Ester trivia!!

[Alex23]

Will 500mg of Propionate vs Cypionate lead to the same amount of "free testosterone"?

Hint: half life has nothing to do with it.

[Van_Bilderass]

Don't understand what you're getting at, please explain. I have a trivia question for you also: will SHBG go up or down when you take testosterone?

[Alex23]

Don't understand what you're getting at, please explain. I have a trivia question for you also: will SHBG go up or down when you take testosterone?

Hint: all about Molecular weight.

SHBG goes up I believe. There are ways to counteract it, insulin being one of them and Cytomel being another if I remember correctly.

[Van_Bilderass]

Hint: all about Molecular weight.

SHBG goes up I believe. There are ways to counteract it, insulin being one of them and Cytomel being another if I remember correctly.

Androgens lower SHBG and estrogens increase it. When taking testosterone the net effect is lower SHBG despite the estrogen increase from aromatization. Taking 600mg of testosterone will halve your SHBG levels compared to no supplementary test at all.

From your example, which ever ester increases test levels the most will also increase free test the most. Don't know which one it is but I should be pretty similar.

[Alex23]

Androgens lower SHBG and estrogens increase it. When taking testosterone the net effect is lower SHBG despite the estrogen increase from aromatization. Taking 600mg of testosterone will halve your SHBG levels compared to no supplementary test at all.

From your example, which ever ester increases test levels the most will also increase free test the most. Don't know which one it is but I should be pretty similar.

... but isn't the body going to boost the SHBG production resulting in a negative balance once the exogenous androgens have left the building?

propionate esters are about 0.85 times the weight of the cypoinates. Once the enzymes have "disconnected" the ester from the testosterone molecules, you have 0.85 from a cypionate vs if you injected a propionate. Does it result in a higher plasma? I don't know I'm not a user

[Van_Bilderass]

... but isn't the body going to boost the SHBG production resulting in a negative balance once the exogenous androgens have left the building?

propionate esters are about 0.85 times the weight of the cypoinates. Once the enzymes have "disconnected" the ester from the testosterone molecules, you have 0.85 from a cypionate vs if you injected a propionate. Does it result in a higher plasma? I don't know I'm not a user

Oops, I read your question as enanthate vs cypionate. You do get more pure test from prop compared to cyp so you should get higher levels from prop.

Don't really understand your question about "exogenous androgens leaving the building". During a cycle SHBG will go down.

[Alex23]

Don't really understand your question about "exogenous androgens leaving the building". During a cycle SHBG will go down.

..but won't the body counteract and start ramping up the SHBG as cortisol goes up and end up in negative territory once the exogenous source of test is no longer in the body? Is SHBG stricly correlated to the level of estrogen?

[Van_Bilderass]

..but won't the body counteract and start ramping up the SHBG as cortisol goes up and end up in negative territory once the exogenous source of test is no longer in the body? Is SHBG stricly correlated to the level of estrogen?

You mean after the cycle? I'm not sure how SHBG looks after a cycle, especially immediately after when both E and T are low. PCT drugs such as Clomid increase SHBG but it might not be a negative since you get less feedback inhibition due to lower free test.

Here you can see what happens to SHBG as you take test from 25-600mg:

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/281/6/E1172/T2

[Arnold jr]

Will 500mg of Propionate vs Cypionate lead to the same amount of "free testosterone"?

Hint: half life has nothing to do with it.

Like Van said, prop.

You mean after the cycle? I'm not sure how SHBG looks after a cycle, especially immediately after when both E and T are low. PCT drugs such as Clomid increase SHBG but it might not be a negative since you get less feedback inhibition due to lower free test.

Here you can see what happens to SHBG as you take test from 25-600mg:

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/281/6/E1172/T2

Good post Van. Appreciate you contributing to the board a lot these past few wks...need more guys like you here.

[Tapeworm]

Great chart Van!

I've read that androgen binding proteins are produced concurrently with endogenous testosterone, since they're required for spermatogenesis (which is also why spermatogenesis doesn't stop immediately at the start of a cycle, since there's a small reservoir of APB bound T stored in the testes)... although the particulars are a little hazy.  So you'd be producing ABPs when the testis start functioning again, but I wouldn't consider this a "rebound" so much as a start of normal function.

Are all SHBGs produced in this proportionally required way?  Well, I ... don't .... know.

[Rimbaud]

... but isn't the body going to boost the SHBG production resulting in a negative balance once the exogenous androgens have left the building?

propionate esters are about 0.85 times the weight of the cypoinates. Once the enzymes have "disconnected" the ester from the testosterone molecules, you have 0.85 from a cypionate vs if you injected a propionate. Does it result in a higher plasma? I don't know I'm not a user

For a nonuser you seem to have knowledge. 

[Alex23]

For a nonuser you seem to have knowledge. 

Are there any wrongs of having molecular level knowledges?

[candidizzle]

yes. alex. thanks for sharing some basic info that every newB on steroidolodgy knows ... 

[Rimbaud]

Are there any wrongs of having molecular level knowledges?

Did I say there was?

[Arnold jr]

Are there any wrongs of having molecular level knowledges?

No more wrong then being Champion...I live with this myself every day.

[Rimbaud]

Alex, I have to appologize because I accidently deleted your post trying to quote it (I'm half asleep). Anyway, I'm glad your concerned for my wellbeing. I hope I didn't strike a nerve, wasn't my intention. Anyway you know I love ya. 


EDIT: In fairness to Alex what I accidently deleted was a post that he wrote implying that I got cellulitis from an injection & then he was attempting to call out Arnold to post stats, pics, & whatnot.

[Arnold jr]

Alex, I have to appologize because I accidently deleted your post trying to quote it (I'm half asleep). Anyway, I'm glad your concerned for my wellbeing. I hope I didn't strike a nerve, wasn't my intention. Anyway you know I love ya. 


EDIT: In fairness to Alex what I accidently deleted was a post that he wrote implying that I got cellulitis from an injection & then he was attempting to call out Arnold to post stats, pics, & whatnot.

We all know no pics on the open board. As for stats or whatnot, what do you want to know Alex?

[Overload]

I have an eight inch penis.

Nothing more to add.

Thank you,