type I diabetes is an autoimmune disease that may or may not have a contributing viral component.  A Type II diabetic doesn't "become" a Type I diabetic, although that term is often used to describe a Type II diabetic who has to take insulin because of decreased insulin production.  Type 2 diabetes mellitus occurs due to insulin resistance (decreased insulin function) combined with reduced insulin secretion. 

Also how do carbohydrates destroy the Beta cells of the pancreas?  Its the acinar cells surrounding the exocrine ducts of the pancreas that secrete digestive enzymes.  The endocrine cells are grouped in the Islets of Langerhans which secretes directly into the blood. 

Also, I think I see what you are trying to say, I've just got caught up on some of the fine points which I'm reading as being flat out wrong. 

[meso82]

If used properly insulin will actually reduce your chances of developing Type 1 Diabetes.  It takes the stress off of your pancreas, which has to work extra hard to produce insulin in the presence of high carbs.  Too many carbs will gradually destroy the beta cells of the pancreas because it has to work overdrive to produce enough insulin to cover the carbs.  This is why many fat people, who live on tons of carbs, develop Diabetes.

Think of it in this over simplified way: the pancreas only has a finite amount of insulin it can produce in your lifetime.

Exogenous insulin after (or before) your workout will take the stress off of the pancreas to produce a lot of insulin to cover your PWO carb shake (or your pre, during and post workout shakes).

Thanks for the info.
I'm trying to get a better understanding of the benefits it has. I know all the bad shit it can do (scary stuff).
The bond it has with GH, also the way test and GH work well together is interesting.

[GetBigOrDieTrying]

Ive used GH and Slin together.

Slin by itself.

And GH by itself.

Ive used GH and Slin together.

Slin by itself.

And GH by itself.

I have never been able to take more than 8IU of Slin. It makes me feel like crap. I train first thing in the morning and there is not ways I can function at work after I shoot slin. So I simply cant afford to use it due to the way it makes me feel. Id rahter feel great and train hard , I can train much harder if im not using it and im more motivated to train.

If I use slin now it will be once a week on a sat after quads. I can then go home relax and eat to my hearts content.

Ive used GH with other AAS twice by itself and has worked great I love it.

GH and Slin I used it with test , EQ and DBOL. I lasted 6 days and then had to stop because I felt like I had flu and was even though sleeping a lot ( which is all I wanted to do) I felt like I had had 2 hours sleep a night. I gained 5kgs in 6 days. Which may also have been a reason for me feeling like death.

Ive never used large dosages simply because I cant handle them when I try to and secondly I can grow on a small dosage at the moment so why push it?

Thats just my personal experience for what its worth.

[abc123]

What type of insulin were you using and what/when were you eating with it?

[GetBigOrDieTrying]

Humalog and Actrapid , normally took 10g carbs per IU using Vitargo and then added whey... Eat a big solid of complex carbs and protein 1 hour later.

[abc123]

At what point do you start to feel poorly?

[reppin203]

When I first read your post, I thought WTF?  So this twit is saying that my dad got to be diabetic at age 2 because he ate too much sugar, and I was diabetic at age 12 because I ate too much sugar---even though I was growing up on a farm eating probably the most wholesome diet a kid could where my parents were pretty limiting on the sugar we got?  NO!.  And then I started to feel a rant building, 

meltdown

[abc123]

meltdown

No, Vet is a wealth of knowledge and keeps things factual.  I for one appreciate having him around.

[Loomis]

No, Vet is a wealth of knowledge and keeps things factual.  I for one appreciate having him around.

Yes,It was the "this twit" that put it over the edge

[Vet]

Yes,It was the "this twit" that put it over the edge

 

[GetBigOrDieTrying]

ABC ,

I find it lasts for about 4 hours... It also tends to get worse the longer im on it. Funny if I use it in the evening its not at bad becasue im at home and can just zone out. When I need to think sharp at work I feel like ive been drugged.

[Vet]

ABC ,

I find it lasts for about 4 hours... It also tends to get worse the longer im on it. Funny if I use it in the evening its not at bad becasue im at home and can just zone out. When I need to think sharp at work I feel like ive been drugged.

Have you ever checked your blood sugar when you felt like this? 

[abc123]

Have you ever checked your blood sugar when you felt like this? 

I agree, get a blood glucose meter and check it every 15 minutes.  I only feel that way if my blood sugar is too high or too low.

[Fulgorre]

1) Get insulin online from a Canadian pharmacy w/o a prescription.  Since it isn't a controlled substance in the USA customs can't touch it.  Gets here fast too.

2) I'm using Humalog in the morning and post workout at 10UI.  I have 100 carbs immediately after taking and then about 50-60 1 hour later when it peaks. I do it intramusclar injeciton so it clears my system in about 3 hours (then I can eat fat yah!)

3) Only done it about 5 times but I can tell you after the 3 hours is up I felt noticably more recovered.  Muscles are noticabely more round too.  Strength has not popped in too much yet nor size.

4) Gotta avoid getting fat so I'm SLIGHTLY limiting carbs throughout the day.  The 2 times I use Humalog we are talking 300 carbs so one must take that into account in the overall diet.

5) No hypoglycemic problems save yawning a few times.