Author Topic: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided  (Read 1411 times)

Dos Equis

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Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« on: May 07, 2008, 08:59:18 AM »
Hillary should quit.

Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided

Tuesday, May 6, 2008 9:10 AM

By: Newsmax Staff  Article Font Size   

The battle between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton for the Democratic presidential nomination has created a deep divide within the party that may be difficult for the eventual winner to overcome, according to Democratic strategist James Carville.

As Carville sees it, there are two “main parts” of the Democratic Party, which he calls “Party A” and “Party B.”

Party A Democrats tend to be urban or suburban, are traditionally better educated, white, more affluent, heavily female, socially liberal and reform-oriented, Carville observes in a column for The Financial Times.

Candidates from this wing include Adlai Stevenson, Eugene McCarthy, Gary Hart, Mike Dukakis, Bill Bradley and Howard Dean.

Party B Democrats are comprised of “a more broad coalition of working class people who are generally less affluent, less educated, and look to the federal government to soften the harsher edges of capitalism,” writes Carville, who was Bill Clinton’s campaign manager for the 1992 presidential race and is now a CNN political contributor.

They tend to be either urban or rural, and include labor unions, older voters, and African-Americans.

Candidates from this part include Harry Truman, Hubert Humphrey, Walter Mondale, and Bill Clinton.

In the past, the less affluent Party B has usually won the day, Carville notes. But in the current race, Obama — whom he calls “an almost prototype Party A Democrat” — reaches into Party B’s ranks and wins the African-American vote.

Clinton — “whose message is almost exclusively Party B” — attracts a significant number of older, educated white women, who normally belong in the Party A camp, according to Carville.

The eventual nominee, therefore, will have to “bridge the fissures within the party” and also “find a way to re-embrace those racial and gender identity voters who now find themselves aligned with a new wing of the party,” says Carville.

Specifically, Carville wonders if Clinton can win the vote from African-Americans who supported Obama, and if Obama can attract older, college-educated white women who embraced Clinton.

Carville concludes that for the Democratic nominee, uniting the party “is going to be one demanding, difficult job.”
 
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/Carville_Democrats_Divide/2008/05/06/93789.html

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2008, 09:03:25 AM »
Hillary should quit.

I agree.....





















Lib.

Tre

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2008, 09:55:26 AM »

According to Obama and Clinton, I'm 'rich'.   ::)


















They can both kiss my ass.












Pro-Mod-Lib.

Decker

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2008, 09:56:36 AM »
No she shouldn't quit.

Why?

Because there are multiple factions (A or B?) that compete? 

Since when does campaigning bloody a candidate and divide a party? 

If the democratic party cannot withstand a legitimate competition, then it's time to fold up the shop.

This is another non-issue from people with little to say...like Carville.

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2008, 10:31:02 AM »
I dont see that debating hurts a chance for a dem president.  If anything, the debates keep more people in the dem side of things.  Even if they flip back and forth betweem hil and obama the message  is clear from a daily stand point that john mccain is a no option.  ie: gas,food,economy....

Dos Equis

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2008, 10:55:24 AM »
She should quit because she cannot win the primary without using super delegates to overturn pledged delegates and pledged delegates are based on the popular vote of each state.  It would undemocratic (so to speak) for super delegates to hand her the nomination. 

Her campaign isn't like Ron Paul's, who was at least trying to run on some different issues.  Obama and Hillary are the same candidate with different plumbing.   

Plus she can't win the general.  Her negatives are too high.  People simply don't like her. 

 

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2008, 10:55:27 AM »
Good for you Tre...I'm not there but hope to be some day and I won't want 45% of my hard earned $ taken from me either.



-Moderately conservative independent  :)

Decker

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2008, 11:01:50 AM »
She should quit because she cannot win the primary without using super delegates to overturn pledged delegates and pledged delegates are based on the popular vote of each state.  It would undemocratic (so to speak) for super delegates to hand her the nomination. 

Her campaign isn't like Ron Paul's, who was at least trying to run on some different issues.  Obama and Hillary are the same candidate with different plumbing.   

Plus she can't win the general.  Her negatives are too high.  People simply don't like her. 

 
God forbid that the democratic convention turns into a true caucus instead of a coronation. 

Sometimes life doesn't follow the national script.

I would think Ron Paul has a different platform--he's a republican originalist.

Dos Equis

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2008, 11:53:18 AM »
God forbid that the democratic convention turns into a true caucus instead of a coronation. 

Sometimes life doesn't follow the national script.

I would think Ron Paul has a different platform--he's a republican originalist.

You don't have a problem with superdelegates upsetting the popular vote? 

Does it bother you that the Hawaii superdelegates (which include Dan Inouye) may vote for Clinton, despite the fact Obama won every precinct in Hawaii by a landslide? 

Tre

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2008, 12:54:41 PM »

I have yet to see the need for superdelegates.  I lived 35 years and never even heard the term and now these people are about to play a heavy role in determining how poor I'll be for the next 4 years?  And at least one of them has never even voted in a national election before??

Decker

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2008, 02:37:02 PM »
You don't have a problem with superdelegates upsetting the popular vote? 

Does it bother you that the Hawaii superdelegates (which include Dan Inouye) may vote for Clinton, despite the fact Obama won every precinct in Hawaii by a landslide? 
Do you have any problem with the electoral college?  It's the same thing.

Dos Equis

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2008, 02:42:33 PM »
Do you have any problem with the electoral college?  It's the same thing.

You didn't answer my questions. 

To answer yours, I don't have a problem with the electoral college . . . yet.  I don't recall them ever contradicting the popular vote in each state (yes I know Gore won the popular vote overall).  If the members of the college started saying the things I'm hearing from the Hawaii contigent (i.e., voting for a candidate who lost every precinct by a landslide), then I would have a problem.   

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2008, 02:48:50 PM »
superdelegates decide things when a candidate has won a majority of states for the nomination, then a scandal comes out which makes him unwinnable in the fall.

Dos Equis

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2008, 03:19:41 PM »
Coming together?  I agree with Dodd:

“She’s got to decide what she’s got to do, and barring something I’m not aware of, this looks like it’s headed to a Barack nomination,” Connecticut Sen. Chris Dodd said. “I think at some point you have to start asking yourself, ‘What’s the purpose here?’

Obama Camp Aims to Finish Off Clinton in Nomination Fight   
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/05/07/obama-camp-aims-to-finish-off-clinton-in-nomination-fight/

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calmus

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2008, 04:26:03 PM »

not going to read the lazy sob's cut and paste, but carville's full a shit.

Tre

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2008, 05:12:14 PM »
Do you have any problem with the electoral college?  It's the same thing.

Yes and no. 

I've always thought it would be reasonable for electoral votes to be split proportionally, but I'm not ready to trash it just yet.

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2008, 04:50:52 AM »
The DEMO crap can divide each other into as many parts of a party as they want to because the deep divisions will cause them to be what they are, which is a party that has never had an affective alternative to CONSERVATIVES. IF they ever had or could re-invent themselves to be anti-liberal and not be as self-serving as republicans can be, then they would be taken seriously and that has not proven to be the case since the 108th Congress began last year without Dennis Hastert, Bill Frist, Trent Lott, and the rest of the GOP elite.

John McCain will be "the more kinder, gentler" conservative with some sense of compassion than those who served when Hastert was the Speaker of the House. 

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2008, 07:23:51 AM »
You didn't answer my questions. 

To answer yours, I don't have a problem with the electoral college . . . yet.  I don't recall them ever contradicting the popular vote in each state (yes I know Gore won the popular vote overall).  If the members of the college started saying the things I'm hearing from the Hawaii contigent (i.e., voting for a candidate who lost every precinct by a landslide), then I would have a problem.   
I don't care for the electoral/superdelegate process but those are the rules that exist. 

I remember when a member of the electoral board of Florida promised to give the state to Bush irrespective of the recount results (which was never completed).

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2008, 08:55:12 AM »
I don't care for the electoral/superdelegate process but those are the rules that exist. 

I remember when a member of the electoral board of Florida promised to give the state to Bush irrespective of the recount results (which was never completed).

Does it bother you that the Hawaii superdelegates (which include Dan Inouye) may vote for Clinton, despite the fact Obama won every precinct in Hawaii by a landslide? 

Tre

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2008, 10:09:32 AM »

I don't like anything about the superdelegates. 

Decker

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2008, 11:00:07 AM »
Does it bother you that the Hawaii superdelegates (which include Dan Inouye) may vote for Clinton, despite the fact Obama won every precinct in Hawaii by a landslide? 
As I said, I don't care for the electoral process that is one step removed from '1 person 1 vote' sort of democracy.

But those are the rules.

To me it is inconsequential to the vote I will cast.  With McCain we get 4 more years of Bush policies.

Based on the record, that's not too wise a choice.

Dos Equis

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2008, 11:04:34 AM »
As I said, I don't care for the electoral process that is one step removed from '1 person 1 vote' sort of democracy.

But those are the rules.

To me it is inconsequential to the vote I will cast.  With McCain we get 4 more years of Bush policies.

Based on the record, that's not too wise a choice.

I'm not asking about whether you like the process (which I'm not crazy about either), I'm asking about the specific situation in Hawaii:  Does it bother you that the Hawaii superdelegates (which include Dan Inouye) may vote for Clinton, despite the fact Obama won every precinct in Hawaii by a landslide?   

Decker

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2008, 11:15:15 AM »
I'm not asking about whether you like the process (which I'm not crazy about either), I'm asking about the specific situation in Hawaii:  Does it bother you that the Hawaii superdelegates (which include Dan Inouye) may vote for Clinton, despite the fact Obama won every precinct in Hawaii by a landslide?   
Of course it does b/c I view it as a problem indicative of the system's diminishment of democracy.

So yes, it does bother me.

Dos Equis

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Re: Carville: Democrats Deeply Divided
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2008, 11:26:39 AM »
Of course it does b/c I view it as a problem indicative of the system's diminishment of democracy.

So yes, it does bother me.

O.K.  Thanks.  We agree.