Was the O.T. God forgiving and merciful?

[Butterbean]

2 Chronicles 33:1-16

Manasseh King of Judah

Manasseh was twelve years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem fifty-five years.  He did evil in the eyes of the LORD, following the detestable practices of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.  He rebuilt the high places his father Hezekiah had demolished; he also erected altars to the Baals and made Asherah poles. He bowed down to all the starry hosts and worshiped them.  He built altars in the temple of the LORD, of which the LORD had said, "My Name will remain in Jerusalem forever."  In both courts of the temple of the LORD, he built altars to all the starry hosts.  He sacrificed his sons in the fire in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, practiced sorcery, divination and witchcraft, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the LORD, provoking him to anger.

He took the carved image he had made and put it in God's temple, of which God had said to David and to his son Solomon, "In this temple and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, I will put my Name forever.  I will not again make the feet of the Israelites leave the land I assigned to your forefathers, if only they will be careful to do everything I commanded them concerning all the laws, decrees and ordinances given through Moses."  But Manasseh led Judah and the people of Jerusalem astray, so that they did more evil than the nations the LORD had destroyed before the Israelites.

The LORD spoke to Manasseh and his people, but they paid no attention.  So the LORD brought against them the army commanders of the king of Assyria, who took Manasseh prisoner, put a hook in his nose, bound him with bronze shackles and took him to Babylon.  In his distress he sought the favor of the LORD his God and humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers.  And when he prayed to him, the LORD was moved by his entreaty and listened to his plea; so he brought him back to Jerusalem and to his kingdom. Then Manasseh knew that the LORD is God.

[Butterbean]

Jonah 3:4-10

On the first day, Jonah started into the city. He proclaimed: "Forty more days and Nineveh will be overturned."  The Ninevites believed God. They declared a fast, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth.

When the news reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust.  Then he issued a proclamation in Nineveh:
      "By the decree of the king and his nobles:
       Do not let any man or beast, herd or flock, taste anything; do not let them eat or drink.  But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence.  Who knows? God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish."

When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened.

[columbusdude82]

That is the essence of slavery... God is merciful for not killing people.. "Thank you for not killing me masssa"

[loco]

That is the essence of slavery... God is merciful for not killing people.. "Thank you for not killing me masssa"

Define mercy then.

[OzmO]

yes, he is merciful and forgiving in the OT. 

[MCWAY]

Don't forget David and Solomon. Solomon slipped into idolatry and worshipped other gods, despite the Lord's instructions. God could have stripped him of the throne. However, for David's sake, He allowed Solomon to remain king. However, Solomon's son, Rehoboam, would lose the throne of Israel (except for one tribe).

Define mercy then.

I'd define it as a reduction in punishment.

Some people have the "God can do no right" mentality. If people commit sin and God seemingly does nothing, you get the old snide remark, "Where is (your) God now?"

Yet, when the Lord has had enough and renders judgment on people, all of a sudden, He's mean, cruel, and heartless.

Non-believers have said that about the Exodus account, specifically the slaying of Egypt's firstborn. Often, they forget that Pharoah had nine chances to release Israel, before the tenth (and most devastating) plague hit.

[loco]

I'd define it as a reduction in punishment.

Some people have the "God can do no right" mentality. If people commit sin and God seemingly does nothing, you get the old snide remark, "Where is (your) God now?"

Yet, when the Lord has had enough and renders judgment on people, all of a sudden, He's mean, cruel, and heartless.

And when God has mercy on the one who deserves just punishment, then "that is the essence of slavery".   You can't win with skeptics.

Non-believers have said that about the Exodus account, specifically the slaying of Egypt's firstborn. Often, they forget that Pharoah had nine chances to release Israel, before the tenth (and most devastating) plague hit.

And they forget that Pharaoh and his father before him ordered the killing of, not just the first born, but all male babies of Israel.

[MCWAY]

And when God has mercy on the one who deserves just punishment, then "that is the essence of slavery".   You can't win with skeptics.

Perhaps, we should call it the "Jonah" complex. 

And they forget that Pharaoh and his father before him ordered the killing of, not just the first born, but all male babies of Israel.

Haven't you heard? The Egyptians, Amalekites, etc. were just relaxing, sipping cocoa and singing "Kum-bay-Yah", when mean ol' Jehovah and crew just whacked them unprovoked and unwarranted.

[loco]

Perhaps, we should call it the "Jonah" complex. 


Haven't you heard? The Egyptians, Amalekites, etc. were just relaxing, sipping cocoa and singing "Kum-bay-Yah", when mean ol' Jehovah and crew just whacked them unprovoked and unwarranted.

 

[Deicide]

Perhaps, we should call it the "Jonah" complex. 


Haven't you heard? The Egyptians, Amalekites, etc. were just relaxing, sipping cocoa and singing "Kum-bay-Yah", when mean ol' Jehovah and crew just whacked them unprovoked and unwarranted.

Apparently, much like Superman has a weakness to Kryptonite, Yahweh the raging one has a weakness to Iron:

And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron. — Judges 1:19  

[Butterbean]

Haven't you heard? The Egyptians, Amalekites, etc. were just relaxing, sipping cocoa and singing "Kum-bay-Yah", when mean ol' Jehovah and crew just whacked them unprovoked and unwarranted.

I was reading something recently that stated that the Amalekites would heat up an idol of their "god" Molech until it was glowing hot and place it on a baby until it burned to death.  Not sure what the source was, or if it was accurate.  Have you (or loco) heard anything like this?

[Deicide]

Yahweh the Angry: just one of many gods of the time...

http://www.bibleorigins.net/YahwehYawUgarit.html

[loco]

Yahweh the Angry: just one of many gods of the time...

http://www.bibleorigins.net/YahwehYawUgarit.html

Of the time?  At what point in time did these gods cease to be angry, 100 BC, 200 AD?

[MCWAY]

Apparently, much like Superman has a weakness to Kryptonite, Yahweh the raging one has a weakness to Iron:

And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron. — Judges 1:19  

Hardly. Ask that dude, named Sisera, from Judges 4, how much the possession of iron chariots helped him against God's judgment.

Verses 13-16:

And Sisera gathered together all his chariots, even nine hundred chariots of iron, and all the people that were with him, from Harosheth of the Gentiles unto the river of Kishon. And Deborah said unto Barak, Up; for this is the day in which the LORD hath delivered Sisera into thine hand: is not the LORD gone out before thee? So Barak went down from mount Tabor, and ten thousand men after him.

And the LORD discomfited Sisera, and all his chariots, and all his host, with the edge of the sword before Barak; so that Sisera lighted down off his chariot, and fled away on his feet. But Barak pursued after the chariots, and after the host, unto Harosheth of the Gentiles: and all the host of Sisera fell upon the edge of the sword; and there was not a man left.


As far as Judges 1 is concerned, simply put, the people of Judah were intimidated because of the iron chariots of their enemies, even though they were told that they could overcome them. That's not unlike the spies who checked out Caanan, most of them trembled in fear, referring to themselves as grasshoppers.

We see something similar in Joshua 17. The children of Joseph are scared of the Canaanites, because of those chariots, even though Joshua tells them that they will beat Canaan.

But, as shown in Judges 4, once the people heeded God's instructions, as given by the judge/prophetess Deborah, Sisera and all NINE HUNDRED iron chariots were no match for the Israelites.