US soldier refuses to serve in 'illegal Iraq war'

[Dos Equis]

Polls have been shown to be a bunch of bull...The best evidence is from Iraqis themselves, in their own words....I did not have to be exact to say Iraqis living in Iraq, thats a given....American Iraqis are not in the thick of things and don't see dead kids and mothers as they walk down their neighborhood block...

Who conducts these so called polls BeachBum? Why should i look at a poll, when you could find a video of one, just one Iraqi that supports the war?

Oh you could find videos of Iraqis supporting the toppling of Hussein right after the war...They were shouting in the streets showing their love for americans...Problem is they did not find their freedom, because the troops did not leave...Today every Iraqi you would talk too knows some friend, or some family member that has been killed as the result of our troops over there....So chances are you'r not going to find a friendly Iraqi for the cause of occupying Iraq....

You invented a conclusion (not one Iraqi supports the war) and then challenged anyone to disprove it.  I've given you two examples now.    

I'll turn this around:  what proof do you have that not one Iraqi supports the war?  Is that just your opinion?  

[Dos Equis]

I was not stating a fact, all i asked was for proof, for which you have not provided....

Sounds like a purported factual statement to me:

I gaurentee you will not find one official from the patsy govt that is for our troops being over there...

[OzmO]

I was not stating a fact, all i asked was for proof, for which you have not provided....

Back peddle.

Proof?  Proof is the obvious.  There are some that support.

Proof is the obvious.  There are many that don't (daily death & Violence).


Aside from that, only an Idiot Iraqi would himself on a video supporting the war.  Because that would seal his coffin. 

[OzmO]

Sounds like a purported factual statement to me:

Back Peddle

[OzmO]

You invented a conclusion (not one Iraqi supports the war) and then challenged anyone to disprove it.  I've given you two examples now.   

I'll turn this around:  what proof do you have that not one Iraqi supports the war?  Is that just your opinion? 

He's talked with EVERY Iraqi.

[bebop396]

[bebop396]

The only ones backpeddling is you OZMO, and BeachBum....What i asked you to do was not impossible, I just told you to find one Iraqi...You in turn, out of frustration ask me to talk to EVERY Iraqi...That is absurd...

[bebop396]

You invented a conclusion (not one Iraqi supports the war) and then challenged anyone to disprove it.  I've given you two examples now.    

I'll turn this around:  what proof do you have that not one Iraqi supports the war?  Is that just your opinion?  

Where in my post that I stated to provide proof by an American Iraqi? You do not seriously believe that is proof do you?

[Dos Equis]

He's talked with EVERY Iraqi.

Undoubtedly.  

[TerminalPower]

This guy should be jailed or shot by firing squad.  If this war was Illegal then the War Tribunal or UN Appeaser's would have declared it so.

[bebop396]

Well thanks for the lively debate, would love to sit here all day and go back and forth, but I have to take off for now, take care...

[Dos Equis]

Well thanks for the lively debate, would love to sit here all day and go back and forth, but I have to take off for now, take care...

Adios.   

[OzmO]

The only ones backpeddling is you OZMO, and BeachBum....What i asked you to do was not impossible, I just told you to find one Iraqi...You in turn, out of frustration ask me to talk to EVERY Iraqi...That is absurd...

You are the one that said all if not most are against the war and then said something about posting a video, which is stupid, becuase that would end up being a death for an Iraqi to do that.

And you said:

I gaurentee you will not find one official from the patsy govt that is for our troops being over there...

and then:

Tried to discredit polls.

so now i ask you:  Have you conducted you own poll or have you talked to every Iraqi?

Because if you haven't you are talking straight out your ass.

[OzmO]

Well thanks for the lively debate, would love to sit here all day and go back and forth, but I have to take off for now, take care...

back peddle.........


wish i could find a video of a back peddler.   

Have a nice day.

BTW  i am very much against the war.  I'm just not living in fantasy land.

[bebop396]

Wife wanted double cheeseburgers from mcds...That place sucks monkey balls....

Lets just say Iraq freed us from our dictator Pres. Bush and decided after, to police our streets, build a huge embassy, the largest in the world, and call our nation a terrorist nation....Meanwhile the tragedies of the Iraqi occupation was paved with blood of innocent americans...Would you find a American in support of the Iraqi occupation? Oh yeah, Iraqi Americans would sit on their fat asses and say that what Iraq is doing is noble and freeing us from an evil dictator is all that matters...

[OzmO]

Wife wanted double cheeseburgers from mcds...That place sucks monkey balls....

Lets just say Iraq freed us from our dictator Pres. Bush and decided after, to police our streets, build a huge embassy, the largest in the world, and call our nation a terrorist nation....Meanwhile the tragedies of the Iraqi occupation was paved with blood of innocent americans...Would you find a American in support of the Iraqi occupation? Oh yeah, Iraqi Americans would sit on their fat asses and say that what Iraq is doing is noble and freeing us from an evil dictator is all that matters...

You would.

There were plenty of people who supported the German occupation of France.

I'm not denying that many if not most want the USA out or would prefer them out.   All I'm saying is there are Iraqis who are prospering one way or another with America and believe in the "democracy" we are selling. 

BTW:   Watch "Super-Size Me".   You might never want Micky-Dee's Again.

[bebop396]

You would.

There were plenty of people who supported the German occupation of France.

I'm not denying that many if not most want the USA out or would prefer them out.   All I'm saying is there are Iraqis who are prospering one way or another with America and believe in the "democracy" we are selling. 

BTW:   Watch "Super-Size Me".   You might never want Micky-Dee's Again.

Honestly, that makes sense...Those making profits from the occupation surely like what is going on....

[OzmO]

Honestly, that makes sense...Those making profits from the occupation surely like what is going on....

And if you think about it what does anyone in any country want?   They just want to be able to prosper, have basic freedoms, have some say in government, have equal opportunities and have their families be safe.  And most, deep down don't really care what that life comes disguised as:  Democracy or otherwise.

[bebop396]

And if you think about it what does anyone in any country want?   They just want to be able to prosper, have basic freedoms, have some say in government, have equal opportunities and have their families be safe.  And most, deep down don't really care what that life comes disguised as:  Democracy or otherwise.

What are you really saying?

[OzmO]

What are you really saying?

I'm just saying, that's all people really want.  The rest is fluff.  If i was an Iraqi, that's all I'd really want.  Here in the USA, we take that for granted and as a result we get all worked up over shit like "Spy-gate and steroids"  I've lived in a third world country under Marshall law, that was 30 years ago, now it's a 2nd world country.  But the fact remains, at the core, we just want to live our lives and raise our families  with freedoms, equal rights, opportunity, safety, etc...

[bebop396]

I'm just saying, that's all people really want.  The rest is fluff.  If i was an Iraqi, that's all I'd really want.  Here in the USA, we take that for granted and as a result we get all worked up over shit like "Spy-gate and steroids"  I've lived in a third world country under Marshall law, that was 30 years ago, now it's a 2nd world country.  But the fact remains, at the core, we just want to live our lives and raise our families  with freedoms, equal rights, opportunity, safety, etc...

OH ok, i thought you were saying loosely that a firm democracy is not really needed, just safety and relative freedom....

A free market economy is not conducive to a free society wanting the same freedoms as anyone else it seems...The millions in our society working on min wage, isnt ideal for personal freedom is it....

In a supposed democracy, the majority has the say on what goes...Well, the majority of americans have sucky jobs that pay crap...So where is the representation for all of them? Even the ones that get paid well, are so far in debt that their freedom is also limited....

[OzmO]

OH ok, i thought you were saying loosely that a firm democracy is not really needed, just safety and relative freedom....

A free market economy is not conducive to a free society wanting the same freedoms as anyone else it seems...The millions in our society working on min wage, isnt ideal for personal freedom is it....

In a supposed democracy, the majority has the say on what goes...Well, the majority of americans have sucky jobs that pay crap...So where is the representation for all of them? Even the ones that get paid well, are so far in debt that their freedom is also limited....

Striking the right balance is very hard to do.  I think no matter what system or regulations you put in place there will always be winners and losers.

[bebop396]

Striking the right balance is very hard to do.  I think no matter what system or regulations you put in place there will always be winners and losers.

Unfortuneatly is that pretty much a cold hard fact....

[bebop396]

Saw a Cuban doc last week and it seemed that a big majority of Cubans love their govt..They do not like living in poverty but they made a point that even if they came over to America, they would most likely live in poverty, and how is that better then where they are? They have a different view of life over there where you have the basic essentials in life, and well over there, a car is not essential...They say the way its set up over there, if you want more out of life in the material sense that you basically have to move away and start fresh...

They watch the our hollywood movies over there and think all is sunshine and full of freedom...The ones that leave and wash up our shores find out differently....Many Cubans have made it to America and inform their remaining families what its like over here and they know the truth then...Ill try to find the doc...

[OzmO]

Saw a Cuban doc last week and it seemed that a big majority of Cubans love their govt..They do not like living in poverty but they made a point that even if they came over to America, they would most likely live in poverty, and how is that better then where they are? They have a different view of life over there where you have the basic essentials in life, and well over there, a car is not essential...They say the way its set up over there, if you want more out of life in the material sense that you basically have to move away and start fresh...

They watch the our hollywood movies over there and think all is sunshine and full of freedom...The ones that leave and wash up our shores find out differently....Many Cubans have made it to America and inform their remaining families what its like over here and they know the truth then...Ill try to find the doc...

Then there is the other side of the coin.  Many immigrants have come to thins country and made a wonderful life through hard work and prudent saving and investing.   I see it all the time in California.   

I think to a certain extent, our society preaches victim-ology.  I acknowledge that the playing field is uneven, but the opportunity is still there.   I think we must always strive to make it as even as possible.

However, anyone can make it if they are willing to do what is needed.