Author Topic: Karl Rove sums up Obama's facade  (Read 4439 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: Karl Rove sums up Obama's facade
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2008, 10:54:47 AM »
How do know you what taxes poor people pay?

I specifically said "income taxes."  This is what I often say in my house to my kids as "asking a question you know the answer to."  You are a tax man.  You know the answer to that one. 

Decker

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Re: Karl Rove sums up Obama's facade
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2008, 12:31:55 PM »
I specifically said "income taxes."  This is what I often say in my house to my kids as "asking a question you know the answer to."  You are a tax man.  You know the answer to that one. 

Why skew to income tax only?  That just simplifies your position and wrongly so.  Take a look at the flat payroll tax.  State taxes are largely flat.  Sales taxes are flat.  Everybody pays the same capital gains tax.

Oh the injustice that the wealthy have to pay a tax apportioned to their earnings.  Oh the humanity!

Here are the reasons the rich (330,000+) pay more income taxes:  They earn more and their increase in income over the last several decades has dwarfed the flatlining of the middle and lower class earners.

So the rich don't just make some more money than the rest of us, they make an obscenely larger amount than us.

Dos Equis

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Re: Karl Rove sums up Obama's facade
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2008, 12:41:22 PM »
Why skew to income tax only?  That just simplifies your position and wrongly so.  Take a look at the flat payroll tax.  State taxes are largely flat.  Sales taxes are flat.  Everybody pays the same capital gains tax.

Oh the injustice that the wealthy have to pay a tax apportioned to their earnings.  Oh the humanity!

Here are the reasons the rich (330,000+) pay more income taxes:  They earn more and their increase in income over the last several decades has dwarfed the flatlining of the middle and lower class earners.

So the rich don't just make some more money than the rest of us, they make an obscenely larger amount than us.

Because when we talk about taxes we're generally talking about payroll taxes.  The "poor" pay little, if any payroll taxes when all is said and done, particularly given the Earned Income Tax Credit.  That's why I disagree with your statement:  "Let's have the poor pay more taxes!"

Also, those who make $330,000 are not necessarily "rich."  A single member limited liabilty company can gross $330,000, but that small business owner could net under $100k after overhead.  Are they still "rich"? 

calmus

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Re: Karl Rove sums up Obama's facade
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2008, 12:44:21 PM »


Also, those who make $330,000 are not necessarily "rich."  A single member limited liabilty company can gross $330,000, but that small business owner could net under $100k after overhead.  Are they still "rich"? 

I guess the concept of "flow through" never made it out to Hawaii, or you're too old to have heard of it.

shootfighter1

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Re: Karl Rove sums up Obama's facade
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2008, 12:50:42 PM »
Decker, what did you mean when you said the tax is flat up to $105,000?
I didn't catch that, because income tax brackets go up way before that.
Obama considers everyone making over $150-200K rich and will raise taxes even more on those people.  I am not in that category, but I think its unfair.  When we are talking about the top 0.1-1% of earners (which is not $150-200K), I am less sympathetic.

The amount of employee taxes and fees for gov programs is crazy already.  Small business owners cannot afford any increases!

Decker

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Re: Karl Rove sums up Obama's facade
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2008, 02:02:17 PM »
Decker, what did you mean when you said the tax is flat up to $105,000?
I didn't catch that, because income tax brackets go up way before that.
Obama considers everyone making over $150-200K rich and will raise taxes even more on those people.  I am not in that category, but I think its unfair.  When we are talking about the top 0.1-1% of earners (which is not $150-200K), I am less sympathetic.

The amount of employee taxes and fees for gov programs is crazy already.  Small business owners cannot afford any increases!
The social security payroll tax is capped at an indexed dollar amount.  Only amounts up to 105,000 are taxed.  That's not the case for the medicare portion.

I know about Obama's plan.  I don't agree with it much either.  I think he should raise taxes on the top bracket.  We do have bills to pay.

shootfighter1

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Re: Karl Rove sums up Obama's facade
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2008, 02:37:16 PM »
Plus, take most professionals who were not born with a silver spoon.  We work our asses off in college and post-graduate school for many years before we even start making $, while accumulating tons of debt and loans.  (I was in school for 12 f'n yrs accumulating loans & debts).
Now you finally make decent $ & your told 40+% of that portion of good income goes to the government?  Is the gov helping to pay your accumulated debts & loans?  No!  So, we are penalyzing people who worked hard to become professionals in many fields.  Penalyzing acheivement and delayed gratification.  I think its unfair.  The dems should be speaking of the elite $ earners...then I wouldn't have any issues with it.

Then small business owners...we don't have the $ to fund full medical coverage for our employees & families (another Obama proposal).  We have to pay all sorts of bullshit taxes already.  Then add in worker's comp, job&family services, FMLA, employment taxes, and so on for each employee.  I follow the rules but it sucks!  Anyone who wants to make it worse for small businesses can kiss my vote goodbye.

War-Horse

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Re: Karl Rove sums up Obama's facade
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2008, 03:11:30 PM »
Yes, correct its graduated based upon $ earned.  I knew you were knowledgeable.

I argue that many upper middle class earners are unfairly affected by the high rate of taxes, which will get worse under Obama.  Capital gains taxes only affect people who own companies or stock.  Income is still taxed very high.  Capital gains will also go up with Obama.  Its an aweful situation IMO that penalyses people who are taking risks, starting companies, being productive, plus the gov will get less people taking business start-up chances and less invest in the market, which drives our economy.  Cut spending!!!

The people who's income has grown 300% are not upper middle class.  They are the elite.  CEOs, etc.
Obama's policies will hurt regular productive Americans.





Once again you dont get it.      The middle class has dissapeared and now its time for the elites to get rid of you.......your education means nothing. This isnt a free country where you are rewarded for hard work, No, not a democracy.   This is a Totalitarian establishment being set-up by the elites under the guise of "Terrorist protection"

You see while you had the chance to build huge corporations...you didnt, so you will be downsized.