Quit living in Denial face the facts and smell the godamn coffee folks

[McFarland]

I think the only reason you keep throwing all this out there is because you want all your possible arguments against using to be destroyed by whatever you get back in response from the "collective Getbig consciousness," thus finally enabling you to fulfill your bodybuilding destiny that you are so hesitant to embrace.  

[Bluto]

stark hasnt responded in 5 minutes

he must've dropped dead to the floor

[Camel Jockey]

So you let the government make personal decisions for you?  I feel sorry for you, being your age and not realizing you have the freedom to choose.

I do not understand why some people take the law as absolute. Just because something is law doesn't mean that it's wrong.

The government makes billions from taxing two very harmful products(tobacco and alcohol), yet tell people that they can't use marijuana or performance enhancing drugs, both of which are ACTUALLY safer than both alcohol and tobacco.

People that make the arguement that one shouldn't do drugs just because they're illegal lack the skills to think critically. These people people ensure that our presidential elections are a joke, they allow the war on drugs to continue, they bought the Iraq story, and they let politicians run our fucking lives like puppet masters.

Wake the fuck up people.

[Matt C]

I do not understand why some people take the law as absolute. Just because something is law doesn't mean that it's wrong.

The government makes billions from taxing two very harmful products(tobacco and alcohol), yet tell people that they can't use marijuana or performance enhancing drugs, both of which are ACTUALLY safer than both alcohol and tobacco.

People that make the arguement that one shouldn't do drugs just because they're illegal lack the skills to think critically. These people people ensure that our presidential elections are a joke, they allow the war on drugs to continue, they bought the Iraq story, and they let politicians run our fucking lives like puppet masters.

Wake the fuck up people.

Excellent points!!!

I also liked McFarland thoughts that Stark's subconscious motivations behind this thread may be to get the collective response from this board in favour of steroid use.

Should I use?

[Camel Jockey]

You are missing the pt here. I agree with you and feel we should have the freedom to choose whatever drugs we want. However, need I remind YOU, that the existing law says most of the steroid use BB engage in is ILLEGAL.
If you get busted, you can't use your opinion as a good defense for breaking the law.
In that light drug use is NOT a personal decision , limited to the individuals choice. It is a LEGAL issue.

If laws are unjust then they should be disregarded.

This country was founded on the idea of individual civil liberties.

[BM OUT]

Well,lets see.If I take steroids I support organised crime.Hmmmm,and the guys who passed the laws making these drugs illegal are what?GANGSTERS!!!From the murderer Ted Kennedy,to the airport head hunter senator Craig,these law makers are every bit as dangerous and corrupt as the most hardened criminals on earth.In fact,they make the mafia look like Sunday school picknickers.So please,until we get decent representation,don't preach the law to us.

[McFarland]

Excellent points!!!

I also liked McFarland thoughts that Stark's subconscious motivations behind this thread may be to get the collective response from this board in favour of steroid use.

Should I use?

Well there are just a hell of a lot more people that you're gonna be able to convince to USE, that don't use, than there are people who already use, that you could talk OUT OF using.  Kinda like the expression, "you don't change the devil, the devil changes YOU."  So Stark in effect is looking to be converted, plain and simple.   

And Matt, I think we may have already discussed it, but no, you should not use, or at least not until Canada gets Musclephone. 

[Matt C]

You are missing the pt here. I agree with you and feel we should have the freedom to choose whatever drugs we want. However, need I remind YOU, that the existing law says most of the steroid use BB engage in is ILLEGAL.
If you get busted, you can't use your opinion as a good defense for breaking the law.
In that light drug use is NOT a personal decision , limited to the individuals choice. It is a LEGAL issue.

Less than 5% of everyone involved in drugs on any level get caught.  Those who do are pawns to be burnt to give the illusion that drugs are being fought.  They aren't, and furthermore, they can't be fought in a free country.  Police have virtually no rights and so the cards are heavily stacked in favour of people involved with drugs.  Police do not even have the rights to search your pockets.  Not only can't police fight drugs, that's not the point anyway.  The point is to make the trade seem risky so that the profit remains.

[Camel Jockey]

There's tons of police around my block, but the drug dealers are so far ahead of them that it's not even funny. Sure, the cops bust a few here and there, but another guy pops up and take their place.

The thing is that drugs are so lucrative that there are now many involved. It's not just hispanics and whites distributing these days, but anyone who's daring and wants to earn some money.

I've bought drugs right infront of undercover cops before and the dealer and I pretty much knew they were undercover, but they never even saw the transaction and were sipping their coffee. Street dealing is now gone and it's mostly dilivery, which is almost impossible to stop. The kingpins mostly distribute and leave it at that. This leads to drugs being handled by so many that the cops can hardly stop the flow of drugs.

[G o a t b o y]

And this is the aspect I cannot shift my view for a single inch, it is prooven that in most countries (in Europe etc) these drugs are illegal, so anybody who is taking steroids that have not been subscibed by a Doctor (see Lee Priest ) must therefor buy his drugs from an illegal source, i don't care if it is your best friend or the local gymrat, follow the rabbit trail and you sure find your usual suspect distributing and smuggling the drugs to the country you are buying it in.
Mexican Mafia
Russian Mafia
Asian Mafia
In general drug cartels or criminal organisations and the very same organisations the public and law enformentc trying so desperately to fight.

There is no denying in it folks, if you juice and you have not got your drugs from your doctor on a legal way... you might want to go over to your local scumbag drug baron and give him your support right there and than.
Because you guys support elements in this Society that are in any way and from but especially morally corrupted and wrong.

Hope that helps.

Ultimately, whose fault is it that these drug mafias exist, the drug users or the law that made the drugs illegal?  If the drugs were not illegal, they would be sold to consumers by legitimate businesses, and the mafias/gangs, etc wouldn't exist.  So, people who say drugs are "bad" because of the bad people who sell them and therefore should remain illegal make a circular argument.  All you have to do to get rid of the "bad people" is get rid of the laws and legalize the drugs, not try to get rid of the users.  The former you could do in a day with the stroke of a pen... the latter you'll never do in a million years because it goes against basic human nature.


Hope this helps.

[medz zeppelin]

There's tons of police around my block, but the drug dealers are so far ahead of them that it's not even funny. Sure, the cops bust a few here and there, but another guy pops up and take their place.

The thing is that drugs are so lucrative that there are now many involved. It's not just hispanics and whites distributing these days, but anyone who's daring and wants to earn some money.

I've bought drugs right infront of undercover cops before and the dealer and I pretty much knew they were undercover, but they never even saw the transaction and were sipping their coffee. Street dealing is now gone and it's mostly dilivery, which is almost impossible to stop. The kingpins mostly distribute and leave it at that. This leads to drugs being handled by so many that the cops can hardly stop the flow of drugs.

are they guys with shirts open to their waists with pinky rings,guys with dreads and machetes or greasy short tan guys spray painting ms 13 all over the fucking place?

[Stark]

I am not sure about the level of organized crime in steroid dealing, but the fact is, most steroid use is illegal.
This requires a user to break the law and deal with some form of drug dealer.
I am glad you mentioned this aspect of the steroid issue. Over the past 15 years, I have observed an increase in the "criminal/thug/renegade" element in bodybuilding.

thank you Howard, and let this be heard, if Steroids would be legal and I would have reached the age of 40+ I would be the
first to "supplement" with a little Test, however as long as i have to get these drugs from sources I find highly suspect I will
not change my mind.
The closest I ever came of doing test was in Egypt, have been there for over a month way back and I asked for the fun of it
in the local Holiday resort Drugstore what they have to offer.... of course since they are legal he had all the stuff you want.

Again for all you who are too lazy to read my post... Your health is not of my concern, the criminal scumbag organization you support by buying juice from them is my concern. Try to argue your way out of that one.

[Stark]

Ultimately, whose fault is it that these drug mafias exist, the drug users or the law that made the drugs illegal?  If the drugs were not illegal, they would be sold to consumers by legitimate businesses, and the mafias/gangs, etc wouldn't exist.  So, people who say drugs are "bad" because of the bad people who sell them and therefore should remain illegal make a circular argument.  All you have to do to get rid of the "bad people" is get rid of the laws and legalize the drugs, not try to get rid of the users.  The former you could do in a day with the stroke of a pen... the latter you'll never do in a million years because it goes against basic human nature.


Hope this helps.

There is always two sides of the story, the criminal organizations would not exist could not exist without income, people that give them money for what ever service generate their income.

[G o a t b o y]

thank you Howard, and let this be heard, if Steroids would be legal and I would have reached the age of 40+ I would be the
first to "supplement" with a little Test, however as long as i have to get these drugs from sources I find highly suspect I will
not change my mind.

Actually, if you're 40+, you can get them legally.  Not enough to gain any real size, mind you, but enough to help a little in your advanced age.

[Camel Jockey]

are they guys with shirts open to their waists with pinky rings,guys with dreads and machetes or greasy short tan guys spray painting ms 13 all over the fucking place?

Different types sell to different types of people.

Those mexicans attract a lot of attention, but they're a very small part of the picture. You wouldn't believe how many people deal.

[no one]

shut up, stupid.

[Stark]

Actually, if you're 40+, you can get them legally.  Not enough to gain any real size, mind you, but enough to help a little in your advanced age.

Is that US only?

[medz zeppelin]

Is that US only?

keep shooting your mouth off about aas wiseass.........they found Squaddy and they'll find you....bawdababababooooo oooooooooooom!!!!!

[CalvinH]

As an Italian I fully approve of steroid money being funneled to the mob

[Rimbaud]

I shouldn't have bothered to read it because I knew it was going to be an antisteroid rant but can I please have two minutes of my life back?

[Stark]

keep shooting your mouth off about aas wiseass.........they found Squaddy and they'll find you....bawdababababooooo oooooooooooom!!!!!

I have no problem with that, never lied never exaggeratedly always said the truth.

[G o a t b o y]

There is always two sides of the story, the criminal organizations would not exist could not exist without income, people that give them money for what ever service generate their income.

They also wouldn't exist without the illegality of drugs.  It's possible to eliminate prohibition; it is not possible to eliminate demand for these items.  That makes the solution a no-brainer. 

[Mobil]

there has been more deaths and health complications with women's breast implants then people using steroids......  lets make breast implants illegal. also, the people who have health issues are the ones that abuse pain killers and other rec drugs.

[Howard]

If laws are unjust then they should be disregarded.

This country was founded on the idea of individual civil liberties.

Right on! Let us now form a "million musclehead march" on Washinton in protest of making steroids illegal.
I bet we would get ton of public and political support