Running my first cycle next week

[Zaidos]

I have received everything I need (PCT, actual gear, etc)

Here is an outline of my cycle period, let me know if there is anything I should change:

TC = Testosterone Cypionate (250mg)
TM = Tamoximed (10mg)
Clen = Clenbuterol (40mcg)
CLO = Clomid (50mg)

[4thAD]

How many cycles have you run? Just briefly looking through the graph it looks simple, but good. Are you really gyno prone? Thats a lot of nolva, how about using letro, or adex while on cycle? IMHO you should be bumping HCG during this cycle.

[Zaidos]

It's going to be my first cycle ever. Not to sure about gyno prone. but at the moment I have no access to arimidex.

I was thinking of just leaving out the nolva till PCT, and do the 60mg 2 days, 40mg1 day, and 20mg rest of the days in case that gyno symptoms DO occur?

[candidizzle]

an aromatase inhibitor would be better than tomoximed thoughout.    hcg used post cycle and preferably during cycle is most wise.   pretty much what 4th said ! lol

have you ever used clen before?

[Emmortal]

Personally I wouldn't taper up the clen so fast.  I'd recommend running it like this for a first timer 40/40/40/60/60/60/80/80/80/100/100/100.

[Luv2Hurt]

Personally I wouldn't taper up the clen so fast.  I'd recommend running it like this for a first timer 40/40/40/60/60/60/80/80/80/100/100/100.

You could read that?

[Emmortal]

You could read that?

I have Superman eyes.

But really, if you click the "cycle.jpg" under the image you can open it with an image viewer at full resolution.

[Luv2Hurt]

I have Superman eyes.

But really, if you click the "cycle.jpg" under the image you can open it with an image viewer at full resolution.

Thanks, now i can read it LOL

[Tapeworm]

I agree, get an AI.  Try Gaspari Novadex or 6OXO if nothing else, but Arimidex is proven.  Better to have E levels under control heading into PCT than using Nolva to block a big reservoir of E.

I disagree with 300mg of Clomid.  Run in conjunction with Nolva, I'd just go 50mg/day straight through.

[Emmortal]

I agree, get an AI.  Try Gaspari Novadex or 6OXO if nothing else, but Arimidex is proven.  Better to have E levels under control heading into PCT than using Nolva to block a big reservoir of E.

I disagree with 300mg of Clomid.  Run in conjunction with Nolva, I'd just go 50mg/day straight through.

yea, no need to run it that high.  I've seen studies showing as little as 25mgs of clomid ED will get test levels into the 600 range.

[candidizzle]

yea, no need to run it that high.  I've seen studies showing as little as 25mgs of clomid ED will get test levels into the 600 range.

for real? damn.


i been thinking about that feedback loop. i guess the body knws how much test it has in the body by seeig how much estro it has? is that right?    o why not run aroatase inhibotir from day1 before first injection and keep estro levels way down low.. then body wont knw that youve got extra test?       it seems to good to be true so maybe im missin something,  but who knows.. any of you?

[Emmortal]

for real? damn.


i been thinking about that feedback loop. i guess the body knws how much test it has in the body by seeig how much estro it has? is that right?    o why not run aroatase inhibotir from day1 before first injection and keep estro levels way down low.. then body wont knw that youve got extra test?       it seems to good to be true so maybe im missin something,  but who knows.. any of you?

Not exactly.  You should read the sticky about the HPT axis.

The body still detects the exogenous source of testosterone and thus shuts down your natural production.  This is why guys, like myself, like to run HCG on cycle because it mimics LH which is produced by the pituitary gland and is the signal the testes get to produce test.  Running HCG on cycle keeps your natural test production at around 26% which is enough to keep any testicular atrophy from occurring.

[candidizzle]

aaaahhhhhh plsu some more test it seems. cool stuff

through what mechanism does the body detect the extra test ? if not through estro feedback loop

[Emmortal]

The hypothalamus monitors test levels.  I'm not sure of the exact detection scheme it uses, I'm not a doctor and only have a pretty elementary knowledge of the exact workings so that might be better left up to the more knowledgeable guys.

[Tapeworm]

I've read that the hypothalamus has both ERs and ARs.  That's why SARMs are such a wet dream.

[Van_Bilderass]

I quote Karl Hoffman

Androgens act at both the hypothalamic and pituitary levels to shut down the HPTA. Aromatization is not necessary.

At the hypothalmus, they primarily disrupt the frequency of the GnRH pulse generator. At the pituitary, they block synthesis of LH proteins. The latter is interesting because it seems to happen at the level of translation rather than transcription, since LH mRNA is unchanged by DHT:

http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/145/1/71

See fig 3.

That could be an artifact of the time scale over which the experiment was performed, however, since other studies show DHT acts directly to inhibit LH gene transcription by suppressing LH gene promoter constructs:

http://mend.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/15/11/1906

[candidizzle]

oh man maybe i should have kept quie...maybe i tired or maybe im stpid but i dont understand that one bit, van ! lol.

i come back in the morninng and try again

thank you and thank tapeworm and thank emmortal for info

[rccs]

I would leve nolva for pct and use proviron or clomid during the cycle... That's a load of nolva...

[Emmortal]

I would leve nolva for pct and use proviron or clomid during the cycle... That's a load of nolva...

Why would you suggest using clomid on cycle?  That makes little sense.  If he's worried about gyno or bloat he should run an AI, Aromasin or Adex.  Clomid really should only be used in PCT.

[4thAD]

no clomid on cycle thats complete BS! Use adex or letro. I def like the idea of provirion, it works very well to help keep you dry. I would use nolva while on way before I even thought about clomid, but the other ancillaries will work much more proficient.



PS sorry for my messed up posts I had a couple beers for the first time in a very long time!