Author Topic: Why can't science explain God?  (Read 5486 times)

figgs

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3925
  • from realization to infinity
Why can't science explain God?
« on: April 12, 2008, 03:09:38 PM »
Scientists are interested only in facts. They only try to figure out things on the physical level without actually figuring out why they happen, but how they happen. They don't know or recognize any particular reason for these happenings except that they occur as the effects of causes that are set in motion in our daily existence. The true and complete materialist does not believe that we existed in any time except now, nor does he believe in immortality. Therefore, he contradicts himself with the logic that, if there was any time in the history of the universe where there was nothing in and of the universe (pre-bang), there could never have been a creative intent from whence the universe came into being. Therefore, we must assume that there is an eternal presence within our existence.

There is no end.

There is no beginning.

There IS only change.

Law of Conservation: energy can never be created or destroyed, but manifests  in infinite forms and possibilities.

So how can we define God in a manner for a basis of agreement? This is the simplest description I can conceive of:

God = universe (or multiverse)
Everything in and of the universe = God (there is no separation)
People = the universe (God) consciously experiencing itself
Death = the point in which you remember what you were all along: God (all is one, all is God)

And so goes with the greatest mystery of all the ages...

Discuss
~

m8

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10796
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2008, 03:12:52 PM »
"That which needs to be proved cannot be worth much"

Obvious Gimmick

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6290
  • I'd hit it
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2008, 03:14:36 PM »
"Something that needs to be proved cannot be worth much"

deep. wheres that from?

m8

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10796
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2008, 03:16:35 PM »
deep. wheres that from?

Ever heard of Friedrich Nietzsche?  :)

onlyme

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19327
  • Don't Fuck With Bears
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2008, 03:17:20 PM »
Same reason they can't explain this

Obvious Gimmick

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6290
  • I'd hit it
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2008, 03:18:49 PM »
Ever heard of Friedrich Nietzsche?  :)

me and freddy go way back :)

m8

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10796
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2008, 03:21:08 PM »
me and freddy go way back :)



Boom, monster moustache.

figgs

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3925
  • from realization to infinity
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2008, 03:21:38 PM »
"That which needs to be proved cannot be worth much"

If proving a thing is a necessity, why does it have little worth?
~

YoungBlood

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6777
  • Weee!
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2008, 03:29:39 PM »
Scientists are interested only in facts. They only try to figure out things on the physical level without actually figuring out why they happen, but how they happen. They don't know or recognize any particular reason for these happenings except that they occur as the effects of causes that are set in motion in our daily existence.


I'm not so sure I agree wholeheartedly with the above. :-\

Scientists try to figure out the "how," and the "why" is usually a correlation that goes along with it. Using a very basic example: the body needs a heart. Why? To pump blood and distribute oxygen and nutrients within the blood throughout the body. So on and so forth. Why does a heart stop? Lack of proper minerals, vitamins, nutrition, water, etc... Why does the body/brain die? The heart stops and/or the brain no longer has sufficient oxygen levels (or aneurysm or stroke etc...). 
As well, scientists find out these reasons, similar to why a chef has a particular recipe. You can cook a batch of fried chicken using "a dab of this, dash of that and a sprinkle..." but if you have a recipe printed out of a book saying in exact amounts "1/4cp of salt, 1/4tblspn butter..." you can replicate the taste and have it be spot on thereafter.
The difference between science and art, is usually one is a one-off hard to duplicate if even a possibility, and the other can be be done at will over and over again.

MAXX

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17459
  • MAGA
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2008, 03:36:00 PM »
Quote
Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand

 :)

figgs

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3925
  • from realization to infinity
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2008, 03:40:07 PM »
Good thinking, but how about a deeper question that's tougher to tackle. Why is there a universe at all? Scientists have a great deal of knowledge about how the planet is able to sustain life in the harsh territory of space, but why such a harmony between the energies of forces and elements? What's the point of a seemingly infinite ocean of spiraling galaxies that stretch beyond the reaches of our most powerful telescopes?

:)

I'm not talking about religion here, but how can those occurrences that we cannot understand become understood? And who understands them?
~

lovemonkey

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7750
  • Two kinds of people; Those that can extrapolate
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2008, 04:24:15 PM »
Good thinking, but how about a deeper question that's tougher to tackle. Why is there a universe at all? Scientists have a great deal of knowledge about how the planet is able to sustain life in the harsh territory of space, but why such a harmony between the energies of forces and elements? What's the point of a seemingly infinite ocean of spiraling galaxies that stretch beyond the reaches of our most powerful telescopes?

I'm not talking about religion here, but how can those occurrences that we cannot understand become understood? And who understands them?

Could it just be that something should have a "point" or purpose is merely a human thing and doesn't fit the criteria to describe the universe?
from incomplete data

figgs

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3925
  • from realization to infinity
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2008, 04:35:29 PM »
That's exactly it! There might not be a purpose at all for the lack of there even needing a purpose. It just is. The Great Is-ness. When I think about the why, I'm brought right into a feeling of gratitude for the fact that we do we an It.
~

I ETA PI

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 725
  • TAPPA KEGGA BREW!
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2008, 04:50:22 AM »
They can't explain droplets of urine from a floating sea-beast in the sky which forms into dragons here on earth.


There's plenty of made up shit that science can't explain.

Nordic Superman

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6670
  • Hesitation doesn't come easily in this blood...
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2008, 05:44:24 AM »
Totally inaccurate opinion of scientific method and process.
الاسلام هو شيطانية

figgs

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3925
  • from realization to infinity
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2008, 08:52:36 AM »
This post is not attacking science, this page is attacking materialist science which is serving as the New Inquisition against anything that doesn't support their fundamentalist materialist belief system. We are aiming to join mysticism and science again as they are one and the same.

LOL @ how 'reasonable' science began by an angel in a dream. Thank you Descartes!



Robert Anton Wilson about the The New Inquisition: Our dogmatic materialist mainstream scientific community.
DAB: One of your recent books is The New Inquisition: Irrational Rationalism and the Citadel of Science. Maybe you could tell us a little bit about this book.
RAW: I coined the term irrational rationalism because those people claim to be rationalists, but they're governed by such a heavy body of taboos. They're so fearful, and so hostile, and so narrow, and frightened, and uptight and dogmatic. I thought it was a fascinating paradox: irrational rationalists. Later on I found out I didn't invent that. Somebody else who wrote an article on CSICOP, that's the group they all belong to: Committee for Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal. Somebody else who wrote about them also used the term irrational rationalism. It's a hard term to resist when you think about those people.
I wrote this book because I got tired satirizing fundamentalist Christianity, I had done enough of that in my other books. I decided to satirize fundamentalist materialism for a change, because the two are equally comical. All fundamentalism is comical, unless you believe in it, in which case you'd become a fanatic yourself, and want everybody else to share your fundamentalism. But if you're not a fundamentalist yourself, fundamentalists are the funniest people on the planet. The materialist fundamentalists are funnier than the Christian fundamentalists, because they think they're rational!
DAB: They call themselves skeptical.
RAW: Yes, but they're not skeptical! They're never skeptical about anything except the things they have a prejudice against. None of them ever says anything skeptical about the AMA, or about anything in establishment science or any entrenched dogma. They're only skeptical about new ideas that frighten them. They're actually dogmatically committed to what they were taught when they were in college, which was about 1948-53, somewhere in that period. If you go back and study what was being taught in college in those days as the latest scientific theories, you find out that's what these people still believe. They haven't had a new idea in 30 years, that's all that happened to them. They just rigidified, they crystallized around 1960.
(Taken from a 1988 Interview)
a: "It's nonsense," b: "It is not important," c: "I always said it was a good idea," and d: "I thought of it first." Arthur C. Clarke explains the four stages in the way scientists react to the development of anything of a revolutionary nature.

Robert Anton Wilson on Science and Mysticism
"In (Gordiano) Bruno's day the 3 terms were divided up differently, you had science and mysticism on one side, and religion on the other side. Science and mysticism are alike in their struggle against religion. They were both based on experience and respect for the individual. The idea of science and mysticism was go out and discover for yourself. Find out what works, find out how the universe is actually structured and how you relate to the structure of the universe. And so there were basically 2 areas of scientific exploration, the external and the internal. But they were both pursued by the same method, the experimental method."



"Science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence!
letting the reigns go to the unfolding is faith, faith, faith, faith!
SCIENCE HAS FAILED OUR WORLD!
SCIENCE HAS FAILED OUR MOTHER EARTH!
SPIRIT GOES THROUGH ALL THINGS!"
System of a Down
~

Nordic Superman

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6670
  • Hesitation doesn't come easily in this blood...
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2008, 09:02:10 AM »
Well actually you are attacking science for what it is.

Sounds to me you're asking science to be something it's not.

Wow, lyrics from a System of a down track, I'm convinced ::)
الاسلام هو شيطانية

Necrosis

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9905
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2008, 05:48:47 PM »
Scientists are interested only in facts. They only try to figure out things on the physical level without actually figuring out why they happen, but how they happen. They don't know or recognize any particular reason for these happenings except that they occur as the effects of causes that are set in motion in our daily existence. The true and complete materialist does not believe that we existed in any time except now, nor does he believe in immortality. Therefore, he contradicts himself with the logic that, if there was any time in the history of the universe where there was nothing in and of the universe (pre-bang), there could never have been a creative intent from whence the universe came into being. Therefore, we must assume that there is an eternal presence within our existence.

There is no end.

There is no beginning.

There IS only change.

Law of Conservation: energy can never be created or destroyed, but manifests  in infinite forms and possibilities.

So how can we define God in a manner for a basis of agreement? This is the simplest description I can conceive of:

God = universe (or multiverse)
Everything in and of the universe = God (there is no separation)
People = the universe (God) consciously experiencing itself
Death = the point in which you remember what you were all along: God (all is one, all is God)

And so goes with the greatest mystery of all the ages...

Discuss

there was no pre bang as time came into existence.

"Law of Conservation: energy can never be created or destroyed, but manifests  in infinite forms and possibilities."

sure that means matter is eternal, hence god is not needed. There goes your argument. You have decided to call the universe god, it is not a benevolent one, it is just nature, and is meaningless.

Decker

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5780
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2008, 07:11:36 AM »
Could it just be that something should have a "point" or purpose is merely a human thing and doesn't fit the criteria to describe the universe?
That's a good point.  Just b/c we think in terms of subject/predicate, that doesn't mean existence is predicated on that viewpoint.

wavelength

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 10156
  • ~~~
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2008, 04:07:43 PM »
Scientists are interested only in facts.

Actually, scientists are not really interested in facts. They are interested in mathematical models of facts. The factual world itself is unreachable for a scientist.

They only try to figure out things on the physical level without actually figuring out why they happen, but how they happen. They don't know or recognize any particular reason for these happenings except that they occur as the effects of causes that are set in motion in our daily existence.

This "how" vs. "why" thing is just an invention of pseudo-philosophic scientists. Scientists neither explain how nor why anything happens. They just formulate mathematical models to predict certain scientific aspects of the world. The "how" of a scientist is nothing else than a mathematical formula behind another mathematical formula. You will never find a real "how" in any scientific theory.

The true and complete materialist does not believe that we existed in any time except now, nor does he believe in immortality. Therefore, he contradicts himself with the logic that, if there was any time in the history of the universe where there was nothing in and of the universe (pre-bang), there could never have been a creative intent from whence the universe came into being. Therefore, we must assume that there is an eternal presence within our existence.


You lost me there. Why does a materialist not believe that we existed in any time except now? A materialist can say nothing about immortality, but he will generally not believe in any life beyond the physical form. The second statement I think you must elaborate on.

There is no end.

There is no beginning.

There IS only change.

Law of Conservation: energy can never be created or destroyed, but manifests  in infinite forms and possibilities.

I think you should decide here whether you talk in scientific or philosophic terms.

So how can we define God in a manner for a basis of agreement? This is the simplest description I can conceive of:

God = universe (or multiverse)
Everything in and of the universe = God (there is no separation)
People = the universe (God) consciously experiencing itself
Death = the point in which you remember what you were all along: God (all is one, all is God)

And so goes with the greatest mystery of all the ages...

Discuss

There is an invinite number of ways to define God. But words can always only be pointers to the divine, never capture it directly.

Deicide

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22921
  • Reapers...
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2008, 04:43:28 PM »
Actually, scientists are not really interested in facts. They are interested in mathematical models of facts. The factual world itself is unreachable for a scientist.

This "how" vs. "why" thing is just an invention of pseudo-philosophic scientists. Scientists neither explain how nor why anything happens. They just formulate mathematical models to predict certain scientific aspects of the world. The "how" of a scientist is nothing else than a mathematical formula behind another mathematical formula. You will never find a real "how" in any scientific theory.
 

You lost me there. Why does a materialist not believe that we existed in any time except now? A materialist can say nothing about immortality, but he will generally not believe in any life beyond the physical form. The second statement I think you must elaborate on.

I think you should decide here whether you talk in scientific or philosophic terms.

There is an invinite number of ways to define God. But words can always only be pointers to the divine, never capture it directly.

Warum glaubst Du denn an das Phantom des Christentums? Was hat Dich von dessen Wahrheit ueberzeugt, Wiener?
I hate the State.

Butterbean

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19324
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2008, 07:16:38 AM »
Warum glaubst Du denn an das Phantom des Christentums? Was hat Dich von dessen Wahrheit ueberzeugt, Wiener?
???
"What about Santa's warm globs?  _____________ wiener?"


Weird stuff!
Should I move this to the Sex board?
R

Deicide

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22921
  • Reapers...
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2008, 07:25:16 AM »
???
"What about Santa's warm globs?  _____________ wiener?"


Weird stuff!
Should I move this to the Sex board?

A Wiener is a resident of Vienna....that is all.
I hate the State.

Butterbean

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19324
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2008, 07:37:44 AM »
A Wiener is a resident of Vienna....that is all.
OK ... I was just joking around!


Deicide....I order you to watch a stupid, mindless funny movie this weekend like Happy Gilmore or Billy Madison.  What do you say? :)
R

Deicide

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22921
  • Reapers...
Re: Why can't science explain God?
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2008, 07:45:33 AM »
OK ... I was just joking around!


Deicide....I order you to watch a stupid, mindless funny movie this weekend like Happy Gilmore or Billy Madison.  What do you say? :)

No time, too busy getting sleeping pills and battling my boss for the money he stole from me, never mind a whole bunch of other stuff...
I hate the State.