Author Topic: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter  (Read 4031 times)

OzmO

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Albert Einstein described belief in God as "childish superstition" and said Jews were not the chosen people, in a letter to be sold in London this week, an auctioneer said Tuesday.
The father of relativity, whose previously known views on religion have been more ambivalent and fuelled much discussion, made the comments in response to a philosopher in 1954.

As a Jew himself, Einstein said he had a great affinity with Jewish people but said they "have no different quality for me than all other people".

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.

"No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this," he wrote in the letter written on January 3, 1954 to the philosopher Eric Gutkind, cited by The Guardian newspaper.

The German-language letter is being sold Thursday by Bloomsbury Auctions in Mayfair after being in a private collection for more than 50 years, said the auction house's managing director Rupert Powell.

In it, the renowned scientist, who declined an invitation to become Israel's second president, rejected the idea that the Jews are God's chosen people.

"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions," he said.

"And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people."

And he added: "As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them."

Previously the great scientist's comments on religion -- such as "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" -- have been the subject of much debate, used notably to back up arguments in favour of faith.

Powell said the letter being sold this week gave a clear reflection of Einstein's real thoughts on the subject. "He's fairly unequivocal as to what he's saying. There's no beating about the bush," he told AFP.



Poor guy, he must be burning in hell right now.

Decker

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2008, 07:13:34 AM »
I think the 'faith' that Einstein was referring to was his faith in the rationality of the universe where math and science are capable of working.

That's not the same thing as having faith in god and the status of the chosen people and all that stuff.

Fury

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2008, 04:25:26 PM »
Einstein also disagreed with the establishment of Israel.

Camel Jockey

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2008, 08:18:17 PM »
Slap in the face to all that the christian idiots that claimed him as their own.

loco

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2008, 06:37:59 AM »
Slap in the face to all that the christian idiots that claimed him as their own.

The claim is that he believed in God, not that he was a Christian.

loco

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2008, 06:39:11 AM »
And he added: "As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them."

What does that mean?

OzmO

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2008, 08:10:43 AM »
What does that mean?

I think what he means is that the Jewish people are not a powerful nation and becuase of that they are not afflicted with the "cancers", meaning bad things, that come with power.

That was 1954.  With America's backing they are pretty powerful now and have a suspect track record.

loco

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2008, 08:42:31 AM »
I think what he means is that the Jewish people are not a powerful nation and becuase of that they are not afflicted with the "cancers", meaning bad things, that come with power.

That was 1954.  With America's backing they are pretty powerful now and have a suspect track record.

Makes sense.  Thank you!

He says "As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups" and "I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them."

I think it is ironic that these statements come from non-other than Einstein himself, also a Jew and a Nobel prize winner.  Most Nobel prize winners are Jews and Jews score the highest in IQ tests.

Hustle Man

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2008, 08:55:04 AM »
The claim is that he believed in God, not that he was a Christian.

Is it possibly to belive in God but not be a Christian?
W

loco

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2008, 09:16:31 AM »
Is it possibly to belive in God but not be a Christian?

Yes.

James 2:19
"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder."


OzmO

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2008, 09:24:01 AM »
Makes sense.  Thank you!

He says "As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups" and "I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them."

I think it is ironic that these statements come from non-other than Einstein himself, also a Jew and a Nobel prize winner.  Most Nobel prize winners are Jews and Jews score the highest in IQ tests.

Do they really?  wow,  didn't know that.

loco

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2008, 09:33:16 AM »
Do they really?  wow,  didn't know that.

Yup:

Jewish Genius
"In the first half of the 20th century, despite pervasive and continuing social discrimination against Jews throughout the Western world, despite the retraction of legal rights, and despite the Holocaust, Jews won 14 percent of Nobel Prizes in literature, chemistry, physics, and medicine/physiology. In the second half of the 20th century, when Nobel Prizes began to be awarded to people from all over the world, that figure rose to 29 percent. So far, in the 21st century, it has been 32 percent. Jews constitute about two-tenths of one percent of the world’s population. You do the math."
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/jewish-genius-10855?page=all

"Though never exceeding 3 percent of the American population, Jews account for 37 percent of the winners of the U.S. National Medal of Science, 25 percent of the American Nobel Prize winners in literature, 40 percent of the American Nobel Prize winners in science and economics, and so on. On the world stage, we find that 54 percent of the world chess champions have had one or two Jewish parents."
http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/2006_06_17_thenewrepublic.html


SAMSON123

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2008, 09:36:39 AM »
Is it possibly to belive in God but not be a Christian?

NO
C

SAMSON123

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2008, 09:41:27 AM »
Yes.

James 2:19
"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder."



YOU FOOL...The correct interpretation of that is almost self explanatory.

Demons would have you believe in many gods (Satan and his dominion) in order to keep you away from the one and only GOD. They (demons) shudder at the thought of GOD and a ONE GOD ONLY UNIVERSE....
C

Hustle Man

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2008, 09:44:50 AM »
Yes.

James 2:19
"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder."



Good verse I completely forgot that one thanks bro!
W

Deedee

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2008, 09:47:20 AM »
Einstein also disagreed with the establishment of Israel.

Is that true?  I thought he was only opposed to the founding government.

Is it possibly to belive in God but not be a Christian?

Yes, if you are a Jew.  Yahweh made himself known to the Jews.  Christians and Jews share the same God.  The validity of whether or not Jesus was the Messiah is where the road splits.

OzmO

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2008, 09:53:08 AM »
I don't think it's the "same God"   It's a similar "interpretation" and or "identification" of God.  And if Jews don't believe Jesus was God, then do they really believe in the same God?

Deedee

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2008, 09:55:18 AM »
Do they really?  wow,  didn't know that.

Jews do tend to score high on IQ tests, and not surprisingly education and knowledge are highly valued in their communities.

BUT, most nobel prize winners are Christians. I think loco was talking about proportions and percentages not overall numbers.

Interestingly, a high percentage of nobel prize winners also fall under the astrological signs of Gemini and Virgo, which makes sense since these are considered the "thinking" signs.  The least representation falls under the sign of Capricorn.  Einstein was a Pisces, which may account for his wackiness and consistent, outspoken fight for world peace.   ;)

loco

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2008, 09:56:38 AM »
YOU FOOL...The correct interpretation of that is almost self explanatory.

Demons would have you believe in many gods (Satan and his dominion) in order to keep you away from the one and only GOD. They (demons) shudder at the thought of GOD and a ONE GOD ONLY UNIVERSE....

Hey Samson!  Am I a fool?  I'm sure that you are a very wise man!    ;D

My point is that demons believe in God because they have seen God, yet they are not Christians.  So yes, it is possible to believe in God and not be a Christian.

And as Deedee said, Jews also believe in the same God that Christians believe in, Yahweh, yet they are not Christians.  So again, yes, it is possible to believe in God and not be a Christian.

loco

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2008, 09:57:34 AM »
BUT, most nobel prize winners are Christians. I think loco was talking about proportions and percentages not overall numbers.

Yes, thanks Deedee!   ;D

Deedee

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2008, 09:57:51 AM »
I don't think it's the "same God"   It's a similar "interpretation" and or "identification" of God.  And if Jews don't believe Jesus was God, then do they really believe in the same God?

If that were true, Christians would have thrown away the OT since those are the words of the "Jewish" God.

loco

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2008, 10:03:06 AM »
I don't think it's the "same God"   It's a similar "interpretation" and or "identification" of God.  And if Jews don't believe Jesus was God, then do they really believe in the same God?

It is the same God.  The OT is part of what we believe to be the Inspired Word of God.  Not like the Muslims who embrace the Koran and throw out the OT and the NT, even though some stuff in the Koran come from both the OT and the NT.

Hustle Man

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2008, 10:21:17 AM »
Yes, if you are a Jew.  Yahweh made himself known to the Jews.  Christians and Jews share the same God.  The validity of whether or not Jesus was the Messiah is where the road splits.
Well you can throw in the Mulims too, they also believe in the God revealed in the Pentatuch but when it comes to salvation

The bible says:

1 John 5:9-12

Sums it up in verse 12 Whoever (Christians) has the Son (Jesus) has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

My question is really this what is the scripture saying in 1 John 5 about the importance of believing in Jesus vice just believing in God (The Father) alone?  

W

Fury

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2008, 10:23:15 AM »
Is that true?  I thought he was only opposed to the founding government.

"Despite his years of Zionist efforts, Einstein publicly stated reservations about the proposal to partition the British-supervised British Mandate of Palestine into independent Arab and Jewish countries. In a 1938 speech, "Our Debt to Zionism", he said: "I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain—especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight strongly, even without a Jewish state. ... If external necessity should after all compel us to assume this burden [of a state], let us bear it with tact and patience."[68]

Another good Einstein comment on religion from one of his papers published in Nature.

"Einstein published a paper in Nature in 1940 entitled "Science and Religion" which gave his views on the subject.[57] He says that: "a person who is religiously enlightened appears to me to be one who has, to the best of his ability, liberated himself from the fetters of his selfish desires and is preoccupied with thoughts, feelings and aspirations to which he clings because of their super-personal value … regardless of whether any attempt is made to unite this content with a Divine Being, for otherwise it would not be possible to count Buddha and Spinoza as religious personalities. Accordingly a religious person is devout in the sense that he has no doubt of the significance of those super-personal objects and goals which neither require nor are capable of rational foundation … In this sense religion is the age-old endeavour of mankind to become clearly and completely conscious of these values and goals, and constantly to strengthen their effects." He argued that conflicts between science and religion "have all sprung from fatal errors."

loco

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Re: Belief in God 'childish,' Jews not chosen people: Einstein letter
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2008, 10:33:09 AM »
Well you can throw in the Mulims too, they also believe in the God revealed in the Pentatuch but when it comes to salvation

The bible says:

1 John 5:9-12

Sums it up in verse 12 Whoever (Christians) has the Son (Jesus) has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

My question is really this what is the scripture saying in 1 John 5 about the importance of believing in Jesus vice just believing in God (The Father) alone?  

Your original question was: Is it possible to believe in God and not be a Christian?  The answer is yes, you can believe in God and not be a Christian.

Your question now is:  Is it possible to believe in God and not be saved?  According to Jesus, the answer is yes, you can believe in God and still NOT be saved. 

You must believe not only in God, but also in the Son of God to be saved.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."