Author Topic: Supreme Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage  (Read 112820 times)

BayGBM

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #150 on: May 21, 2008, 11:31:28 AM »
I've heard the "activist judges circumventing the will of the people" argument too many times, and I've had enough. Sadly, in American history there have been all too many cases when the will of the people was narrow-minded, ignorant, and exclusionary. Mildred Loving, of Loving v. Virginia, also apealed to the justice system to pave the way for legalizing interracial marriage - which her state outlawed. I can't imagine anyone suggesting that Ms. Loving should have allowed the citizens of Virginia to vote to abolish their legislatively-approved Racial Integrity Act, or that Chief Justice Warren was an "activist judge" who circumvented the will of the people.

— Leah, Boston

BayGBM

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #151 on: May 21, 2008, 11:35:23 AM »
As a straight man, happily married with children, the decision by the California court to allow gay and lesbian individuals comes as a heartening affirmation of basic human rights. How come VP Dick Cheney doesn't express his views on the subject? The dishonesty and hypocrisy is appalling...

— JH, NY

Dos Equis

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #152 on: May 21, 2008, 11:39:23 AM »
"The Wall Street Journal's Law Blog fills us in on the background as well as offering up this little nugget of information:

But here’s a catch: Even if the court votes to overturn the appellate court ruling and invalidate the 1977 law, the ruling might not stick. “Pro-family” organizations have submitted more than 1.1 million signatures for an initiative that would amend the state Constitution to outlaw same-sex marriage. If at least 694,354 signatures are found to be valid, the measure would go on the November ballot and, if approved by voters, would override any court ruling in favor of same-sex marriage."


youandme

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #153 on: May 21, 2008, 12:01:33 PM »
Liberty (where it exists) is defended by traditions and customs as well as by statutes. If anything, its most effective defense depends more on the former than the later. The greater the freedom, the greater the need for strong beliefs and customs to hold that freedom in socially useful channels.

-Edmund Burke-

24KT

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #154 on: May 21, 2008, 02:59:44 PM »
Fortunately, Justice George on the CA Supreme Court disagrees with you.  It’s not a coincidence that a 68 year old judge who saw Jim Crow as a child invoked memories of that inequality in crafting his decision in the present case.

As has been said previously, the principle of equality enshrined in the Constitution is not (and must never be) subject to popular vote.  Alexis de Tocqueville observed in 1835, the ‘tyranny of the majority’ must always be checked by the courts.  Critics who decry ‘activist judges’ don’t appear to understand how American law works: the democratically expressed will of the people is always subject to judicial review for Constitutionality. Not only are Judges not abusing their power, this is exactly what their power is for!  I don't have to "stifle and silence millions on an everyday basis."  The courts have effectively done that and they will continue to do so as long as they are charged with ensuring equal justice under law.

I can perfectly understand why conservatives are so upset by this ruling though.  It is further proof that their philosophy is being consigned to history’s dustbin of bigotry.  No one likes to admit their increasing irrelevance.  I don’t suppose many people here have read the many pro-slavery arguments articulated throughout the first half the 19th century.  I have.  You all sound remarkably similar and equally irrelevant.

As for keeping homosexuality in the dark and secret recess of society, people like you used to say the same thing about the disabled (but that’s a whole other subject).  Fortunately, you don’t get to decide these things.

The future is about equality--in all its forms--for everyone; your philosophy has no place there.  Ta ta  :-*



I can't add any more to this. Very Well said! Bravo!
w

BayGBM

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #155 on: May 22, 2008, 10:10:02 PM »
Californians narrowly reject gay marriage, poll finds
Voters also back a proposed constitutional amendment to ban same-sex unions, a new Times/KTLA survey shows.
By Cathleen Decker
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

May 23, 2008

By bare majorities, Californians reject the state Supreme Court's decision to allow same-sex marriages and back a proposed constitutional amendment aimed at the November ballot that would outlaw such unions, a Los Angeles Times/KTLA Poll has found.

But the survey also suggested that the state is moving closer to accepting nontraditional marriages, which could create openings for supporters of same-sex marriage as the campaign unfolds.

More than half of Californians said gay relationships were not morally wrong, that they would not degrade heterosexual marriages and that all that mattered was that a relationship be loving and committed, regardless of gender.

Overall, the proportion of Californians who back either gay marriage or civil unions for same-sex couples has remained fairly constant over the years. But the generational schism is pronounced. Those under 45 were less likely to favor a constitutional amendment than their elders and were more supportive of the court's decision to overturn the state's current ban on gay marriage. They also disagreed more strongly than their elders with the notion that gay relationships threatened traditional marriage.

The results of the survey set up an intriguing question for the fall campaign: Will the younger, more live-and-let-live voters mobilized by likely Democratic nominee Barack Obama doom the gay marriage ban? Or will conservatives drawn to the polls by the amendment boost the odds for the presumptive Republican nominee, John McCain?

Either way, the poll suggests the outcome of the proposed amendment is far from certain. Overall, it was leading 54% to 35% among registered voters. But because ballot measures on controversial topics often lose support during the course of a campaign, strategists typically want to start out well above the 50% support level.

"Although the amendment to reinstate the ban on same-sex marriage is winning by a small majority, this may not bode well for the measure," said Times Poll director Susan Pinkus.

The politically volatile issue leaped into the forefront last week after the court made its judgment in a case that stemmed from San Francisco's unsuccessful effort in 2004 to allow gay marriage in the city. The court's decision, on a 4-3 vote by judges largely appointed by Republican governors, came eight years after Californians overwhelmingly banned gay marriage through a ballot measure, Proposition 22.

The court's verdict threw the issue forward until November, when Californians are expected to be asked to amend the state Constitution to prohibit gay marriage. An affirmative vote on the amendment would reinstate the ban and lead to more litigation over the issue.

Before the court took action, opponents of same-sex marriage already had submitted more than 1 million signatures to the secretary of state's office to put the matter on the November ballot. Secretary of State Debra Bowen has said she will determine its fate by mid-June, but the backers are believed to have collected enough signatures to qualify.

Asking for a delay

Thursday, supporters of the proposed amendment asked the court to place its decision on hold until after the election. Failure to do so "risks legal havoc and uncertainty," lawyers for the Proposition 22 Legal Defense and Education Fund argued, noting that same-sex marriages entered into between now and November would be under a legal cloud if voters approved the ban. Court experts, however, say it is unlikely the justices would agree to such a lengthy delay in implementing their ruling.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who has vetoed two bills sanctioning gay marriage, has said that he respects the court's decision and that he will not support a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage. Californians were split on his stance, with 45% agreeing and 46% disagreeing.

The governor, who in his nearly five years in office has often butted heads with his GOP colleagues, was once again on the opposite side of most in his party: Nearly 7 in 10 Republicans disagreed with his views on the court decision and the amendment.

Becky Espinoza of Kerman, an agricultural town west of Fresno, said that if the amendment made the ballot, she would vote for it. But she acknowledged some ambivalence about the matter coming before voters at all.

"I just don't believe a man and a man should be married," said the 57-year-old Republican. "How can I put this -- it's just not right. I was brought up very old-fashioned."

Even within her own family, however, there are differences of opinion. A younger daughter, she said, feels "there's nothing wrong with that."

"To kids nowadays, it's like 'Oh well.' Maybe it is 'Oh well.' They see it. We didn't see it. It was one of those in-the-closet things."

On the opposite side is Lena Neal of Perris, who said she supported the court's decision and would vote against an amendment. Neal, a Democrat, based her views on the experiences of an elderly family member, who she said was part of a decades-long same-sex partnership. When one of them entered the hospital, she said, the other was not allowed to visit -- that benefit was restricted to family members.

"It's their right," she said of gay marriage. "They're humans."

Indeed, the poll found that views on gay marriage were greatly influenced by personal connections. Of those who said they knew a friend, a family member or a co-worker who was gay, nearly half approved of the court's ruling -- more than twice the proportion among those who said they were not acquainted with a gay person.

The divide was as stark when it came to the proposed constitutional amendment: 70% of voters who said they did not know a gay person would vote for it, a position taken by just 49% of voters who said they knew a gay person.

The poll, under Pinkus' direction, interviewed 834 Californians, including 705 registered voters, on Tuesday and Wednesday. The margin of sampling error is 3 percentage points in either direction overall and 4 points for registered voters. Margins were larger for demographic subgroups.

The poll found the state polarized when it came to gay marriage. In most surveys, majority views are somewhat ambivalent -- but on this issue they were sharply drawn. More than 4 in 10 Californians said they strongly disapproved of the court's decision, while almost 3 in 10 strongly approved. Smaller groups described their views as lukewarm.

Generally, the poll found consistency between views on the court decision and the proposed amendment. Overall, Californians opposed the court's view by a 52%-41% gap. The strongest opposition came from Republicans and self-described conservatives. Married respondents, those without college degrees, senior citizens, white evangelical Christians and those in suburban Southern California were also strongly opposed.

Those same groups were also among the strongest backers of the proposed amendment.

Most supportive of the court decision were liberals -- more than 7 in 10 of whom favored the ruling -- Democratic men and Democratic women, whites with college degrees and Bay Area residents.

Majority support -- if barely -- came from the two political groups whose backing generally spells success in California: The state's largest party, Democrats, backed it by a 55%-39% margin, and the fastest-growing political group, independents, supported it 51% to 40%.

Yet support for the ruling did not necessarily lead to opposition to the proposed constitutional amendment, and vice versa. Democrats and independents narrowly backed the amendment despite their support for the court action. Democratic men favored the ruling but were split on the amendment. Democratic women, meanwhile, approved of both the court decision and the amendment.

Effect on the election?

The interaction between the amendment and the presidential election is difficult to divine six months from election day. Among the reasons is that the court put itself at odds with the candidates -- neither Democratic Sens. Hillary Clinton of New York and Obama of Illinois, nor Republican McCain, a senator from Arizona, has backed gay marriage. All have sided instead with civil unions that would ensure benefits for same-sex partners.

For the candidates, the confluence of the gay marriage issue and the presidential election represents risk. For the Democratic nominee, the party's traditional allegiance with the gay community could lead to pressure on the candidate to embrace gay marriage -- perhaps alienating more moderate voters here and elsewhere.

McCain, meanwhile, will be pinched between the party's religious base, which is strongly in favor of the amendment, and the independent voters who generally recoil from social issue battles but whom McCain needs in order to win.

Some leeway

The poll suggested that the candidates may have a little leeway: Only 1 in 4 registered voters said they would vote only for a candidate who agreed with their own position on marriage. Almost 6 in 10 said they could vote for a candidate with whom they disagreed -- suggesting that the issue was far from the top of most voters' agendas.

Responding to a separate question, only 10% of registered voters said that gay marriage was the most important issue facing the state, although more than 5 in 10 voters characterized it as important, just not the most important. Another third of voters said it was not important at all.

Among those who felt it was the most important, more than 6 in 10 were conservatives or those who consider themselves part of the Republican religious base. They were overwhelmingly voting for McCain, the poll found.

But those who felt it was either not important, or not the most important issue facing California, were siding with a Democratic candidate over McCain.


Benny B

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #156 on: May 23, 2008, 12:13:07 AM »
Sorry, but having f@gs marry is an abomination. America's road to Sodom and Gomorrah is moving forward rapidly.
 
Thankfully, none of the current presidential candidates approve of this ridiculous bullshit.
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BayGBM

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #157 on: May 23, 2008, 06:35:00 AM »
Sorry, but having f@gs marry is an abomination. America's road to Sodom and Gomorrah is moving forward rapidly.
 
Thankfully, none of the current presidential candidates approve of this ridiculous bullshit.

Do you think interracial marriage is an abomination?

The people who are quick to condemn gay marriage are the very ones committing adultery and falling in and out of marriage, divorce, marriage, divorce.  Traditional marriage is in trouble but that is because of your behavior--not mine.

Colossus_500

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #158 on: May 23, 2008, 06:54:43 AM »
Do you think interracial marriage is an abomination?

The people who are quick to condemn gay marriage are the very ones committing adultery and falling in and out of marriage, divorce, marriage, divorce.  Traditional marriage is in trouble but that is because of your behavior--not mine.
It's not the same.  I did not choose to be black, just as my wife did not choose to be white.  It's not a civil rights issue.  Not by a long shot.  I know that's what the gay community likes to base their argument on, but I have to respectfully disagree, BayGBM.   Nowhere near the same ballpark, in my opinion.

Benny B

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #159 on: May 23, 2008, 07:22:44 AM »
It's not the same.  I did not choose to be black, just as my wife did not choose to be white.  It's not a civil rights issues.  Not by a long shot.  I know that's what the gay community likes to base their argument on, but I have to respectfully disagree, BayGBM.   Nowhere near the same ballpark, in my opinion.
Thank you.  :)
I could elaborate, but you've expressed my general sentiment.
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BayGBM

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #160 on: May 23, 2008, 07:54:38 AM »
It's not the same.  I did not choose to be black, just as my wife did not choose to be white.  It's not a civil rights issue.  Not by a long shot.  I know that's what the gay community likes to base their argument on, but I have to respectfully disagree, BayGBM.   Nowhere near the same ballpark, in my opinion.

Funny you should say that because Mildred Loving, the black plaintiff in the case of Loving vs. Virginia (1967) which overturned the ban on interracial marriage thought it was a civil rights issue (as did Coretta Scott King); she was a big proponent of gay marriage.  She passed away earlier this month.

It is obvious you did not choose to be black and should not be denied any rights associatedd with that.  I did not choose to be gay and don’t believe any gay person should be denied any rights associated with that either.

But this case does not depend on analogies, similar precedents, or the endorsement of third parties.  It turns on the question of equality:  do you believe people should be treated equally?  You say 'no' but the Constitution says “yes.”  In 1967 the U.S. Supreme Court said “yes” (and you especially should be glad they did).  In 2008 the CA Supreme Court said “yes.”

Critics of this case say the California Supreme Court is out of bounds for overturning the ‘will of the people’ but unfortunately the will of the people is often wrong.  If equality depended on a popular vote you and your wife could not be married, and you most certainly would not have access to the education you have made possible by Brown v. Board of Education (1954).  It would appear that you value equality only to the extent that it benefits you; that his heartbreaking.  There were many white people agitating for black civil rights in the 50’s and 60’s and long before.  They didn’t have to be there, but they were...

I believe in equality for all people; you do not.  Sadly, that is where we part company.  :'(


Benny B

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #161 on: May 23, 2008, 08:51:02 AM »
Funny you should say that because Mildred Loving, the black plaintiff in the case of Loving vs. Virginia (1967) which overturned the ban on interracial marriage thought it was a civil rights issue (as did Coretta Scott King); she was a big proponent of gay marriage.  She passed away earlier this month.

It is obvious you did not choose to be black and should not be denied any rights associatedd with that.  I did not choose to be gay and don’t believe any gay person should be denied any rights associated with that either.

But this case does not depend on analogies, similar precedents, or the endorsement of third parties.  It turns on the question of equality:  do you believe people should be treated equally?  You say 'no' but the Constitution says “yes.”  In 1967 the U.S. Supreme Court said “yes” (and you especially should be glad they did).  In 2008 the CA Supreme Court said “yes.”

Critics of this case say the California Supreme Court is out of bounds for overturning the ‘will of the people’ but unfortunately the will of the people is often wrong.  If equality depended on a popular vote you and your wife could not be married, and you most certainly would not have access to the education you have made possible by Brown v. Board of Education (1954).  It would appear that you value equality only to the extent that it benefits you; that his heartbreaking.  There were many white people agitating for black civil rights in the 50’s and 60’s and long before.  They didn’t have to be there, but they were...

I believe in equality for all people; you do not.  Sadly, that is where we part company.  :'(


Race is an artificial creation that did not even exist until modern times. In America it was initially a term to delineate people as a way of justifying physical enslavement of a specific group, the stealing of the land of others, and to preserve the sanctity of white womanhood by fearful white males.

Is Obama in an "interracial" marriage to Michelle Obama since half of his family members are white? Would he be in an interracial marriage if he were married to Cindy McCain? hmmmm...

Whereas racial distinctions are arbitrary, there has never been any doubt on what constitutes a man and what constitutes a woman. Neither has there ever been any confusion on what two genders need to mate in order for procreation to take place.

Comparing "race" to giving sanction to sexually perverse activities and behaviors is insulting to the "human" race.

If Steve and Mike want to express their love and gain some legal rights entitled to married men and women, pursue the legal avenue of civil union. Marriage is for a man and a woman. May lightning strike any church that would sanction a marriage between Sally and Mary or Steve in Mike under God.
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BayGBM

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #162 on: May 23, 2008, 09:32:50 AM »
I could care less what “churches” do or don’t do.  As far as I’m concerned they have no moral authority.  The Catholic Church has committed wholesale murder on direct order from ‘his holiness’.  Look up the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre, for example.  For a long time the Church turned its back on the Holocaust…

In America various denominations of “the church” (Catholic, Protestant, etc.) sanctioned slavery and murder; even into the 20th century it was common to attend church on Sunday morning and lynchings on Sunday afternoons.  In our own time, we have priests in the church molesting young men and women and instead of holding them accountable leaders in the church simply move them to other parishes where they can prey on other victims…

All I care about is equal justice under the law.  For all people.  The Constitutions guarantees that and the Courts enable it.  I think I speak for most gay people when I say that gay marriage has nothing to do with the church.  Rather it is about the extending of rights that heterosexual couples enjoy to gay couples who choose to get married.

For those of you whom do care about “the church” if lightening didn’t strike over the church’s endorsement of murder, slavery, lynching, or molestation, I wouldn’t hold my breath for it to strike over sanctioning a gay wedding. ::)


BayGBM

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #163 on: May 23, 2008, 09:34:06 AM »
As Justice Kennard correctly observed: "the constitutionality of the marriage laws' exlcusion of same-sex couples is an issue particularly appropriate for decision by this court, rather than a social or political issue inappropriate for judicial consideration...the architects of our federal and state Constitutions understood that widespread and deeply rooted prejudices may lead majoritarian institutions to deny fundamental freedoms to unpopular minority groups, and that the most effective remedy for this form of oppression is an independent judiciary charged with the solemn responsibility to interpret and enforce the Constitutional provisions guaranteeing fundamental freedoms and equal protection."

Simply put, if the courts do not stand up for despised or unpopular minorities against the tyranny of oppressive majorities, than who else will? Certainly not an electorate, that if given the chance would have voted to maintain segregation of schools and bans on inter-racial marriage.


— RWB, San Francisco, CA

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #164 on: May 23, 2008, 09:42:27 AM »
Meh, marriage is a primitive and outdated religious instituition; the only reason gays want in on it is because of the entitlements...take away the entitlements and most heterosexuals would lose interest in the thing.
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Benny B

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #165 on: May 23, 2008, 09:49:37 AM »
Of course you don't care about the church, because it condemns you for your immoral lifestyle. You don't like to be told that plowing another man in the anus is a sin before God, so you seek to avoid it so you can do whatever feels good.

Marriages are typically presided by ministers and administered in houses of worship. Hence my mention of the church. If you don't agree with any organized religion and don't believe in God, take your gay ass to a courthouse and file for a civil union.  >:(

I could care less what “churches” do or don’t do.  As far as I’m concerned they have no moral authority.  The Catholic Church has committed wholesale murder on direct order from ‘his holiness’.  Look up the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre, for example.  For a long time the Church turned its back on the Holocaust…

In America various denominations of “the church” (Catholic, Protestant, etc.) sanctioned slavery and murder; even into the 20th century it was common to attend church on Sunday morning and lynchings on Sunday afternoons.  In our own time, we have priests in the church molesting young men and women and instead of holding them accountable leaders in the church simply move them to other parishes where they can prey on other victims…

All I care about is equal justice under the law.  For all people.  The Constitutions guarantees that and the Courts enable it.  I think I speak for most gay people when I say that gay marriage has nothing to do with the church.  Rather it is about the extending of rights that heterosexual couples enjoy to gay couples who choose to get married.

For those of you whom do care about “the church” if lightening didn’t strike over the church’s endorsement of murder, slavery, lynching, or molestation, I wouldn’t hold my breath for it to strike over sanctioning a gay wedding. ::)


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columbusdude82

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #166 on: May 23, 2008, 09:50:40 AM »
BayGBM, you filthy hell-bound sinner, the Word of God says very clearly that fagg0+s and other less-than-human apes must not be allowed to marry.

Why do you insist on demeaning the Word of the one and only Living God and forcing your wicked filthy fagg0+ry on our good Christian nation? ???

BayGBM

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #167 on: May 23, 2008, 09:56:54 AM »
The church lost its moral authority long before I came along and certainly before I realized I was gay.  In fact, even if gay people didn’t exist the church would still be morally bankrupt.

Maybe you can embrace an institution that enabled the subjugation of women, the Bartholomew Massacre, slavery, the Holocaust, and widespread molestation.  I can’t.

So yes, I’ll take my gay ass to the justice of the peace or another civil authority and sign my marriage license.


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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #168 on: May 23, 2008, 06:29:56 PM »
Of course you don't care about the church, because it condemns you for your immoral lifestyle. You don't like to be told that plowing another man in the anus is a sin before God, so you seek to avoid it so you can do whatever feels good.

Marriages are typically presided by ministers and administered in houses of worship. Hence my mention of the church. If you don't agree with any organized religion and don't believe in God, take your gay ass to a courthouse and file for a civil union.  >:(


What about blowing your load on a women's face or sticking your cock in a woman's anus or jamming your cock so far down her mouth she chokes....are these 'sins' before god?
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Camel Jockey

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #169 on: May 23, 2008, 06:36:24 PM »
Of course you don't care about the church, because it condemns you for your immoral lifestyle. You don't like to be told that plowing another man in the anus is a sin before God, so you seek to avoid it so you can do whatever feels good.

Marriages are typically presided by ministers and administered in houses of worship. Hence my mention of the church. If you don't agree with any organized religion and don't believe in God, take your gay ass to a courthouse and file for a civil union.  >:(


Shut it Benny Negr0

Just because it's indecent to you doesn't mean others should be denied the same freedom.

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #170 on: May 23, 2008, 06:57:49 PM »
Shut it Benny Negr0

Just because it's indecent to you doesn't mean others should be denied the same freedom.

Word to big bird.
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BayGBM

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #171 on: May 23, 2008, 07:35:08 PM »
As we know all too well, people who quote the Bible, reference scripture, and teachings of “the church” are the worst sinners of all: I do not share your psycho-spiritual beliefs so its tenets are really nothing to me, but those of you whom love to invoke it routinely violate the teachings of your own faith.

How bizarre that you would expect a nonbeliever to follow your psycho-spiritual beliefs when you cannot do so yourself.  It is you who are damned.  :-[

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #172 on: May 23, 2008, 08:28:08 PM »
As we know all too well, people who quote the Bible, reference scripture, and teachings of “the church” are the worst sinners of all: I do not share your psycho-spiritual beliefs so its tenets are really nothing to me, but those of you whom love to invoke it routinely violate the teachings of your own faith.

How bizarre that you would expect a nonbeliever to follow your psycho-spiritual beliefs when you cannot do so yourself.  It is you who are damned.  :-[

Who, not whom; who is a subject, whom is the object as far as relative pronouns go.

They are not violating their beliefs; they are following them to a T.

I do have one question and it is one I also ask heterosexual men who like sticking their cocks in women's anuses; what is the appeal? When I think about it all I can think of is smelly, brown fecal matter. I can't conjure up the slightest sexual thought with regards to an asshole. Why men like to stick their dicks in anuses (women's or other men's) is beyond me. I don't care if people do it, it doesn't affect me in any way, shape or form except when nice vaginal penetration porn turns into anal (a big turn off to me) but please explain to me what it is about the asshole that makes so many men want to stick their dicks in them.
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Dos Equis

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #173 on: May 23, 2008, 11:57:00 PM »
It's not the same.  I did not choose to be black, just as my wife did not choose to be white.  It's not a civil rights issue.  Not by a long shot.  I know that's what the gay community likes to base their argument on, but I have to respectfully disagree, BayGBM.   Nowhere near the same ballpark, in my opinion.

Well said Colossus. 

Also, what people should keep in mind is this isn't just about homosexual marriage.  It's about redefining gender.  For example, for the past several years people have tried to push a "gender identity" bill through the legislature that redefines gender to mean whatever a person wants it to be, on whatever day they want.  It's already in our statutes regarding housing and hate crimes.  Just a matter of time before it is imposed in the workplace.

calmus

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Re: California Court Affirms Right to Gay Marriage
« Reply #174 on: May 24, 2008, 12:00:10 AM »
Well said Colossus. 

Also, what people should keep in mind is this isn't just about homosexual marriage.  It's about redefining gender.  For example, for the past several years people have tried to push a "gender identity" bill through the legislature that redefines gender to mean whatever a person wants it to be, on whatever day they want.  It's already in our statutes regarding housing and hate crimes.  Just a matter of time before it is imposed in the workplace.

Oh my! How terrible!  What is the world coming to?!? They'll be wanting to rape the Lord's angels next.