ENOUGH IS ENOUGH - FROM RONNIE COLEMAN HIMSELF!

[pumpster]

  I am talking about what actually transpired and not what should or should not have happened.

Pssssst...everyone already knows what happened, a trained monkey could recite the obvious almost as well.. We're talking about keeping it real in terms of strong visual proof to the contrary of contest decisions that you're in complete denial on. Which then lends credence to those who believe that you and others practive racism in favor of white BBs.

[SweetMuscles]

Cigaretteman is tearing Hulsker and plumpster a new asshole. They will resort to more personal insults now as they can't counter his arguments.

[pumpster]

Cigaretteman is tearing Hulsker and plumpster a new asshole. They will resort to more personal insults now as they can't counter his arguments.

gimmick trolling at it's best lol hi "cigaretteman"

[CigaretteMan]

Pssssst...everyone already knows what happened, a trained monkey could recite it. We're talking about keeping it real and the evident bias in favor of white BBs you and others have.

  You are a moron of the highest caliber. Bias in favor of white bodybuilders? Then  explain why the 2 guys who won the most Olympia titles are both black? Explain why Coleman defeated Jay at the 2001 Olympia despite losing both the symmetry and muscularity rounds? You ofer no explanation because clearly there is no bias in favor of whote bodybuilders.

  And if you had read anything of my post - obviously not the case -, you'd realize that I mentioned that everyone is partial and biased, which makes the claim that partial judges decide the outcome of contests redundant, because you can't have each and every bodybuilding fan voting to decide who wins, so a panel of judges is the only way to go. And while the judges decidions are arbitrary just like everybody else's, they are the ones who ultimately decide the outcome, so that's what matters. Why is your arbitrary taste more relevant than the judges' arbitrary taste? It's very simple, really: both the fans and judges are biased, but it is the judges who decide the winner so it is their opinion that matters, because we can't possibly hold an election where all the hundreds of thousands or millions of bodybuilding fans would vote to decide the outcome of contests.

[pumpster]

 You are a moron of the highest caliber. Bias in favor of white bodybuilders? Then  explain why the 2 guys who won the most Olympia titles are both black? Explain why Coleman defeated Jay at the 2001 Olympia despite losing both the symmetry and muscularity rounds? You ofer no explanation because clearly there is no bias in favor of whote bodybuilders.

Racist meltdown

[CigaretteMan]

Racist meltdown

  Yeah, nice argument right there. You claimed that the I.F.B.B is racist, and I counter-argued that the 2 guys who won the highest number of the most prestigious title the I.F.B.B has are both black, thus killing your argumentation right there. And Ronnie's win at the 2001 Olympia could be seen as eithe racism or cronyism on the part of the judges, given that following the federation's rule book Ronnie lost the contest.

[NeoSeminole]

You can't counter the fact that Dorian at the 1995 Olympia received perfect scores from the 12 judges on both rounds, while Ronnie's win in 2003 was less dominant. These are facts, and your whining won't change them.

prove that 95 Dorian received perfect scores from all the judges on both rounds while 03 Ronnie didn't. Also, dominance is characterized by the disparity between competitors. The difference between Ronnie and Jay was much greater than Dorian and Kevin Levrone. Ronnie outweighed his closest competition that year by over 20 lbs. Dorian was a few lbs heavier than Kevin and had a torn muscle.

[SweetMuscles]

prove that 95 Dorian received perfect scores from all the judges on both rounds while 03 Ronnie didn't.

What a desperate little Coleman guy. These are well reported facts and are well known. Go look it up if your phat ass is so out of the loop.

I bet you hate white people.

[NeoSeminole]

What a desperate little Coleman guy. These are well reported facts and are well known. Go look it up if your phat ass is so out of the loop.

I bet you hate white people.

oh hai, troll.

[Hulkster]

I am talking about what actually transpired and not what should or should not have happened. When I say that Dorian received perfect scores from all judges on both rounds, I am simply saying what happened. As for the judges being partial, guess what? Everyone is. You prefer Ronnie because you like his smaller waisted physique better, Sharma prefers Nasser because they are both of Arabic descent, etc. The difference is that the opinions of the judges are more important because it is them and not us who decide the outcome of contests. What makes your opinion more valid than that of 12 judges who have years of experience judging physiques and have seen thousands of physiques? As for politics, please,  that is a strawman argument because there is no way to prove or disprove it.

wrong. first of all, the fact that we as fans prefer certain physiques over others is simply because we are emphasizing different parts of the standard criteria for judging physiques. Which is perfectly valid as we are subjectively applying all the proper criteria.  the problem with the judges was that they were IGNORING parts of the criteria to allow dorian to win.

eg. how the hell can someone who has a front double bi like this win the 'symmetry' round, win the contest with perfect scores etc etc.?

you say there is no way to prove the poltical motivations/partialness of the judges?

here is your proof right here:

call it what you want: politics, blind judging, incorrect judging, whatever.

but it was not right:

you look at the scores without seeing the physique and you say "wow dorian must have been incredible"

then you see this:

 

its about as blatant as you can get:

[Hulkster]

the bottom line is that you cannot accuse dorian of having received a "gift" in 1994 because a true gift happens when two competitors are equal on the score and the judges give one of them the win by one point or so based on a ridiculous criteria - see Jay Cutler at the 2007 Olympia

LOL where the hell did you come up with this bullshit definition of "gift"?  your ass?

 

no, a 'gift" win is where one competitor is awarded more (less in ths sport) points and the win over someone who he did not deserve to beat based on conventional criteria.

eg. bloated and torn 94 dorian over a near perfect shawn ray.

don't try and change the normal meaning of a 'gift' in order to justify dorian's inflated scoring.

it won't work.

sorry.

[Camel Jockey]

What does "Ronnie" think of this picture? 

The problem is that he tore his bicep by the 1994 Mr. Olympia and was never really the same again.

Do continue posting those black and white shots though. I mean how else should one validate those wins in '96 and '97?

[Hulkster]

My point here is that Ronnie has had wins that were questionable on paper, while Dorian never did. Understand?

exactly my point.

had the judging been impartial, dorian would have had a lot of questionable wins on paper.  but he didn't. and if you look at the contests, with that torn bi, Nasser, Ray 94 etc. he should  NOT have had such perfect score cards. When ronnie showed up looking like shit, he was marked down for it. He still won, but did not win with picture perfect scores. Dorian showed up looking like shit in a similar fashion, and the judges didn't even care...torn bi? who cares..torn tri? who cares..torn quad? who cares..etc.  need I go on?

the fact that he looked like he did in some of his post tear wins, and was not marked down for it, is yet more proof that his wins/scoring was not partial.

you are arguing against yourself.

[Hulkster]

And to be honest with you, I think that the judges' opinions,  biased as they are, are more erudite than mine or yours, given that Olympia judges have on average over 20 years of judging experience and have seen thousands of physiques. From what I've gathered from your posts, you have never been to a pro bodybuilding contest. Is that correct? Then why do you believe that your opinion is more important than that of the judges?

because you and I are not motivated by Joe Weider and the IFBB.

we are motived by criteria.

do you really think that not scoring dorian down for the torn bi was proper?

please.

any knowledgable fan would and rightfully so.

the judges didn't.

its not hard to figure out why.

[Hulkster]

The same can be said for you. You can come up with whatever reasons you want for why Nasser should have won, or for why Ronnie is better than all bodybuilders, etc. Or "Pumpster" coming up with strawman argument after strawman argument to explain why physiques he doesen't like win contests.

but there is a crucial difference you are overlooking.

We can use real visual evidence to SUPPORT our claims.

when you use the real visual evidence with dorian,  you see Nasser beating him in several poses from the front, a horrendous torn bi, and shawn looking like he did in 94 relative to dorian and all of this was ignored and perfect scores give to dorian anway.. .. well, you see that the judging was not very good at all..

[Hulkster]

The bottom line is that there were no "gifts" in Dorian's wins because there has never happened that Dorian was behind or equal to someone in the score and the judges gave him the win anyway - like it happened to Jay at the 2007 Olympia and to Ronnie at the 2001 Olympia.

the whole reason dorian was not behind or equal in score was because all of his flaws relative to his competition were ignored and he was given a perfect score anyway.

thus, what you are saying never happened did not happen because there was no gift.

it happened because there WAS a gift.

you are begging the question here:

You are assuming that there could be no gift in your attempt to argue that there was not a gift.\

classic philisophical fallacy.

 

[pumpster]

Do continue posting those black and white shots though. I mean how else should one validate those wins in '96 and '97?

The constant resorts to black sox/black & whites are tacit admissions of poor contest showings.

[NarcissisticDeity]

the whole reason dorian was not behind or equal in score was because all of his flaws relative to his competition were ignored and he was given a perfect score anyway.

thus, what you are saying never happened did not happen because there was no gift.

it happened because there WAS a gift.

you are begging the question here:

You are assuming that there could be no gift in your attempt to argue that there was not a gift.\

classic philisophical fallacy.

 

This coming from the same idiot who claimed Ronnie ' dominated ' in 2001 by losing the whole pre-judging lol



next

[NarcissisticDeity]

but there is a crucial difference you are overlooking.

We can use real visual evidence to SUPPORT our claims.

when you use the real visual evidence with dorian,  you see Nasser beating him in several poses from the front, a horrendous torn bi, and shawn looking like he did in 94 relative to dorian and all of this was ignored and perfect scores give to dorian anway.. .. well, you see that the judging was not very good at all..

Again the judging was spot on and why? because it was consistent all the judges came to the same conclusion its simple but you can't look past your own bias/preferences to see this .

[Hulkster]

This coming from the same idiot who claimed Ronnie ' dominated ' in 2001 by losing the whole pre-judging lol



next

thanks for proving my point.

ronnie lost the prejuding on paper only due to crappy judging.

you are not helping CigaretteMan by posting stuff like this you know. you are only verify exactly what I am saying.

thanks!

he didn't lose in real life: only on paper:

[Hulkster]

Again the judging was spot on and why? because it was consistent all the judges came to the same conclusion

they came to the same conclusion because they were impartial and biased towards dorian. Joe's name is on each contest you know.

its not rocket science.

if you think the judging was so 'spot on' please explain how this could not even make a dent in dorian's scoring:

 

[CigaretteMan]

prove that 95 Dorian received perfect scores from all the judges on both rounds while 03 Ronnie didn't.

  It was mentioned on Ironman's report of that year's Olympia. Now prove to me that Ronnie received perfect scores from all judges on both rounds.

Also, dominance is characterized by the disparity between competitors. The difference between Ronnie and Jay was much greater than Dorian and Kevin Levrone.

  Do you even know what straight-firsts means? It means that the Dorian won without having to resort to points. And can you prove that Ronnie defeated Jay by a greater distance than Doran defeated Kevin in 1995? Of course you can't. And finally, defeating Levrone with straight-firsts scores is a much greater achievement than defeating Jay with straight-firsts scores, because Kevin is a vastly superior bodybuilder.

Ronnie outweighed his closest competition that year by over 20 lbs. Dorian was a few lbs heavier than Kevin and had a torn muscle.

  Shawn Ray defeated competitors that outweighed him by 40 lbs or more, and so did Flex Wheeler. Your point is? Weight is not important; physique is.

[Hulkster]

Weight is not important; physique is.

something the judges did not know in 1994..

 

[NeoSeminole]

It was mentioned on Ironman's report of that year's Olympia. Now prove to me that Ronnie received perfect scores from all judges on both rounds.

it was mentioned on Ironman's report of that year's Olympia. See how easy that was?

Do you even know what straight-firsts means? It means that the Dorian won without having to resort to points. And can you prove that Ronnie defeated Jay by a greater distance than Doran defeated Kevin in 1995? Of course you can't. And finally, defeating Levrone with straight-firsts scores is a much greater achievement than defeating Jay with straight-firsts scores, because Kevin is a vastly superior bodybuilder.

do you know what dominance means? Apparently not b/c you invented your own definition. The disparity between Ronnie and Jay >>> Dorian and Kevin.

Shawn Ray defeated competitors that outweighed him by 40 lbs or more, and so did Flex Wheeler. Your point is? Weight is not important; physique is.

Shawn and Flex defeated larger competitors with their conditioning and symmetry. Your point? Jay had none of those advantages over Ronnie and was over 20 lbs lighter. What's your excuse now, bitch?

[benz]

hahha narsissydeity still trying to prove his point, how sad