How does Insulin work for cutting???

[Vet]

unlike you, as we have all seen who thinks he's knows everything, what i speak of comes from experience, not what i think i know.

i am here to help offer real world experience and application of ketogenic dieting, unlike you who relies on spewing $2 words he read in his college school texts in an effort to look like he has an idea of what he is talking about, eventhough he has little experience. - tell us all again how icn galenkias are fake and any effects related to them are placebo, idiot.

i have forgotten more about ketogenic dieting, hormones, insulin usage and contest prep than you will ever know, sunshine. any time you wish to talk real world application step up- i won't be hard to find.

in the mean time, i suggest you run a ketogenic diet for yourself- and not just regurgitate what you read online and then come back and answer the question i posed to mega man.

until then, kindly fuck off.

thanks for coming out.

So you are speaking so far out of your ass you don't even know what you are posting? 













oh, and fuck you too. 

[no one]

So you are speaking so far out of your ass you don't even know what you are posting? 
oh, and fuck you too. 

go to the natural training board, sweetheart.

men are talking here.

[Vet]

No one, do you really want me to rip the shit you've posted apart line by line?  I can if you want me too.   The thing is anyone who really knows shit about basic physiology recognized you have no clue by your second post.   What is hysterical is you keep it going and now you are getting defensive.  

[Vet]

go to the natural training board, sweetheart.

men are talking here.

That was lame dude.  Lets keep this professional and scientific.   You are wrong with what you are posting.   Its that simple.   

[no one]

No one, do you really want me to rip the shit you've posted apart line by line?  I can if you want me too.   The thing is anyone who really knows shit about basic physiology recognized you have no clue by your second post.   What is hysterical is you keep it going and now you are getting defensive. 

the truth is anyone who knows anything will recognise from any post i have written in this forum that this isn't my first barbq, unlike yourself. i have spoken of things that would be way over many people's heads in an effort to help some who could use and apply at that level what i have given my experience on.

i think you tend to believe that if you use words big enough you'll be able to fool people into looking like you know what you are talking about. truth is, thats all they are, big words backed by zero experience.

sadly, the only people you will fool are the kids who are in the midst of their first cycles, and those who are thinking of trying hormones for the first time. congratulations on that.

like i said, let me know when you get some real world experience in the matters being discussed and then you can try to sound like you know what you are talking about.

until then, go open your book, princess, and tell us all how the body is supposed to function.

[candidizzle]

mega man, just uz your not in ketosis, doesnt mean your ot burning fat, dude. even if it DOES take you a full three days each and every week to get into ketosis, as long as your sticking to the diet; youll be losing fat every weekday, not just the ones where you reach keto.

and after a few weeks of being on a keto diet, your body will move into ketosis much faster than it did origianally. its termed as being "fat adapted"

[no one]

well, lookie here boys and girls..

another fine example of the text book wizard dispensing advise from his vast realm of experience no doubt...

Man, I read this board primarily because I find the posts entertaining.  Everyonce in a while there is one that is just asanine.  This is one of those.  Dude you need to stop and think a second about what the hell you are putting into your body...

DNP is essentially a cellular metabolic poison. It works by uncoupling oxidative phosphorylation within the mitochondria, leading to a rapid consumption of energy without generation of ATP.  DNP is essentially a proton ionophore, an agent that moves protons (hydrogen ions) across biological membranes.  By moving these protons, DNP removes the proton gradient across mitochondrial membranes, collapsing the proton motive force that the cells use to produce ATP.  ATP is the energy source of the cell. Instead of producing ATP, the energy of the proton gradient is lost as heat.  Cells attempt to counteract the lowered yields of ATP by oxidizing stored reserves.  This is where the "fat burning" effects of DNP come from.  The cells cannot utilize the proton gradient necessary to produce ATP, so they begin using fat as an energy source.  Typically the cells will burn carbohydrates first--ie stored glycogen, then fat.   Thats why you feel like crap when you take DNP, because you are seriously depleting your bodies stored energy reserves.  If you reach a stage where you are fat depleted, your body will turn to the only other available source of energy---muscle tissue.  DNP can literally melt muscle off your body along with fat.  Typically that happens right before death as a result of hyperthermia.  Remember, the major side effect uncoupling oxidative phosphorylation is the production of heat.  In essence, part of the energy that is normally produced from cellular respiration is wasted as heat.  This heat can lead to a fatal fever.  DNP can and will kill you.  Its that simple. 

i highlighted your first quote in bold to point out the irony of all this...

tell me, 'vet' is this based on personal experience with the compound, or something you read?

i could probably search thru your post history if i were so inclined and take example after example of you talking about things with which you have zero experience with.

keep up the good work.

[Vet]

the truth is anyone who knows anything will recognise from any post i have written in this forum that this isn't my first barbq, unlike yourself. i have spoken of things that would be way over many people's heads in an effort to help some who could use and apply at that level what i have given my experience on.

i think you tend to believe that if you use words big enough you'll be able to fool people into looking like you know what you are talking about. truth is, thats all they are, big words backed by zero experience.

sadly, the only people you will fool are the kids who are in the midst of their first cycles, and those who are thinking of trying hormones for the first time. congratulations on that.

like i said, let me know when you get some real world experience in the matters being discussed and then you can try to sound like you know what you are talking about.

until then, go open your book, princess, and tell us all how the body is supposed to function.

I post almost exactly the way I talk so I apologize if you can't understand me.  All you have to do is ask and I'll try to restate things in a way that makes sense for you.  


The way you are presenting the "real world" experience is bullshit as far as I'm concerned because its the one excuse that a person can present on a message board that you can hide behind without too much difficulty because of the simple fact we all post under a false name.   You know absolutely nothing about me other than what I've chosen to tell you, the same as I know nothing about you.  Thats fine by me.   My statement is you have posted information that doesn't make sense physiologically.  And you've failed to correct people when they followed up with what you were posting.   Its that simple.  Now, like I said, I've got time today.  If you want me to go post by post through this thread, I will.  And if you can prove me wrong, then by all means do so.  

[Vet]

well, lookie here boys and girls..

another fine example of the text book wizard dispensing advise from his vast realm of experience no doubt...


i highlighted your first quote in bold to pint out the irony of all this...

tell me, 'vet' is this based on personal experience with the compound, or something you read?

i could probably search thru your post history if i were so inclined and take example after example of you talking about things with which you have zero experience with.

keep up the good work.

Haha.  You're struggling buddy.   

How long did it take you to find something I've said again and again?    I read this board because I find the posts entertaining.   I can probably help you find the posts if you want to look for them. 


Now lets refocus and go back to Ketosis, you can devote a whole other thread at a different time to other posts I've made.   

[no one]

Haha.  You're struggling buddy.   

How long did it take you to find something I've said again and again?    I read this board because I find the posts entertaining.   I can probably help you find the posts if you want to look for them. 


Now lets refocus and go back to Ketosis, you can devote a whole other thread at a different time to other posts I've made.   

struggling?

seriously, answer the questions, then we'll go from there, ok?

i'll repeat them just for you as your attention span, for a guy who appears so intelligent, is a little lacking.

have you ever used a ketogenic diet?

have you ever used DNP?

[Vet]

No one, since you started this thread with Insulin, and suggesting the use of insulin, please list 5 to 8 physiologic effects of insulin administration at the cellular level.  Also please describe in detail insulins effects on fat metabolism.  

[Vet]

mega man, just uz your not in ketosis, doesnt mean your ot burning fat, dude. even if it DOES take you a full three days each and every week to get into ketosis, as long as your sticking to the diet; youll be losing fat every weekday, not just the ones where you reach keto.

and after a few weeks of being on a keto diet, your body will move into ketosis much faster than it did origianally. its termed as being "fat adapted"

This is true normal healthy individual can shed ketones in their morning urination because of fat metabolism overnight.  They are not "in ketosis" per strict definition, but they are still burning fat. 

[candidizzle]

yup, ketones are just a by product of accelerated fat metabolism

[Vet]

struggling?

seriously, answer the questions, then we'll go from there, ok?

i'll repeat them, just for you as your attention span, for a guy who appears so intelligent, is a little lacking.

have you ever used a ketogenic diet?

have you ever used DNP?

LOL.   You are still struggling and its getting worse.  How about you answer this question.  Whats your background in physiology and exercise kinesiology? or better yet, how much do you bench press?  


Just to play along.   Yes and no.  

[Vet]

yup, ketones are just a by product of accelerated fat metabolism

Its not really 'accelerated' as much as its just fat metabolism.   The thing is ketones are generally produced in such low numbers that they are not measurable in the urine.  If you are dieting hard and training hard, then you will have a larger volume of ketones per ml of urine produced.  Once you break the threshold of the test strips, you will have a measurable amount. To truely be in a ketotic state, you need to have a measurable amount virutally every time you urinate. 

[no one]

struggling?

seriously, answer the questions, then we'll go from there, ok?

i'll repeat them, just for you as your attention span, for a guy who appears so intelligent, is a little lacking.

have you ever used a ketogenic diet?

have you ever used DNP?

didn't think so.

see, i have. on both counts.

that's the difference between you and i-

i do. you read.

i wonder who's advise holds more weight- the person who talks, or the person who does.

so, sweetie, 'll leave it at this-

the next time someone wants to know the 8 physiologic effects of insulin administration at the cellular level, look in your purse for that text book and it's accompanying chapter and feel free to chime in.

the next time someone wants to know how to use compounds, and their effects in an applicable situation and real time/ real life applications, chime in anyway so i can have a good laugh.

[Mega Man]

and tell me why you'd lose muscle if you don't re-carb, please.

 

Let's see why that is so important!

In normal conditions the skeletal muscle glycogen concentration ranges from 1.5 grams to 2 grams per 100 grams of skeletal muscle tissue. A Swedish researcher BERGSTROM (1969) has shown that after a low carbohydrate diet that lasts for a period of 3 days accompanied with prolonged physical exercises/efforts one's skeletal muscle glycogen depots fall to a concentration of about 0.6 grams! After this limited 3 day period of carbohydrate depletion, a carbohydrate-rich diet was followed causing a new higher level of muscle glycogen content.

If the "depleting glycogen phase" has been done correctly, inducing a dramatic lowering of glycogen depots, it creates a "hunger state" for your muscles so that during the next "super compensation" phase they will store more glycogen than in normal conditions. In other words, they could store from 3.5 grams of glycogen to even 4 grams per 100 grams of skeletal muscle tissue. Don't forget that 1 gram of glycogen is linked with 2.7 grams of water. This means that if a bodybuilder has 45 kg (99 pounds) of Lean Muscular Tissue, (don't confuse Lean Muscular Tissue with Fat Free Mass; Lean muscular tissue is in other words "MUSCLE", instead Fat Free Mass consists of Lean Muscular Tissue + Bones + Water) he can increase his bodyweight about 4.86 kg (10.69 pounds) with glycogen and water during the carbohydrate loading phase.

The calculation goes like this:

1) Kg 45 x 10 = 450 hg

(Kg of skeletal muscle converted into hg; 1 kg equal 1000grams, 1 hg equal 100grams)

2) hg 450 x 4 = 1800 grams (total muscular glycogen content)

(the number 4 stands for the maximum glycogen content per 100 grams of muscle tissue)

3) 1800 grams x 2.7 = 4860 grams (final bodyweight achieved)

(2.7 is the grams of water linked to 1 gram of glycogen)

All this weight gained comes from glycogen and water. It's not water retention! Water retention means that water is being kept between the cells (in this case between the muscle cells) giving the muscles that smooth look that won't give you that ripped look that is so hard to reach after all the sacrifices that you made while preparing for competition. The water gained is all carried into the muscle cells because glycogen depots are located only inside and not outside the muscle and liver cells. That's why this loading phase makes the muscles appear bigger and fuller!

To cause this "supercompensation" it is very important to reload the right amount of carbs. The consumption of fewer carbohydrates than those needed won't lead to the desired effect and you may even notice that your muscles feel empty and become smaller. This is what usually happens to competitive bodybuilders! If this does happen, it would have been better NOT to have done the "depleting carb phase" at all.

If the consumption of carbs exceeds the amount needed to refill all your glycogen depots completely, that surplus will be converted into subcutaneous bodyfat. NOT GOOD.

Now you probably want to know how many carbs you should be eating in order to refill all your glycogen depots while avoiding the risk of reducing your muscle size or gaining bodyfat.

The recommended carbs consumption has been estimated at 400 to 600 grams per day for a period of 3 days after the depleting phase. There are also other very reliable experts on bodybuilding that instead of suggesting the 3 day depleting formula, they opt for 2 days for depleting and 2 days for reloading. My opinion on this is that the difference between the number of days for depleting and reloading is strictly personal and not applicable to everybody; and this is for many different reasons. Even the good results obtained with different schedules on different individuals cannot be simply applied directly to everyone else.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/casi3.htm

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/casi3.htm

[Vet]

didn't think so.

see, i have. on both counts.

that's the difference between you and i-

i do. you read.

i wonder who's advise holds more weight- the person who talks, or the person who does.

so, sweetie, 'll leave it at this-

the next time someone wants to know the 8 physiologic effects of insulin administration at the cellular level, look in your purse for that text book and it's accompanying chapter and feel free to chime in.

the next time someone wants to know how to use compounds, and their effects in an applicable situation and real time/ real life applications, chime in anyway so i can have a good laugh.

LOL.   You are something you know that?   You've pretty much just proven in my mind that you have absolutely no clue what so ever about what you are posting on and you've pretty much lost any semblance of credibility I was hoping you'd man up and prove you had.   You have failed miserably and wasted about 30 minutes of my time.   Thanks.  

I've offered to go line by line on where I think you are wrong, you have refused to do that because deep down inside, you know you don't know what you are talking about and you know I can take apart what you are trying to post piece by piece.   The insulin question was a simple one.  All it would have taken was about 10 minutes and your good friend google and I bet you could have found an answer that was acceptable.  Shit, even Candidizzler chimed into this thread and posted information thats more on base physiologically than what you were posting.  

I may still go through what you posted for shits and giggles if there are other members who are interested in what I'm thinking.  What is funniest is how you are hiding behind "real world experience" as an excuse---something that has already been established as a bullshit answer because of the anonymous nature of this very board.   If you can prove me wrong with legitimate, documented facts, do it.   Don't hide behind excuses, thats lame.  

[no one]

Let's see why that is so important!

In normal conditions the skeletal muscle glycogen concentration ranges from 1.5 grams to 2 grams per 100 grams of skeletal muscle tissue. A Swedish researcher BERGSTROM (1969) has shown that after a low carbohydrate diet that lasts for a period of 3 days accompanied with prolonged physical exercises/efforts one's skeletal muscle glycogen depots fall to a concentration of about 0.6 grams! After this limited 3 day period of carbohydrate depletion, a carbohydrate-rich diet was followed causing a new higher level of muscle glycogen content.

If the "depleting glycogen phase" has been done correctly, inducing a dramatic lowering of glycogen depots, it creates a "hunger state" for your muscles so that during the next "super compensation" phase they will store more glycogen than in normal conditions. In other words, they could store from 3.5 grams of glycogen to even 4 grams per 100 grams of skeletal muscle tissue. Don't forget that 1 gram of glycogen is linked with 2.7 grams of water. This means that if a bodybuilder has 45 kg (99 pounds) of Lean Muscular Tissue, (don't confuse Lean Muscular Tissue with Fat Free Mass; Lean muscular tissue is in other words "MUSCLE", instead Fat Free Mass consists of Lean Muscular Tissue + Bones + Water) he can increase his bodyweight about 4.86 kg (10.69 pounds) with glycogen and water during the carbohydrate loading phase.

The calculation goes like this:

1) Kg 45 x 10 = 450 hg

(Kg of skeletal muscle converted into hg; 1 kg equal 1000grams, 1 hg equal 100grams)

2) hg 450 x 4 = 1800 grams (total muscular glycogen content)

(the number 4 stands for the maximum glycogen content per 100 grams of muscle tissue)

3) 1800 grams x 2.7 = 4860 grams (final bodyweight achieved)

(2.7 is the grams of water linked to 1 gram of glycogen)

All this weight gained comes from glycogen and water. It's not water retention! Water retention means that water is being kept between the cells (in this case between the muscle cells) giving the muscles that smooth look that won't give you that ripped look that is so hard to reach after all the sacrifices that you made while preparing for competition. The water gained is all carried into the muscle cells because glycogen depots are located only inside and not outside the muscle and liver cells. That's why this loading phase makes the muscles appear bigger and fuller!

To cause this "supercompensation" it is very important to reload the right amount of carbs. The consumption of fewer carbohydrates than those needed won't lead to the desired effect and you may even notice that your muscles feel empty and become smaller. This is what usually happens to competitive bodybuilders! If this does happen, it would have been better NOT to have done the "depleting carb phase" at all.

If the consumption of carbs exceeds the amount needed to refill all your glycogen depots completely, that surplus will be converted into subcutaneous bodyfat. NOT GOOD.

Now you probably want to know how many carbs you should be eating in order to refill all your glycogen depots while avoiding the risk of reducing your muscle size or gaining bodyfat.

The recommended carbs consumption has been estimated at 400 to 600 grams per day for a period of 3 days after the depleting phase. There are also other very reliable experts on bodybuilding that instead of suggesting the 3 day depleting formula, they opt for 2 days for depleting and 2 days for reloading. My opinion on this is that the difference between the number of days for depleting and reloading is strictly personal and not applicable to everybody; and this is for many different reasons. Even the good results obtained with different schedules on different individuals cannot be simply applied directly to everyone else.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/casi3.htm

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/casi3.htm

that's a great copy/ paste.

i can't find the part in there where it says why you lose muscle if you don't re-feed.

[no one]

LOL.   You are something you know that?   You've pretty much just proven in my mind that you have absolutely no clue what so ever about what you are posting on and you've pretty much lost any semblance of credibility I was hoping you'd man up and prove you had.   You have failed miserably and wasted about 30 minutes of my time.  Thanks. 

I've offered to go line by line on where I think you are wrong, you have refused to do that because deep down inside, you know you don't know what you are talking about and you know I can take apart what you are trying to post piece by piece.   The insulin question was a simple one.  All it would have taken was about 10 minutes and your good friend google and I bet you could have found an answer that was acceptable.  Shit, even Candidizzler chimed into this thread and posted information thats more on base physiologically than what you were posting. 

I may still go through what you posted for shits and giggles if there are other members who are interested in what I'm thinking.  What is funniest is how you are hiding behind "real world experience" as an excuse---something that has already been established as a bullshit answer because of the anonymous nature of this very board.   If you can prove me wrong with legitimate, documented facts, do it.   Don't hide behind excuses, thats lame.   

you're welcome.

[Vet]

Let's see why that is so important!

In normal conditions the skeletal muscle glycogen concentration ranges from 1.5 grams to 2 grams per 100 grams of skeletal muscle tissue. A Swedish researcher BERGSTROM (1969) has shown that after a low carbohydrate diet that lasts for a period of 3 days accompanied with prolonged physical exercises/efforts one's skeletal muscle glycogen depots fall to a concentration of about 0.6 grams! After this limited 3 day period of carbohydrate depletion, a carbohydrate-rich diet was followed causing a new higher level of muscle glycogen content.

If the "depleting glycogen phase" has been done correctly, inducing a dramatic lowering of glycogen depots, it creates a "hunger state" for your muscles so that during the next "super compensation" phase they will store more glycogen than in normal conditions. In other words, they could store from 3.5 grams of glycogen to even 4 grams per 100 grams of skeletal muscle tissue. Don't forget that 1 gram of glycogen is linked with 2.7 grams of water. This means that if a bodybuilder has 45 kg (99 pounds) of Lean Muscular Tissue, (don't confuse Lean Muscular Tissue with Fat Free Mass; Lean muscular tissue is in other words "MUSCLE", instead Fat Free Mass consists of Lean Muscular Tissue + Bones + Water) he can increase his bodyweight about 4.86 kg (10.69 pounds) with glycogen and water during the carbohydrate loading phase.

The calculation goes like this:

1) Kg 45 x 10 = 450 hg

(Kg of skeletal muscle converted into hg; 1 kg equal 1000grams, 1 hg equal 100grams)

2) hg 450 x 4 = 1800 grams (total muscular glycogen content)

(the number 4 stands for the maximum glycogen content per 100 grams of muscle tissue)

3) 1800 grams x 2.7 = 4860 grams (final bodyweight achieved)

(2.7 is the grams of water linked to 1 gram of glycogen)

All this weight gained comes from glycogen and water. It's not water retention! Water retention means that water is being kept between the cells (in this case between the muscle cells) giving the muscles that smooth look that won't give you that ripped look that is so hard to reach after all the sacrifices that you made while preparing for competition. The water gained is all carried into the muscle cells because glycogen depots are located only inside and not outside the muscle and liver cells. That's why this loading phase makes the muscles appear bigger and fuller!

To cause this "supercompensation" it is very important to reload the right amount of carbs. The consumption of fewer carbohydrates than those needed won't lead to the desired effect and you may even notice that your muscles feel empty and become smaller. This is what usually happens to competitive bodybuilders! If this does happen, it would have been better NOT to have done the "depleting carb phase" at all.

If the consumption of carbs exceeds the amount needed to refill all your glycogen depots completely, that surplus will be converted into subcutaneous bodyfat. NOT GOOD.

Now you probably want to know how many carbs you should be eating in order to refill all your glycogen depots while avoiding the risk of reducing your muscle size or gaining bodyfat.

The recommended carbs consumption has been estimated at 400 to 600 grams per day for a period of 3 days after the depleting phase. There are also other very reliable experts on bodybuilding that instead of suggesting the 3 day depleting formula, they opt for 2 days for depleting and 2 days for reloading. My opinion on this is that the difference between the number of days for depleting and reloading is strictly personal and not applicable to everybody; and this is for many different reasons. Even the good results obtained with different schedules on different individuals cannot be simply applied directly to everyone else.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/casi3.htm

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/casi3.htm

Yes, I need to check the math, but this looks right.  The one thing that I dont' see mentioned, but I think is implied, is the brain.  Your brain and nerves MUST have a certian amount of glucose per day for normal function.  The ketogenic diet limits this dietarily available glucose by inducing the [percieved] starvation state that leads to ketone production.  The body will begin breaking down muscle tissue along with fat tissue for glucose production if this persists.   The 'recarb" period is to prevent the body from breaking down muscle by providing necessary fuel for the brain and nerves in addition to replenishing glycogen stores--which will also provide fuel as that is broken down.

The other thing you have to consider is that the metabolism of ketones leads to an acidic state within the body.  When the blood pH drops below ~7.2 you enter a state of Ketoacidosis, which is a life threatening event. Recarbing will prevent this pH drop from becoming severe. 

[candidizzle]

well no,  "ketosis" is actually refering to a state in which your body is using ketones for BRAIN FUEL, istad of glucose. pretty cool thing about ketones is, that they can pass through the brain barrier unlike other ffa's.


still, you are correct, there are indeed SOME glucose demands even when in ketosis, but not necessarily for the brain.    i once read that after a full month of ketognic dieting that your body would be using 85% fats fo fuel. so, even when "fat adapted" IT SEEMS as if muscle wasting will occur with some carb intake. especially when glycogen depleting weight weight lifting.


i dont like a diet plan whose goal is to get into ketosis, rather, i like a diet plan where one of the frequent by products is elevated amount of ketones, and infrequent lapses ito actual "ketosis"...

as i ssaid before, it takes me a day or less to get into keto; and sometimes if i do two or more pro/fat combos without any carbs i will find myself slipping into it.     

[no one]

Yes, I need to check the math, but this looks right.  The one thing that I dont' see mentioned, but I think is implied, is the brain.  Your brain and nerves MUST have a certian amount of glucose per day for normal function.  The ketogenic diet limits this dietarily available glucose by inducing the [percieved] starvation state that leads to ketone production. The body will begin breaking down muscle tissue along with fat tissue for glucose production if this persists The 'recarb" period is to prevent the body from breaking down muscle by providing necessary fuel for the brain and nerves in addition to replenishing glycogen stores--which will also provide fuel as that is broken down.

The other thing you have to consider is that the metabolism of ketones leads to an acidic state within the body.  When the blood pH drops below ~7.2 you enter a state of Ketoacidosis, which is a life threatening event. Recarbing will prevent this pH drop from becoming severe. 

i'm glad you had the common sense to edit this post as opposed to the first mess you thru up in response.

in any case, the example you have outlined above is not what would happen should you decided to stay in ketosis without a re-feed.

this is a starvation scenario, and again shows your ignorance of the practical use of the ketogenic diet.

stop embarrassing yourself. your 'experience' is really shining thru.

nice work.

[Vet]

well no,  "ketosis" is actually refering to a state in which your body is using ketones for BRAIN FUEL, istad of glucose. pretty cool thing about ketones is, that they can pass through the brain barrier unlike other ffa's.


still, you are correct, there are indeed SOME glucose demands even when in ketosis, but not necessarily for the brain.    i once read that after a full month of ketognic dieting that your body would be using 85% fats fo fuel. so, even when "fat adapted" IT SEEMS as if muscle wasting will occur with some carb intake. especially when glycogen depleting weight weight lifting.


i dont like a diet plan whose goal is to get into ketosis, rather, i like a diet plan where one of the frequent by products is elevated amount of ketones, and infrequent lapses ito actual "ketosis"...

as i ssaid before, it takes me a day or less to get into keto; and sometimes if i do two or more pro/fat combos without any carbs i will find myself slipping into it.     

I think I see what you are saying and you aren't incorrect (I also think in rereading my post, I was a  bit vague) but you have to consider the structure of nerves.  There is a central body where energy organelles like mitochondria exist, but there are few mitochondria in the axons, and mitochondria are the point where ketone metabolism occurs so even if ketones are being used as an energy source nerves MUST have a source of glucose.  The brain can technically use ketones for fuel production to a degree (although ketones are generally thought of as a metabolic product, not a substrate), but they cannot derive 100% of their necessary fuel from that atypical substrate.   If I remmber right its something like 1/3 of a neurons energy must come from glucose.  There is no subsitute for this.  And the body will do what it has to to protect the brain.  If there isn't glucose or insulin to asist in glucose entering the nerve for fuel, the nerve will decrease in function or may die.  This is really the basis (along with cardiovascular effects) for the formation of diabetic neuropathy. 

The other thing you have to consider is that a large portion of the brains structure is fatty tissue.  If the body is so depleted its forced to metabolize a stored fat there is reason to think that there may be changes in nerous tissue also, although thats probably microscopic in nature and you'd be knocking on deaths door long before it became a factor. 

[Vet]

i'm glad you had the common sense to edit this post as opposed to the first mess you thru up in response.

in any case, the example you have outlined above is not what would happen should you decided to stay in ketosis without a re-feed.

Then explain what would happen.