What is Wrong With Socialism and why is Capitalism better?

[Decker]

You are right when you say the government does do some good things but how many times have we seen billions get pissed away and the American taxpayer holding the bill? I just disagree with those that say socialism is the way to go because, IMO, it just promotes more "what can the government do for me?" attitudes.

In the end we only have ourselves to blame.

We need to change our national symbol from the bald eagle to an old dried out pig with little piglets sucking the life out of it.

All government is redistributive in some capacity.  All government must be cultivated to be maintained effectively.

Every single class of people from the plutocrats to the street people wonder "what's in it for me from government?"

Government as tool of personal/class enrichment is the Bush style of governance.  Government as a tool of economic and national sanity was FDR style of governance.

Unfortunately whatever the political regime might be, there will be those looking to take advantage of it...fairly or unfairly.

Do we consume resources and martial labor in a way that is intelligent or wasteful?  How does open-ended indulgent acquisitive success as a goal work under this scrutiny? 

[shootfighter1]

In discussing a lot of this, it seems that the general idea of capitalism is good because it condones acheivement, progress and hard work.
However, I think there are some programs which, by nature, must be more socialistic.  The more I think about medicine, the more I believe it should be regulated to some degree...like utilities.  Not government ran, but government regulated/rules of play.  The competitive market may not be best with regard to health.

[Slapper]

Stalin would agree that Socialism works 

Stalin was never a socialist.

[loco]

Unfortunatly the world you describe here will only exist in Star Trek episodes.

Or in the Amish community.   

"The plain sects typically prohibit insurance, and they assist each other charitably in case of sickness, accident, or property damage. Internal Revenue Service Form 4029 allows one to claim exemption to Social Security taxes under certain very restrictive conditions, and members of the plain sects neither pay the taxes nor receive death, disability and retirement benefits from Social Security.

Because of the lack of insurance, limited access to modern transportation, and remote residences of many plain sect members, the State of Indiana did a study in 1972, finding to their surprise that the plain have equal or better access to medical treatment, compared to other citizens.

Dan Olmsted of United Press International asserts the incidence of autism is virtually nil among the Pennsylvania Dutch.[8] He thinks that it's because the Pennsylvania Dutch do not vaccinate their children, a position that differs from that commonly accepted by medical professionals."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_people#Health

[Mars]

“The planet is being destroyed under our own noses by the capitalist model, the destructive engine of development, ... every day there is more hunger, more misery thanks to the neo-liberal, capitalist model.” The great Hugo Chavez.

[loco]

“The planet is being destroyed under our own noses by the capitalist model, the destructive engine of development, ... every day there is more hunger, more misery thanks to the neo-liberal, capitalist model.” The great Hugo Chavez.

Yeah, and in Venezuela "every day there is more hunger, more misery thanks to the"...not so great Hugo Chavez. 

http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=5526589

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=206164.msg2844472#msg2844472

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=206164.msg2845938#msg2845938  

[Mars]

that counts for the usa too.

[freespirit]

that counts for the usa too.

Absolutely.

[w8tlftr]

Absolutely.

At least in the USA everyone has the chance to work their way from the bottom and make something of themselves if their willing to work hard and make sacrifices. I've done it and I know scores of others that have done the same.

I wonder how far up the ladder I would have gone in a Socialist country? I'm betting not as far.

[Slapper]

I'm going to try to be fair on this one... First of all, there isn't a purely communist country in this world. the USSR, like China, were/are not communist countries. They were/are totalitarian regimes. Neither the Soviets nor the Chinese people were/are in control of industrial production or were/are they classless societies.

Secondly, us humans are communal beings by nature. If you observe animals and, for example the Yanomamis, they hunt only what's necesary. It's us, capitalists, that take part in a suicidal system of survival that will most likely be the most destructive in the history of humankind. I mean, the two main precepts of capitalism: Free flow of abundant capital and continuous growth are unsustainable goals in the long run. Everybody knows that.

So, in the short run, capitalism may be "better", but in the long run it is the least desireable option.

[Brixtonbulldog]

Absolutely.

that counts for the usa too.

Oh brother.. the USA has done more to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, and shelter the homeless than any other country the world over.  You two are absurd.


"but, but... the US is bad too, right?!?!?"  lol... get real

[freespirit]

Oh brother.. the USA has done more to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, and shelter the homeless than any other country the world over.  You two are absurd.


"but, but... the US is bad too, right?!?!?"  lol... get real

How can one be "absurd" after posting a one word post? How many countries have you visited, and what have you seen with your own eyes, in order to make up your own mind? Or do you believe everything that's presented to you by the media?

[Brixtonbulldog]

How can one be "absurd" after posting a one word post? How many countries have you visited, and what have you seen with your own eyes, in order to make up your own mind? Or do you believe everything that's presented to you by the media?

I've been to 5 countries on two continents, N. America and Asia.  Not that it matters to learn the fact since the internet has been available.

Of course I don't believe everything the media tells me.. that's why I'm not a liberal.

[War-Horse]

I've been to 5 countries on two continents, N. America and Asia.  Not that it matters to learn the fact since the internet has been available.

Of course I don't believe everything the media tells me.. that's why I'm not a liberal.

Putting that wooden puzzle, with 4 peices together in daycare today, does not count as "Been" there.

[calmus]

Putting that wooden puzzle, with 4 peices together in daycare today, does not count as "Been" there.

lol. poor britney, gets no respects on the boards.

[Straw Man]

has anyone here noticed that the new math is to PRIVATIZE the PROFIT and SOCIALIZE the LOSS?

actually maybe that's the old math

[calmus]

has anyone here noticed that the new math is to PRIVATIZE the PROFIT and SOCIALIZE the LOSS?

actually maybe that's the old math

That has always been the math.  And in recent years, the trend has grown stronger.

[SAMSON123]

  One of the concepts of Socialism is the idea that money, power and health care should be granted to everyone, including people who don't pull their own weight or do their fair share of the work. That's just plain wrong.

WRONG IS HAVING A SOCIETY THAT DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANYONE IN REGRDS TO MONEY, HEALTH AND EDUCATION AS THE REPUBLIC (NOT DEMOCRACY) THAT YOU HAVE IN AMERIKKKA. HOW DO ANY OF YOU TOLERATE THE NONSENSE OF AMERIKKKA IS BEYOND ME...YOUR GOVERNMENT IS FULL OF LIARS AND HOMOSEXUALS, YOUR JOBS/BUSINESS' ARE SENT OVER SEAS OR TO MEXICO WITHOUT REGARD TO YOUR OWN FINANCIAL NEEDS/INCOMES AND SURVIVALS AND YOUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM WON'T EVEN LOOK AT YOU UNLESS YOU ARE INSURED...NOW THAT IS WRONG!!!!

[Nordic Superman]

WRONG IS HAVING A SOCIETY THAT DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANYONE IN REGRDS TO MONEY, HEALTH AND EDUCATION AS THE REPUBLIC (NOT DEMOCRACY) THAT YOU HAVE IN AMERIKKKA. HOW DO ANY OF YOU TOLERATE THE NONSENSE OF AMERIKKKA IS BEYOND ME...YOUR GOVERNMENT IS FULL OF LIARS AND HOMOSEXUALS, YOUR JOBS/BUSINESS' ARE SENT OVER SEAS OR TO MEXICO WITHOUT REGARD TO YOUR OWN FINANCIAL NEEDS/INCOMES AND SURVIVALS AND YOUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM WON'T EVEN LOOK AT YOU UNLESS YOU ARE INSURED...NOW THAT IS WRONG!!!!

Say's the guy who wishes to impose sharia law on the whole populace of the world.

Go and eat a pig penis salami sausage like you prophet enjoyed back in the old days.

[w8tlftr]

WRONG IS HAVING A SOCIETY THAT DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANYONE IN REGRDS TO MONEY, HEALTH AND EDUCATION AS THE REPUBLIC (NOT DEMOCRACY) THAT YOU HAVE IN AMERIKKKA. HOW DO ANY OF YOU TOLERATE THE NONSENSE OF AMERIKKKA IS BEYOND ME...YOUR GOVERNMENT IS FULL OF LIARS AND HOMOSEXUALS, YOUR JOBS/BUSINESS' ARE SENT OVER SEAS OR TO MEXICO WITHOUT REGARD TO YOUR OWN FINANCIAL NEEDS/INCOMES AND SURVIVALS AND YOUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM WON'T EVEN LOOK AT YOU UNLESS YOU ARE INSURED...NOW THAT IS WRONG!!!!

Piss off, Durka.

[SAMSON123]

When you amerikkkans are standing on soup lines to get your daily ration of watered down chicken broth and crackers you will then open your eyes to the "SYSTEM" you are under. It is just sad that you can not see the error in the ways of your system which is sorely anti-health, anti-freedom, anti-life, anti- democracy etc etc. As a matter of fact if amerikkka was actually a democracy it would be reflective of a socialist society that concerned itself with the health, wealth and physical well being of its people. Amerikkka is none the less a capitalistic society that only concerns itself with greed and the accumulation material matter that benefits no one but the person acquiring it. Sadly it is commonly said over and over that "YOU CAN'T TAKE IT WITH YOU", so what is the point in acquiring so much at the expense and destruction of so many when it won't benefit a person after they become sick or die? Amerikkkas corporate CEOs and executives (titles that means THIEVES) destroy corporations, loot its wealth, cause massive unemployment and loss of pensions, salaries, insurance etc etc and care not in the least about those effected by their actions and greed...and this is a system that you want and praise? When the sinisterness of that system leaves you unemployed and without a place to turn or go...I want to see what Nordic and W8tlftr do? They will be like those who Barack spoke of who will turn to guns, religion or antipathy...

[Nordic Superman]

When you amerikkkans are standing on soup lines to get your daily ration of watered down chicken broth and crackers you will then open your eyes to the "SYSTEM" you are under. It is just sad that you can not see the error in the ways of your system which is sorely anti-health, anti-freedom, anti-life, anti- democracy etc etc. As a matter of fact if amerikkka was actually a democracy it would be reflective of a socialist society that concerned itself with the health, wealth and physical well being of its people. Amerikkka is none the less a capitalistic society that only concerns itself with greed and the accumulation material matter that benefits no one but the person acquiring it. Sadly it is commonly said over and over that "YOU CAN'T TAKE IT WITH YOU", so what is the point in acquiring so much at the expense and destruction of so many when it won't benefit a person after they become sick or die? Amerikkkas corporate CEOs and executives (titles that means THIEVES) destroy corporations, loot its wealth, cause massive unemployment and loss of pensions, salaries, insurance etc etc and care not in the least about those effected by their actions and greed...and this is a system that you want and praise? When the sinisterness of that system leaves you unemployed and without a place to turn or go...I want to see what Nordic and W8tlftr do? They will be like those who Barack spoke of who will turn to guns, religion or antipathy...

So many logical fallacies in this post it's hard to know where to start.

May a slice of bacon be upon muhammad.

[SAMSON123]

So many logical fallacies TRUTHS in this post it's hard to know where to start.

May a slice of bacon be upon muhammad.

AND A YARD OF SALAMI IN YOUR MOTHER

[Dos Equis]

They are based on fundamentally different philosophies. Socialism devalues freedom and the rule of law. The rule of law says you should keep what is yours, socialism says the government should decide on the distribution of resources. Socialism says it is bad to keep what you earned but good to take the earnings of others.

Capitalism is just another word for free enterprize. Which is based on service to your fellow man. You can only get paid and earn a living by providing goods and services that your fellow man wants and is willing to buy. It is based on and compatible with Freedom and the rule of law. Socialism is not.

Yes.  I agree with this.

Really isn't much of a debate. 

[Brixtonbulldog]

WRONG IS HAVING A SOCIETY THAT DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANYONE IN REGRDS TO MONEY, HEALTH AND EDUCATION AS THE REPUBLIC (NOT DEMOCRACY) THAT YOU HAVE IN AMERIKKKA. HOW DO ANY OF YOU TOLERATE THE NONSENSE OF AMERIKKKA IS BEYOND ME...YOUR GOVERNMENT IS FULL OF LIARS AND HOMOSEXUALS, YOUR JOBS/BUSINESS' ARE SENT OVER SEAS OR TO MEXICO WITHOUT REGARD TO YOUR OWN FINANCIAL NEEDS/INCOMES AND SURVIVALS AND YOUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM WON'T EVEN LOOK AT YOU UNLESS YOU ARE INSURED...NOW THAT IS WRONG!!!!

"I TYPE IN ALL CAPS TO SHOW MY ANGER!!!!!!!! AAAAHHHH!!!!!!!!"

Loser..