Supreme Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage

[Dos Equis]

My mind is made up.  Homosexuality has been around since the dawn of time.  It was accepted and practiced as normal during Classical Antiquity.  I don't care how a man or woman lives their lives.  As long as they pursue life, liberty, and happiness in a manner that does not interfere with my own interests, I say live and let live.

This is not a slippery slope argument even though your trying to make it into one.  So the references to infanticide and cannibalism do not belong.

You are the one that called homosexuality an obvious lifestyle choice.

Animals do not create an array of choices on how they should live their lives.

Yet homosexuality does exist in the animal kingdom.

Therefore there must be another explanation other than conscious choice since animals are not capable, for the most part, of framing their existences and choosing a homosexual lifestyle.

I would imagine all sorts of abnormal/unnatural behavior has been around quite a long time.  That really doesn't prove anything. 

Let me ensure I understand you.  Because animals engage in homosexual behavior, that same behavior in humans is therefore "normal"?  But when animals engage in things like infanticide, that same behavior in humans is abnormal/unnatural?

[Straw Man]

I think this might be why you get frustrated Straw Man.  You constantly bring up red herrings, straw men, etc.  (That's why I think you have a great name.)  I didn't say a word about ethics.

Bum - I stopped being frustrated by your simplistic and child-like view of the world a long time ago.   

Animals engage in abnormal/unnatural behavior too. 

Back to your usual semantic horseshit?

Calling something abnormal/unnatural is an ethical judgement based on your own personal standards.   

And no, I have never considered that abnormal/unnatural behavior in animals is a "biological imperative."  The sole purpose of sex in the animal kingdom is propagation of their species.  Animals don't engage in homosexual behavior to survive.    

Wrong again - Animals also engage in sexual activity to express dominance and for pleasure too.   Not unlike humans

[Dos Equis]

Bum - I stopped being frustrated by your simplistic and child-like view of the world a long time ago.   

Back to your usual semantic horseshit?

Calling something abnormal/unnatural is an ethical judgement based on your own personal standards.   

Wrong again - Animals also engage in sexual activity to express dominance and for pleasure too.   Not unlike humans

Listen little man (or woman, whatever the heck you are), why don't you just sit this one out.  You always have trouble following discussions. 

[Decker]

I would imagine all sorts of abnormal/unnatural behavior has been around quite a long time.  That really doesn't prove anything. 

Let me ensure I understand you.  Because animals engage in homosexual behavior, that same behavior in humans is therefore "normal"?  But when animals engage in things like infanticide, that same behavior in humans is abnormal/unnatural?

No, homosexuality was not considered 'abnormal/unnatural' in Classical Antiquity.  It was practiced and accepted.

Is infanticide an 'obvious lifestyle choice' the way you purport homosexuality to be?

[Straw Man]

Listen little man (or woman, whatever the heck you are), why don't you just sit this one out.  You always have trouble following discussions. 

how about you address the argument instead of acting like a little girl with sand in her vagina?

[Dos Equis]

No, homosexuality was not considered 'abnormal/unnatural' in Classical Antiquity.  It was practiced and accepted.

Is infanticide an 'obvious lifestyle choice' the way you purport homosexuality to be?

I'll assume I do understand your position.  It's irreconcilably inconsistent. 

Infanticide is obviously a choice, unless the person is insane.  The fact humans and animals practice infanticide doesn't make the behavior normal/natural in humans.   

[Dos Equis]

how about you address the argument instead of acting like a little girl with sand in her vagina?

   Ah shaddap Bob Marley.  Is this one of those days you occasionally smoke marijuana?  That would explain why you're acting a fool (again). 

[240 is Back]

how about you address the argument instead of acting like a little girl with sand in her vagina?

I'm not so sure Beach bum is acting.

[Decker]

I'll assume I do understand your position.  It's irreconcilably inconsistent. 

Infanticide is obviously a choice, unless the person is insane.  The fact humans and animals practice infanticide doesn't make the behavior normal/natural in humans.   

The fact that both humans and animals practice homosexuality pretty much kills your theory that it's a lifestyle choice.

Unless of course animals are operating on a goal setting/teleological course for self determination of which I am not aware.

[Colossus_500]

The fact that both humans and animals practice homosexuality pretty much kills your theory that it's a lifestyle choice.

Unless of course animals are operating on a goal setting/teleological course self determination of which I am not aware.

There's no evidence that environmental factors (rather than genetic code) play a key role in homosexuals?   

[Hedgehog]

I think we need Bay or another gay person's input on this one.

And Bay, please giv us your honest thoughts, no BS. Just keep it real.

Cuz I'd imagine you would've thought about this one more than any of us.

I mean, is there something psychological, or is it purely biological?

In other words, how does it feel to be gay?

[Decker]

There's no evidence that environmental factors (rather than genetic code) play a key role in homosexuals?   

I don't know what the cause is.  I do know that it is not a lifestyle choice.

[BayGBM]

I think we need Bay or another gay person's input on this one.

And Bay, please giv us your honest thoughts, no BS. Just keep it real.

Cuz I'd imagine you would've thought about this one more than any of us.

I mean, is there something psychological, or is it purely biological?

In other words, how does it feel to be gay?

How does it feel to be straight?  I don't know what you're really asking, but I offered one theory on the 'purpose' of homosexuality here http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=20939.msg2991700#msg2991700

There may not be a single answer to whatever it is you are asking.  Different people have different experiences and perspectives.  Some people do not 'realize' they are gay until very late in life (20's 30's 40's 50s) while other people know it from a very early age.  Haven't you ever observed a kid that was, say, three or four years old and thought to yourself "that kid is going to be gay when he grows up"?  And then he does.  Is that kid making a choice to be gay at 3 years old?  I don't think so.

Despite her parents and conservative environment Mary Cheney grew up to be a lesbian.  Did she choose that?  I don't think so.


Back to the Supreme Court's ruling: issues of civil rights and equality must never be decided by the 'will of the people' or popular opinion because popular opinion is often popular folly.  A majority of people can be easily manipulated (by a good orator, commercials, advertising religion, etc.) into voting for all kinds of nonsense, but the Courts are there to make sure that whatever is voted on by the public or the legislature passes a Constitutional test.  The Constitution demands equal protection under the law for all citizens.  That is a lesson the country had to be reminded of when it came to blacks, women, and now gays and lesbians... there will certainly be another group in the future... 

Even with the Constitution in place there is a higher test: would I want to be treated that way?  The fundamental principal of equality is what this is about.  The reality is not everyone believes in equality.  History tells us that has always been true; perhaps it always will be. 

[Straw Man]

  Ah shaddap Bob Marley.  Is this one of those days you occasionally smoke marijuana?  That would explain why you're acting a fool (again). 

If nothing else, I  commend your self-discipline for waiting so long before starting your usual ad-hominen bullshit.

[calmus]

Hahhaha. Gramps can melt all day long (actually he's been melting for two days now), but the gay marriage cat is out of the bag.   

[Dos Equis]

The fact that both humans and animals practice homosexuality pretty much kills your theory that it's a lifestyle choice.

Unless of course animals are operating on a goal setting/teleological course for self determination of which I am not aware.

The fact that both humans and animals practice infanticide pretty much makes your theory that animal behavior normalizes human behavior patently absurd. 

The connection doesn't work Decker. 

[Dos Equis]

If nothing else, I  commend your self-discipline for waiting so long before starting your usual ad-hominen bullshit.

Oh boo hoo.  Quit crying.  Man up already.   

[Straw Man]

Oh boo hoo.  Quit crying.  Man up already.   

Who's crying?

You're the one that melted down about 5 posts ago

[Colossus_500]

I don't know what the cause is.  I do know that it is not a lifestyle choice.

If you don't know what the cause is, then how is it you are so certan it is NOT a lifestyle choice? 

[calmus]

If you don't know what the cause is, then how is it you are so certan it is NOT a lifestyle choice? 

So what if it's a lifestyle choice? 

[OzmO]

If you don't know what the cause is, then how is it you are so certan it is NOT a lifestyle choice? 

Logic works for me.

I've always wondered why someone would "choose" to do something that would make their skin crawl or not give them pleasure.

Sex with a woman for a man that's truly homosexual must be as revolting as sex with a man for a man who is heterosexual.

[Dos Equis]

If you don't know what the cause is, then how is it you are so certan it is NOT a lifestyle choice? 

Ding! 

[Straw Man]

Ding! 

Is that the sound you hear in your hollow skull?

Who the fuck cares either way?

Seriously

WHY DOES IT MATTER?

[War-Horse]

Humans "Being created by God" have a responsibility to act within moral guidlines of what the creator states in the scriptures.
I realize that there are disturbing things (In the scriptures)  that were allowed under some circumstances, but that doesnt mean it was "Condoned"

As sinners we have animal desires at times but we are to fight and put ourselves above this.


Now in my opinion....I think alot of gays are born this way......i had a friend who explained what torture it was for him to be attracted to females (No he wasnt coming on to me)  he said if i told you right now that you had to start being attracted to men tomorrow, that society demanded it, how would you feel??

This made alot of sense to me and how do you explain some guys who are effiminite talkers and some girl jocks that could clean your clock.??

Even in Bodybuilding we realize hormone levels come in all different levels...some guys gain easy and some dont......

That said God, loves all of his children and will give them the strength.  Im not worth one plug nickel more than any other human on this planet..(gay or not).......Each of us has different challenges to overcome.

[calmus]

Humans "Being created by God" have a responsibility to act within moral guidlines of what the creator states in the scriptures.
I realize that there are disturbing things (In the scriptures)  that were allowed under some circumstances, but that doesnt mean it was "Condoned"

As sinners we have animal desires at times but we are to fight and put ourselves above this.


Now in my opinion....I think alot of gays are born this way......i had a friend who explained what torture it was for him to be attracted to females (No he wasnt coming on to me)   he said if i told you right now that you had to start being attracted to men tomorrow, that society demanded it, how would you feel??

This made alot of sense to me and how do you explain some guys who are effiminite talkers and some girl jocks that could clean your clock.??

Even in Bodybuilding we realize hormone levels come in all different levels...some guys gain easy and some dont......

That said God, loves all of his children and will give them the strength.  Im not worth one plug nickel more than any other human on this planet..(gay or not).......Each of us has different challenges to overcome.

Good post. 

And what if God created you with both sets of genitalia?  Should you consult a priest/pastor about whether God wanted you to be of male or female gender? Or should you just let the doctor play God as they used to in the past?