Author Topic: toomuch EFA??  (Read 5722 times)

mopar_freak

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toomuch EFA??
« on: April 20, 2008, 09:09:34 AM »
im 6'4 265lbs 15% im on a high protine low carb diet. right now im taking

CLA 1000mg X3 a day
flaxseed oil 2000mg X3 a day
Alasken fish oil 1000mg X3 a day
omega 3,6,9, blend X3 a day

im i taking too much or not enough?
mish1234
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Van_Bilderass

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2008, 10:11:36 AM »
What do you want to achieve with it?

Take enough to get about 3 grams total of EPA/DHA is my suggestion for general health support, etc. Which is approximately where you're at, depending on what kind of oil it is.

candidizzle

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2008, 10:59:41 AM »
im 6'4 265lbs 15% im on a high protine low carb diet. right now im taking

CLA 1000mg X3 a dayuse what you have, then drop this...its not worth it, unless your getting it for free, or are fucking rich


flaxseed oil 2000mg X3 a day
Alasken fish oil 1000mg X3 a day
omega 3,6,9, blend X3 a dayaall of these are omega 3.  drop the flaxseed, and drop the omega 369 blend.

the best protcoal for essential fats is fish oil+evening primrose oil.   in a ratio of 2=1. (2fish oil to 1evening primrose oil)   aand take as MANY AS YOU CAN in this ratio. there is no "too much" of this efa ..   they only further boost bmr and further enhance insulin sensitivty and further increase nutrient partitioning and further enhance fat burning and furtheer enhance anabolism and further enhance protein sparing....


 :)

im i taking too much or not enough?


Van_Bilderass

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2008, 11:25:11 AM »
there is no "too much" of this efa ..
There are a bunch of potential issues with megadosing fish oil. Disturbed inflammatory response for example. Psychological problems, heart palpitations, and etc.

candidizzle

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2008, 11:30:00 AM »
the anti inflammatory omega 3 is countered by the pro infamatory omega 6.

 :)

no other negative effects though

omega 3 IMPROVE brain function, heart health, ect

key is 2=1 ratio though

 :)

Van_Bilderass

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2008, 01:15:06 PM »
the anti inflammatory omega 3 is countered by the pro infamatory omega 6.

 :)

no other negative effects though

omega 3 IMPROVE brain function, heart health, ect

key is 2=1 ratio though

 :)
Anything can be bad in excess. I believe I have seen data where adding fish oil to a diet increased cholesterol (increase in LDL). So yes there is such a thing as too much fish oil as you would get fat if you are ingesting too many calories, especially if you keep the ratio you mention. EFA's aren't magical, they can make you fat, as any fat will do if consumed to excess.

There is data that shows DHA improves certain psychological disorders while EPA worsens them. Both are Omega 3's as you know, and fish oil contains both.

Fish oil can increase blood sugar in diabetics.

candidizzle

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2008, 01:21:22 PM »
normally you are very solid, va..

bu i think your off on this


omega 3, fish oil, cannot make you fat...  when you ingest them, and they enter the blood stream, fat metabolism is elevated more than enough to take care of the fish oil consumed+ more..   also, increase in blood sugar in diabetics? well, fish oil does inceease insulin sensitivity, but that should have an OPPOSITE effect on blood sugar. so im not sure why that would happen, and doubt that it would happen at all.

the ratio i propose is too balance omega 3 and omega 6, this is best ratio because they compete for abosrbtion

omega 6 also elevate bmr and boost fat metabolism, but not to the great extent that omega 3 do

(fish oil is best omega 3 only for health reasons(dha epa),, no diffference in omega 3 from flax or omega 3 from salmon or anywhere else..omega 3 omega 3 plain and simple


Necrosis

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2008, 01:34:54 PM »
normally you are very solid, va..

bu i think your off on this


omega 3, fish oil, cannot make you fat...  when you ingest them, and they enter the blood stream, fat metabolism is elevated more than enough to take care of the fish oil consumed+ more..   also, increase in blood sugar in diabetics? well, fish oil does inceease insulin sensitivity, but that should have an OPPOSITE effect on blood sugar. so im not sure why that would happen, and doubt that it would happen at all.

the ratio i propose is too balance omega 3 and omega 6, this is best ratio because they compete for abosrbtion

omega 6 also elevate bmr and boost fat metabolism, but not to the great extent that omega 3 do

(fish oil is best omega 3 only for health reasons(dha epa),, no diffference in omega 3 from flax or omega 3 from salmon or anywhere else..omega 3 omega 3 plain and simple



i told you id leave you alone but your wrong on all account on this one. Omega three from fish is different from flax.

DHA EPA in fish

ALA in flax

then you have DPA, ESA, steradonic acid, nisinic acid with differing carbons.

also high doses of fish oil or omega three have many detrimental effects, like immunosuppression.


candidizzle

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2008, 01:39:25 PM »
yeah thtats why i put
' epa dha'
in my post 

but omega is omega
no difference there

its like saying isoleucine is different than valine...yes, different, but both bcaa

get it?

 :)


i stick by my guns and say only good things can come from efa in proper ratios

Van_Bilderass

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2008, 03:42:39 PM »
normally you are very solid, va..

bu i think your off on this


omega 3, fish oil, cannot make you fat...  when you ingest them, and they enter the blood stream, fat metabolism is elevated more than enough to take care of the fish oil consumed+ more..   also, increase in blood sugar in diabetics? well, fish oil does inceease insulin sensitivity, but that should have an OPPOSITE effect on blood sugar. so im not sure why that would happen, and doubt that it would happen at all.

the ratio i propose is too balance omega 3 and omega 6, this is best ratio because they compete for abosrbtion

omega 6 also elevate bmr and boost fat metabolism, but not to the great extent that omega 3 do

(fish oil is best omega 3 only for health reasons(dha epa),, no diffference in omega 3 from flax or omega 3 from salmon or anywhere else..omega 3 omega 3 plain and simple


Take a look at this article and tell me what you think.
http://www.alanaragon.com/fish-oil.html

Here's the conclusion of the article:
Quote
Looking at the body of evidence as a whole, fish oil (or increased fish consumption) has great potential for improving cardiovascular health. But for reducing body fat, the effects are minor to nonexistent. Let’s not forget that fish oil isn’t some magical negative-calorie food. It still contains 9 calories per gram, and no matter how much of those calories are used in its processing within the body, it’s still a net gain in calories after consumption. To sum everything up, fish oil has health benefits, as well as potential risks. It’s certainly not a matter of more-is-better. It might have minor fat loss effects in the obese and overweight population, but their fat loss effect in general is far from conclusively established. Get a variety of fats in your diet, and get them from whole foods whenever possible. Fish oil is merely one of many agents that can contribute to optimal health within the context of well-balanced nutrition. Keep it in perspective, and keep your eye on the facts. 




mopar_freak

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2008, 03:44:35 PM »
soooooooooooooooooo  my fat intake is ok?
mish1234
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Necrosis

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2008, 05:04:27 PM »
yeah thtats why i put
' epa dha'
in my post 

but omega is omega
no difference there

its like saying isoleucine is different than valine...yes, different, but both bcaa

get it?

 :)


i stick by my guns and say only good things can come from efa in proper ratios

i do get it but i dont get what point your making, the omega 3 from fish is different from flax and have different effects, they are not the same.

candidizzle

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2008, 05:13:07 PM »
Take a look at this article and tell me what you think.
http://www.alanaragon.com/fish-oil.html

Here's the conclusion of the article:



to behonest, i think its horseshit and they dont know what they are talking about

i trust udo erasmus when it comes to fats

yes, smokepole, but those benefits are of health related, not bb'ing, at least to the extent of my knowledge thats where the differences lie...as far as i know there is no difference between ala and epa/dha as far as effects on physique

Necrosis

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2008, 06:25:38 PM »
to behonest, i think its horseshit and they dont know what they are talking about

i trust udo erasmus when it comes to fats

yes, smokepole, but those benefits are of health related, not bb'ing, at least to the extent of my knowledge thats where the differences lie...as far as i know there is no difference between ala and epa/dha as far as effects on physique

there are

candidizzle

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2008, 07:08:51 PM »

Van_Bilderass

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2008, 07:49:04 PM »
to behonest, i think its horseshit and they dont know what they are talking about

i trust udo erasmus when it comes to fats


I'm not very familiar with Udo Erasmus. Does he says that the more fish oil you consume the better? That fish oil can't convert to body fat?

candidizzle

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2008, 07:55:28 PM »
I'm not very familiar with Udo Erasmus. Does he says that the more fish oil you consume the better? That fish oil can't convert to body fat?
no in fact udo prefers using cold pressed flax seed for his omega 3's

but yes he does say that theres no such thing as too much efa's

Van_Bilderass

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2008, 08:15:35 PM »
no in fact udo prefers using cold pressed flax seed for his omega 3's

but yes he does say that theres no such thing as too much efa's
Okay. Some of the potential problems are lessened if mega dosing EFA's from Flax instead of Fish, but still, saying there's no such thing as too much EFA's sounds crazy to me. It's like saying there's no such thing as too much protein or too many vitamins.

candidizzle

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2008, 08:42:37 PM »
well theres no such thing as too much water soluble vitamins  :) and while you can end up with some fat storeage a a result of protein... its is very unlikely, AND it will almost never be a NET gain in fat because of the intense thermic effect of protein.  :)


i do agree, moderation is best.

but its not likely this is somebody saying that  you can eat all the cake you wan to. there is simply no joy or benefit of taking capsules..   so its not a rationalization in any way like somebody who just wants to be able to eat what they want without getting fat

Markoni

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2008, 10:54:49 PM »
Plourde M, Cunnane SC. Extremely limited synthesis of long chain polyunsaturates in adults: implications for their dietary essentiality and use as supplements.  Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2007 Aug;32(4):619-34.

There is considerable interest in the potential impact of several polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) in mitigating the significant morbidity and mortality caused by degenerative diseases of the cardiovascular system and brain. Despite this interest, confusion surrounds the extent of conversion in humans of the parent PUFA, linoleic acid or alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), to their respective long-chain PUFA products. As a result, there is uncertainty about the potential benefits of ALA versus eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) or docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). Some of the confusion arises because although mammals have the necessary enzymes to make the long-chain PUFA from the parent PUFA, in vivo studies in humans show that asymptotically equal to 5% of ALA is converted to EPA and <0.5% of ALA is converted to DHA. Because the capacity of this pathway is very low in healthy, nonvegetarian humans, even large amounts of dietary ALA have a negligible effect on plasma DHA, an effect paralleled in the omega6 PUFA by a negligible effect of dietary linoleic acid on plasma arachidonic acid. Despite this inefficient conversion, there are potential roles in human health for ALA and EPA that could be independent of their metabolism to DHA through the desaturation - chain elongation pathway.

Necrosis

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2008, 02:14:22 PM »
well theres no such thing as too much water soluble vitamins  :)

this is wrong as well, many water soluble vitamins have consequences that can be quite devastating.

you should do some reading on there metabolism. B6 causes nerve damage for example, vitamin c can be deadly for people with iron storage disease, your being to simplified in your approach.

To much fish oil has many consequences, and possible risks. Moderation is key with all things and all nutrients can be taken in excess.

Princess L

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2008, 09:02:28 PM »
Read this again folks.


Plourde M, Cunnane SC. Extremely limited synthesis of long chain polyunsaturates in adults: implications for their dietary essentiality and use as supplements.  Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2007 Aug;32(4):619-34.

There is considerable interest in the potential impact of several polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) in mitigating the significant morbidity and mortality caused by degenerative diseases of the cardiovascular system and brain. Despite this interest, confusion surrounds the extent of conversion in humans of the parent PUFA, linoleic acid or alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), to their respective long-chain PUFA products. As a result, there is uncertainty about the potential benefits of ALA versus eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) or docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). Some of the confusion arises because although mammals have the necessary enzymes to make the long-chain PUFA from the parent PUFA, in vivo studies in humans show that asymptotically equal to 5% of ALA is converted to EPA and <0.5% of ALA is converted to DHA. Because the capacity of this pathway is very low in healthy, nonvegetarian humans, even large amounts of dietary ALA have a negligible effect on plasma DHA, an effect paralleled in the omega6 PUFA by a negligible effect of dietary linoleic acid on plasma arachidonic acid. Despite this inefficient conversion, there are potential roles in human health for ALA and EPA that could be independent of their metabolism to DHA through the desaturation - chain elongation pathway.



As I've said many times before... FISH OIL, not that Udo crap.
:

candidizzle

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2008, 11:30:40 PM »
in general, "theres no such thing as too many water soluble vitamins" is correct though.   oyes, there are exceptions to every rule.  but in general..




princess, the body converts ala into epa and dha and the rate it NEEDS to convert it..and besides, there are studies out there that show more health benefits in certain areas from ala than youll get from dha and epa..IN CERTAIN AREAS


AND fish oil suupp. is only omega 3.   what about omega 6 ?? evening primrose oil .  maybe not totally vital, but a VERY VERY good thing to include in your supplementation

Markoni

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2008, 03:06:33 AM »
Exp Biol Med (Maywood). 2008 Apr 11 [Epub ahead of print]
Related Articles, Links

The Importance of the Omega-6/Omega-3 Fatty Acid Ratio in Cardiovascular Disease and Other Chronic Diseases.

Simopoulos AP.

The Center for Genetics, Nutrition and Health.

Abstract Several sources of information suggest that human beings evolved on a diet with a ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 essential fatty acids (EFA) of ~1 whereas in Western diets the ratio is 15/1 - 16.7/1. Western diets are deficient in omega-3 fatty acids, and have excessive amounts of omega-6 fatty acids compared with the diet on which human beings evolved and their genetic patterns were established. Excessive amounts of omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) and a very high omega-6/omega-3 ratio, as is found in today's Western diets, promote the pathogenesis of many diseases, including cardiovascular disease, cancer, and inflammatory and autoimmune diseases, whereas increased levels of omega-3 PUFA (a lower omega-6/omega-3 ratio), exert suppressive effects. In the secondary prevention of cardiovascular disease, a ratio of 4/1 was associated with a 70% decrease in total mortality. A ratio of 2.5/1 reduced rectal cell proliferation in patients with colorectal cancer, whereas a ratio of 4/1 with the same amount of omega-3 PUFA had no effect. The lower omega-6/omega-3 ratio in women with breast cancer was associated with decreased risk. A ratio of 2-3/1 suppressed inflammation in patients with rheumatoid arthritis, and a ratio of 5/1 had a beneficial effect on patients with asthma, whereas a ratio of 10/1 had adverse consequences. These studies indicate that the optimal ratio may vary with the disease under consideration. This is consistent with the fact that chronic diseases are multigenic and multifactorial. Therefore, it is quite possible that the therapeutic dose of omega-3 fatty acids will depend on the degree of severity of disease resulting from the genetic predisposition. A lower ratio of omega-6/omega-3 fatty acids is more desirable in reducing the risk of many of the chronic diseases of high prevalence in Western societies, as well as in the developing countries.

Necrosis

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Re: toomuch EFA??
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2008, 06:31:29 AM »
Exp Biol Med (Maywood). 2008 Apr 11 [Epub ahead of print]
Related Articles, Links

The Importance of the Omega-6/Omega-3 Fatty Acid Ratio in Cardiovascular Disease and Other Chronic Diseases.

Simopoulos AP.

The Center for Genetics, Nutrition and Health.

Abstract Several sources of information suggest that human beings evolved on a diet with a ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 essential fatty acids (EFA) of ~1 whereas in Western diets the ratio is 15/1 - 16.7/1. Western diets are deficient in omega-3 fatty acids, and have excessive amounts of omega-6 fatty acids compared with the diet on which human beings evolved and their genetic patterns were established. Excessive amounts of omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) and a very high omega-6/omega-3 ratio, as is found in today's Western diets, promote the pathogenesis of many diseases, including cardiovascular disease, cancer, and inflammatory and autoimmune diseases, whereas increased levels of omega-3 PUFA (a lower omega-6/omega-3 ratio), exert suppressive effects. In the secondary prevention of cardiovascular disease, a ratio of 4/1 was associated with a 70% decrease in total mortality. A ratio of 2.5/1 reduced rectal cell proliferation in patients with colorectal cancer, whereas a ratio of 4/1 with the same amount of omega-3 PUFA had no effect. The lower omega-6/omega-3 ratio in women with breast cancer was associated with decreased risk. A ratio of 2-3/1 suppressed inflammation in patients with rheumatoid arthritis, and a ratio of 5/1 had a beneficial effect on patients with asthma, whereas a ratio of 10/1 had adverse consequences. These studies indicate that the optimal ratio may vary with the disease under consideration. This is consistent with the fact that chronic diseases are multigenic and multifactorial. Therefore, it is quite possible that the therapeutic dose of omega-3 fatty acids will depend on the degree of severity of disease resulting from the genetic predisposition. A lower ratio of omega-6/omega-3 fatty acids is more desirable in reducing the risk of many of the chronic diseases of high prevalence in Western societies, as well as in the developing countries.

the omega 6 in primrose oil is GLA which is anti-inflammatory and has many positive benefits by antagonizing leukotrienes.

candidate. there is such a thing as to many b vitamins, if you mega dose them you will have problems.

however, slightly elevated levels are fine, and i do megadose vitamin c as i feel the benefits outweigh the risks.