Nice Richard Dawkins Quote: why gods are so improbable....

[Deicide]

No but a male can wash their hands of a pregnancy and walk away, which is the male equivilant to an abortion. A woman can have an abortion or not and this is not contingent on the fathers approval, however if a man wants an abortion and the women wont get one he is relegated to paying child support. a male abortion would be washing his hands of it, or perhaps a reduced child support payment something along those lines.

Difficult issue; why do you care so much about it?

[tonymctones]

Difficult issue; why do you care so much about it?

mainly b/c its unfair, I dont agree with abortion anyways but who am I to tell you what to do with your body.

[loco]

And, he'll miss that aim, just like every other atheist who has tried it.

Yes, like Anthony Flew.  If you can't beat us, join us.   

[tonymctones]

but the main point is that if it is true that you spend so much time on religion b/c of its lack of "truth" and the other reasons you gave, fanaticism, imposing itself on others, dictating what ppl do. There are a number of other more beneficial arguements out there to be argued. 

[Deicide]

but the main point is that if it is true that you spend so much time on religion b/c of its lack of "truth" and the other reasons you gave, fanaticism, imposing itself on others, dictating what ppl do. There are a number of other more beneficial arguements out there to be argued. 

Such as? None to which so much importance is attached bu human beings; many people would utterly crumble without their faith, this just showing how important of an issue it is.

[tonymctones]

Such as? None to which so much importance is attached bu human beings; many people would utterly crumble without their faith, this just showing how important of an issue it is.

ill agree with you on that but that is somewhat misdirecting my point. What benefits do you get from showing ppl the "truth"? what benefits does the world/society gain from turning away from religion? The results and benefits of the other topics of which i talk about are much more tangible than those that might be gained from doing away with religion. so why not spend your time and energy on those?

[Deicide]

ill agree with you on that but that is somewhat misdirecting my point. What benefits do you get from showing ppl the "truth"? what benefits does the world/society gain from turning away from religion? The results and benefits of the other topics of which i talk about are much more tangible than those that might be gained from doing away with religion. so why not spend your time and energy on those?

Generally speaking I do; however in some cases religion threatens the very fabric of progressive, secular society, attempting to impose desert mythology on modern civilisation. That needs to be opposed.

[tonymctones]

Generally speaking I do; however in some cases religion threatens the very fabric of progressive, secular society, attempting to impose desert mythology on modern civilisation. That needs to be opposed.

I can agree with that as Ive come to believe that religion is a personal thing and you should share the word of God not force the word of God also your views no matter whether they be religious or otherwise should not be put on somebody else in all circumstances. However this doesnt mean that you should feel the need to abolish religion as a whole,  and I understand that you may not feel that way and that your post on getbig may be a small portion of your belief system but it does seem that you do feel that it needs to be done away with all together.

[Deicide]

I can agree with that as Ive come to believe that religion is a personal thing and you should share the word of God not force the word of God also your views no matter whether they be religious or otherwise should not be put on somebody else in all circumstances. However this doesnt mean that you should feel the need to abolish religion as a whole,  and I understand that you may not feel that way and that your post on getbig may be a small portion of your belief system but it does seem that you do feel that it needs to be done away with all together.

Ineradicable...but certainly worthy or eradication.

"I am not even an atheist so much as I am an antitheist; I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth, but I hold that the influence of churches, and the effect of religious belief is positively harmful. Reviewing the false claims of religion, I do not wish, as some sentimental materialists affect to wish, that they were true. I do not envy believers their faith. I am relieved to think that the whole story is a sinister fairy tale; life would be miserable if what the faithful affirmed was actually the case."
-Hitchens

[tonymctones]

ok but as you stated you dont care about whether its beneficial or harmful.

[Deicide]

ok but as you stated you dont care about whether its beneficial or harmful.

It's not my first priority but falsehood is also a form of wickedness.

[MCWAY]

mainly b/c its unfair, I dont agree with abortion anyways but who am I to tell you what to do with your body.

The problem is that it ain't the woman who's getting her arms and legs ripped off, her skull crushed, and her brains vaccumed out....nor it is her body being burned with a chemical solution.

[OzmO]

The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.
"God's Utility Function," Scientific American, November, 1995, p. 85

I think it's far more probable that the Bible isn't the 100% word of God then God not existing at all.   

[OzmO]

The problem is that it ain't the woman who's getting her arms and legs ripped off, her skull crushed, and her brains vaccumed out....nor it is her body being burned with a chemical solution.

This is why, if it ever comes to a vote, I may vote against abortion.
 

[Deicide]

I think it's far more probable that the Bible isn't the 100% word of God then God not existing at all.   

What sort of 'god' is it that you believe in? I know it's not good 'ol Yahweh the angry old man...

[Deedee]

This is why, if it ever comes to a vote, I may vote against abortion.
 

Late term abortion is horrible and should be outlawed. If you haven't made a stand by the fifth month, chances are you should be having your child.

I hope, if abortion is abolished, that you'll be part of the solution though, Ozmo. People have been having sex and abortions since the beginning of time.  The only way it will work is if society as a whole changes.  Encourage people to marry between the 17-23 age bracket, reinforce cleaving to one partner from beginning to end, enforce strict reponsibility laws for men... with prison sentences perhaps, for those who don't support their children, that sort of thing.

I think if abortion is outlawed, most of the northern state women will flock to heathen Canada  to have theirs.  The poor and the rest will potentially have to consider illegal abortion if they're desperate enough.  As the food shortage issue/climate change becomes worse, who knows, maybe China-like caps on per-couple births will also be enforced with forced sterilization after two. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the future. 

[OzmO]

Late term abortion is horrible and should be outlawed. If you haven't made a stand by the fifth month, chances are you should be having your child.

I hope, if abortion is abolished, that you'll be part of the solution though, Ozmo. People have been having sex and abortions since the beginning of time.  The only way it will work is if society as a whole changes.  Encourage people to marry between the 17-23 age bracket, reinforce cleaving to one partner from beginning to end, enforce strict reponsibility laws for men... with prison sentences perhaps, for those who don't support their children, that sort of thing.

I think if abortion is outlawed, most of the northern state women will flock to heathen Canada  to have theirs.  The poor and the rest will potentially have to consider illegal abortion if they're desperate enough.  As the food shortage issue/climate change becomes worse, who knows, maybe China-like caps on per-couple births will also be enforced with forced sterilization after two. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the future. 

I believe the solution is people choosing to do the right thing.  However as a society and a species we are far from doing what's best regardless of the burdens or consequences those decisions bring us.  I will always support choosing not to abort. 

I really don't think it will ever be brought to a vote.

[OzmO]

What sort of 'god' is it that you believe in? I know it's not good 'ol Yahweh the angry old man...

It's Foo Foo the love God.   


You might come to the conclusion that if life/soul is everlasting then our time on earth is but a blink when compared to eternity which in many ways trivializes what happens to us here.

Or you could say, screw it, we are just animals that die.

[Deicide]

It's Foo Foo the love God.   


You might come to the conclusion that if life/soul is everlasting then our time on earth is but a blink when compared to eternity which in many ways trivializes what happens to us here.

Or you could say, screw it, we are just animals that die.

Exactly.

BTW, you can call anything god; love, hate, lust...that's why ancient deities personified these things...pretty arbitrary at the end of the day.

[OzmO]

Exactly.

BTW, you can call anything god; love, hate, lust...that's why ancient deities personified these things...pretty arbitrary at the end of the day.

I see your point.  But don't share it.  I think science will discover God at some point.  But we are a ways away.    

[Deicide]

I see your point.  But don't share it.  I think science will discover God at some point.  But we are a ways away.    

Humanity wll be long gone by then; still at least you aren't a bible thumper.

[OzmO]

Humanity wll be long gone by then; still at least you aren't a bible thumper.

ehhh,  maybe.  Think about it.  If we survive and continue to evolve and progress technologically we will merge with machines.   10k to 20k years from now we will likely all be one race.


I can only thank God for not being a Bible thumper.     seriously. 

[Deicide]

ehhh,  maybe.  Think about it.  If we survive and continue to evolve and progress technologically we will merge with machines.   10k to 20k years from now we will likely all be one race.


I can only thank God for not being a Bible thumper.     seriously. 

Could well be true...even in a thousand years...

I thank Woden too...

[Dos Equis]

Late term abortion is horrible and should be outlawed. If you haven't made a stand by the fifth month, chances are you should be having your child.

Why?  What's the difference between aborting a baby at three or four months versus five months?

[tonymctones]

Why?  What's the difference between aborting a baby at three or four months versus five months?

exactly, I agree, when do you believe that life begins? Not specifically you beach just a general question...the problem with your example beach is whats the difference between 3 months and 10 years, it leaves the door open for infantcide b/c you cant justify a difference.