Author Topic: Supreme Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage  (Read 111672 times)

BayGBM

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #925 on: February 08, 2012, 02:52:45 PM »
Washington State Set to Legalize Same-Sex Marriage
By WILLIAM YARDLEY

SEATTLE — Washington was poised Wednesday to become the seventh state to legalize same-sex marriage, with the State House expected to give final passage and Gov. Christine Gregoire having promised to sign the bill.

The measure easily passed the State Senate last week, 28 to 21, despite concerns that the vote would be close.

The developments in Washington parallel an appeals court decision in California on Tuesday in which a panel of judges ruled 2 to 1 to strike down that state’s ban on same-sex marriage, known as Proposition 8. The two deciding judges wrote that the ban violated the Constitution’s Equal Protection Clause.

Washington is among more than 30 states that have passed laws defining marriage as between a man and a woman, but it has steadily expanded rights for gay couples since 2007. That year, the Democratically controlled Legislature approved domestic partnerships. In 2009, it passed an “everything but marriage” bill. Full marriage rights began speeding toward approval last month, when Ms. Gregoire, a Democrat, announced that she would support the bill to make same-sex marriage legal.

The governor had previously said that she did not believe the state was ready for same-sex marriage and that churches should play a decisive role on the issue. Ms. Gregoire’s marriage bill, modeled after one approved by New York last June, allows churches and religious groups to choose not to perform same-sex marriages and to deny same-sex couples access to their facilities for marriage services.

howardroark

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #926 on: February 08, 2012, 03:21:50 PM »
Incredible.   Why even have fucking elections and referendums?



I'm kinda surprised you're against this, 3333, I thought you'd agree with the notion that 51% cannot vote away the rights of the other 49%...

If the people of the state vote for it...one way or another, the people have spoken. I don't have agree....but it was fair. This shit...voted fairly and overturned by some lib douchbag, gimme a break.

This isn't just another "law." It violates the individual rights of citizens. That would have been OK prior to the 14th Amendment, but state governments are no longer allowed to do that.

Soul Crusher

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #927 on: February 08, 2012, 03:24:50 PM »
I'm kinda surprised you're against this, 3333, I thought you'd agree with the notion that 51% cannot vote away the rights of the other 49%...

This isn't just another "law." It violates the individual rights of citizens. That would have been OK prior to the 14th Amendment, but state governments are no longer allowed to do that.

I personally don't give a damn about this, but I do believe the people have a right to decide what is considered a legal marriage. 

I think the states should decide on it, and if they want the voters to vote on it, fine.   


I don't see gay marriage as a fundamental legal right. 

MCWAY

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #928 on: February 08, 2012, 03:34:11 PM »
I'm kinda surprised you're against this, 3333, I thought you'd agree with the notion that 51% cannot vote away the rights of the other 49%...

This isn't just another "law." It violates the individual rights of citizens. That would have been OK prior to the 14th Amendment, but state governments are no longer allowed to do that.

And what alleged right is being violated (notwithstanding that there was a Supreme Court case that covered this)?

howardroark

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #929 on: February 08, 2012, 03:38:52 PM »
I personally don't give a damn about this, but I do believe the people have a right to decide what is considered a legal marriage. 

I think the states should decide on it, and if they want the voters to vote on it, fine.   


I don't see gay marriage as a fundamental legal right. 

A marriage is a personal contract between two consenting adults... I fail to see how a government ban on this process does NOT violate fundamental individual rights.

howardroark

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #930 on: February 08, 2012, 03:41:56 PM »
And what alleged right is being violated (notwithstanding that there was a Supreme Court case that covered this)?

The right to enter into a contract with a consenting adult...

The very purpose of the Ninth Amendment is to protect far-ranging individual rights from government encroachment: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

tonymctones

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #931 on: February 08, 2012, 03:43:30 PM »
truth hurts sometimes. but in the end [pun intended] people learn and grow as adults.
why did you quote my post when you didnt address anything in it?

I agree though and I hope at the end of your life when you realize youve lived a pointless life you grow ;)

MCWAY

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #932 on: February 08, 2012, 03:44:39 PM »
The right to enter into a contract with a consenting adult...

The very purpose of the Ninth Amendment is to protect far-ranging individual rights from government encroachment: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

Entering a contract is hardly the issue here. When you get a job, you enter a contract with an employer (usually an adult). We are talking about marriage. So, once more, what right is being denied here?

With that said, who said that it has to be A consenting adult...or even an adult for that matter?

Soul Crusher

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #933 on: February 08, 2012, 03:46:56 PM »
 :).   No one is stopping adults from enetering in to those arranagements.   Its all in the label I guess.

tonymctones

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #934 on: February 08, 2012, 03:47:19 PM »
The right to enter into a contract with a consenting adult...

The very purpose of the Ninth Amendment is to protect far-ranging individual rights from government encroachment: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."
they arent being denied rights that any other person is being denied...

marriage is a contract between two ppl of the opposite sex...you forgot the opposite sex part...

if we start changing the definition, where do we stop?

multiple spouses?


howardroark

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #935 on: February 08, 2012, 03:49:35 PM »
Entering a contract is hardly the issue here. When you get a job, you enter a contract with an employer (usually an adult). We are talking about marriage. So, once more, what right is being denied here?

Contracts are the issue here... and yes, the same applies for a contract between you and your employer. A correct interpretation of the Ninth Amendment would greatly limit the government's ability to interfere in the day-to-day lives of Americans.

Quote
With that said, who said that it has to be A consenting adult...or even an adult for that matter?

Rights cannot be had by non-humans. Rights by their very nature exist to dictate actions between individuals, not mindless animals.

MCWAY

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #936 on: February 08, 2012, 03:49:52 PM »
they arent being denied rights that any other person is being denied...

marriage is a contract between two ppl of the opposite sex...you forgot the opposite sex part...

if we start changing the definition, where do we stop?

multiple spouses?



Exactly!! The same arguments that gay "marriage" proponents used are often used by polygamists.

I mean, who are you to say that a man can't love more than one woman? And, if procreation is no longer an issue in marriage (as many gay "marriage" supporters argue), you'd have to legalize incest, too.

howardroark

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #937 on: February 08, 2012, 03:51:18 PM »
they arent being denied rights that any other person is being denied...

marriage is a contract between two ppl of the opposite sex...you forgot the opposite sex part...

if we start changing the definition, where do we stop?

multiple spouses?



EVERY person is denied these rights. It is not up to the government to control the language and define away our rights to enter into a contract with whatever other consenting individual UNLESS that contract violates the rights of a third party.

howardroark

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #938 on: February 08, 2012, 03:52:30 PM »
Exactly!! The same arguments that gay "marriage" proponents used are often used by polygamists.

I mean, who are you to say that a man can't love more than one woman? And, if procreation is no longer an issue in marriage (as many gay "marriage" supporters argue), you'd have to legalize incest, too.

Oh noes! Let's destroy Mormon families because they are exercising their rights! And I thought social conservatives were supposed to be pro-family  ::)

MCWAY

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #939 on: February 08, 2012, 04:02:23 PM »
Oh noes! Let's destroy Mormon families because they are exercising their rights! And I thought social conservatives were supposed to be pro-family  ::)

Mormons, by and large, don't participate in polygamy (i.e. a certain presidental candidate). So, nobody's destroying any families there.

howardroark

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #940 on: February 08, 2012, 04:05:22 PM »
Mormons, by and large, don't participate in polygamy (i.e. a certain presidental candidate). So, nobody's destroying any families there.

You would be destroying the few Mormon families that do engage in polygamy. Are you okay with that? Throwing mothers and fathers in prison and putting their kids in the poorly-run government childcare system?

Soul Crusher

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #941 on: February 08, 2012, 04:07:53 PM »
 :).   Other than formal legal recognition of calling it marriage, gays have the same succession rights, can do wills, health care proxies, make parters benefciaries of iras , insurance, etc.   Gays can share ownership of assets as jtros, etc.  

I really don't see for practical purposes what they are crying about other than the fact that they don't fit within the traditional definition of the term marriage.

tonymctones

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #942 on: February 08, 2012, 04:11:48 PM »
EVERY person is denied these rights. It is not up to the government to control the language and define away our rights to enter into a contract with whatever other consenting individual UNLESS that contract violates the rights of a third party.
so what youre saying is we are all equal in that respect?

thats the govt's job, unless they are defined as a specific class of citizen.

The govt can discriminate as long as they descriminate against all groups and not just one.

I could agree with you if marriage was soley a private institution but it not it involves the govt.

Nobody is keeping these individuals from saying their married, the govt is just not recognizing their marriage.

howardroark

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #943 on: February 08, 2012, 04:22:23 PM »
so what youre saying is we are all equal in that respect?

thats the govt's job, unless they are defined as a specific class of citizen.

The govt can discriminate as long as they descriminate against all groups and not just one.

I could agree with you if marriage was soley a private institution but it not it involves the govt.

Nobody is keeping these individuals from saying their married, the govt is just not recognizing their marriage.

Marriage by its very nature is a private institution! Governmental control of marriage is an invention of Revolutionary France! Conservatives and specifically Roman Catholics were horrified at the notion of government seizing the control of marriage away from individuals.

howardroark

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #944 on: February 08, 2012, 04:25:57 PM »



tonymctones

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #945 on: February 08, 2012, 04:30:55 PM »
Marriage by its very nature is a private institution! Governmental control of marriage is an invention of Revolutionary France! Conservatives and specifically Roman Catholics were horrified at the notion of government seizing the control of marriage away from individuals.
thats fine, maybe your point would be better received if you argued for the govt getting out of the marriage business and not the govt forcing others to accept marriage for something it has never been in this country...

as of right now your point makes no sense.

howardroark

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #946 on: February 08, 2012, 04:33:00 PM »
thats fine, maybe your point would be better received if you argued for the govt getting out of the marriage business and not the govt forcing others to accept marriage for something it has never been in this country...

as of right now your point makes no sense.

I am arguing that point. The government should not be dictating what marriage is at all and is not Constitutionally or morally allowed to prevent consenting individuals from becoming married.

tonymctones

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #947 on: February 08, 2012, 04:38:51 PM »
I am arguing that point. The government should not be dictating what marriage is at all and is not Constitutionally or morally allowed to prevent consenting individuals from becoming married.
and again nobody is preventing them from marrying anybody that anyone else isnt being prevented from marrying.

actually the govt does have the ability to establish laws as long as they do not single out certain groups. what group is being singled out here?

howardroark

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #948 on: February 08, 2012, 04:41:25 PM »
and again nobody is preventing them from marrying anybody that anyone else isnt being prevented from marrying.

actually the govt does have the ability to establish laws as long as they do not single out certain groups. what group is being singled out here?

No, the government is not allowed to violate everyone's rights equally. I am not arguing for the 14th Amendment interpretation of this issue that the court in question used, but a Ninth Amendment interpretation.

tonymctones

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #949 on: February 08, 2012, 04:51:07 PM »
No, the government is not allowed to violate everyone's rights equally. I am not arguing for the 14th Amendment interpretation of this issue that the court in question used, but a Ninth Amendment interpretation.
yes they are allowed to limit our rights, they do it all the time my friend. Yes laws are limits on our rights...

yes they are allowed to create laws that are enforced equally and dont single out classes of citizens

even the 9th ammendment has limits my friend