Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?

[Howard]

I can do heavy , full rep smith machine squats with no low back problems , not so with reg barbell squats.
Seems to me that they are both pretty similar, but the reg barbell squats always give me low back trouble, not so with smith squats??? I have my ideas, but was curious about this?

[haider]

u don't have to do 'em u know.. go for front squats instead.

[Bluto]

do leg extensions

[Howard]

u don't have to do 'em u know.. go for front squats instead.

I CAN do smith machine squats and enjoy them more than free wt barbell anyway.
I was simply curious as to why the reg barbell ones seem to affect my low back a lot more.
Howard

[Camel Jockey]

the straight movement on the smith machine actually gives me problems. I did have serious back problems with the barbell squat before, but it healed, and I think it had to do with improper form. I find that limiting heavy deadlifts helps me to squat without pain. The only deadlifting I actually do now are stiff legged deads on leg day.

Proper form is very important for the barbell squat. It's a flumid motion where you learn not to lockout the knees and just go down swiftly without looking as through you're doing some goodmornings. Kinda like how Justin Harris squats in his youtube videos. That's ideal if you're a tall person, although some nazis would say it isn't.

[Howard]

the straight movement on the smith machine actually gives me problems. I did have serious back problems with the barbell squat before, but it healed, and I think it had to do with proper form. I find that limiting heavy deadlifts helps me to squat without pain. The only deadlifting I actually do now are stiff legged deads on leg day.

Proper form is very important for the barbell squat. It's a flumid motion where you learn not to lockout the knees and just go down swiftly without looking as through you're doing some goodmornings. Kinda like how Justin Harris squats in his youtube videos. That's ideal if you're a tall person, although some nazis would say it isn't.

I am only 5'10" and in all modesty have good form in the barbell squat. I think the smith machine simply locks me into a form that does not allow for any fwd motion which keeps my low back from going out.
I am 49 and have arthritis now in my lowback/sacrum area ( my doc diagnosed it 3 yrs ago)
Howard

[Camel Jockey]

I am only 5'10" and in all modesty have good form in the barbell squat. I think the smith machine simply locks me into a form that does not allow for any fwd motion which keeps my low back from going out.
I am 49 and have arthritis now in my lowback/sacrum area ( my doc diagnosed it 3 yrs ago)
Howard

Damn..

Then you should avoid the barbell squat and other stuff that's known to be dangerous. Can never be too careful when you're older.

The thing is that when you're young, you tend to make mistakes. Simply correcting your form or even mindset can make a huge difference in correcting those mistakes and in creating a new outlook for the exercise as whole.

[Howard]

Damn..

Then you should avoid the barbell squat and other stuff that's known to be dangerous. Can never be too careful when you're older.

The thing is that when you're young, you tend to make mistakes. Simply correcting your form or even mindset can make a huge difference in correcting those mistakes and in creating a new outlook for the exercise as whole.

yeah, once my back goes out, it can be bad LOL
It sucks getting older, you can lift hard just have to be careful i guess.

[Ex Coelis]

I'm 6'0 and have to stand with my heels on top of ten pound plates or my knees feel like they'll explode

I prefer barbell squats, but use the smith rack for all presses (bench/shoulder)

[pumpster]

You've got two guys on here who react completely differently. There are no set rules as to which is better, all that matters is which one works and isn't painful. Proper form only goes so far, might not help in some cases. The smith flexes the bod at different angles & the pressure points as to where the resistance rests and are felt are different. Also there's no need to balance.

[The Coach]

I can do heavy , full rep smith machine squats with no low back problems , not so with reg barbell squats.
Seems to me that they are both pretty similar, but the reg barbell squats always give me low back trouble, not so with smith squats??? I have my ideas, but was curious about this?

The main difference is function Vs. Non- functional

[pumpster]

The main difference is function Vs. Non- functional

Nope; functional matters mainly for sports applications, not for BB or keeping in shape. He hasn't indicated sports applications and quite frankly, you should know by now that pragmatism when it comes to training especially for someone older than 25 is key, not functionalism.

[JohnnyVegas]

The movement of the two from a linear rotation of the hip, knee and ankle is identical.

The free bar squat will allow you to fall forward of backwards so the stabilizing muscles make it harder-and also harder on your lower back.

Since the movement for the quads, adductor and hams are the same, use what feels best to you.

[The Coach]

Nope; functional matters mainly for sports applications, not for BB or keeping in shape. He hasn't indicated sports applications and quite frankly, you should know by now that pragmatism when it comes to training especially for someone older than 25 is key, not functionalism.

Every week I pick the dumbest post for the week..........congrats, you won this week

[BroadStreetBruiser]

You know a forum is fucked when "serious question" needs to be said first.

[benz]

I can do heavy , full rep smith machine squats with no low back problems , not so with reg barbell squats.
Seems to me that they are both pretty similar, but the reg barbell squats always give me low back trouble, not so with smith squats??? I have my ideas, but was curious about this?

Try with a kid over you, you love that 

[triple_pickle]

howard, here's an excerpt from the book "starting strength" by mark rippetoe & lon kilgore, page 61, somebody posted a link to the pdf version a while ago

"squatting" in a smith machine is an oxymoron. a squat cannot be performed on a smith machine.... sorry.  and a leg press machine - the "hip sled" - may be even less useful.  both of these devices restrict movement in body segments that normally adjust position during a squat, thus restricting the expression of normal biomechanics.  the leg press is particularly heinous in that it allows the use of huge weights.... a 1000 lb leg press is as irrelevant as a 500 lb quartersquat.

because of your back you may stick to front squats though

[candidizzle]

BUUULLLLSHIITTTTT

 come on guys your smarter than this

one exercise superior to others just because its older ?

this is body building ... whatever builds your quads best and what ever your most comfortable doing then do THAT


squats = just one of many ways to work the quads

[triple_pickle]

BUUULLLLSHIITTTTT

 come on guys your smarter than this

one exercise superior to others just because its older ?

this is body building ... whatever builds your quads best and what ever your most comfortable doing then do THAT


squats = just one of many ways to work the quads

translation = i do quarter squats on a smith machine with 3 plates per side and my legs are monstrous 23"

[CARTEL]

I believe the answer to the question is this...

Men do regular squats no matter what.

Soccer Moms and Housewives use the Smith Machine.

NUT UP HOWARD!

[JohnnyVegas]

howard, here's an excerpt from the book "starting strength" by mark rippetoe & lon kilgore, page 61, somebody posted a link to the pdf version a while ago

"squatting" in a smith machine is an oxymoron. a squat cannot be performed on a smith machine.... sorry.  and a leg press machine - the "hip sled" - may be even less useful.  both of these devices restrict movement in body segments that normally adjust position during a squat, thus restricting the expression of normal biomechanics.   the leg press is particularly heinous in that it allows the use of huge weights.... a 1000 lb leg press is as irrelevant as a 500 lb quartersquat.

because of your back you may stick to front squats though

This is why you do not listen to stupid BBers who write stupid books.

The rotation in all three joints-hip, knee and ankle are identical in a smith squat, free squat and a squat machine like Cybex or Bodymasters.

The leg press is a different story, the rotation in all three joints is substantially less than a squat.

[The Coach]

Johnny Vegas, correct me if I'm wrong maybe I missed something in your posts.....BUT, what rotations are you referring too? Both exercises are saggital plain, closed chain exerxises. What rotation are you referring too?

[The Coach]

Johnny Vegas, correct me if I'm wrong maybe I missed something in your posts.....BUT, what rotations are you referring too? Both exercises are saggital plain, closed chain exerxises. What rotation are you referring too?

[JohnnyVegas]

Johnny Vegas, correct me if I'm wrong maybe I missed something in your posts.....BUT, what rotations are you referring too? Both exercises are saggital plain, closed chain exerxises. What rotation are you referring too?

Your upper body rotates forward at the hip-it flexes-since one of the quadraceps (rectus femoris) crosses the hip it affects lower leg development.

Your lower leg rotates at the knee, and your foot roates at the ankle, all three joints affect muscle development of the various leg muscles. The more rotation in all three joints, the more developed your legs become thru a larger ROM. That is why a leg press is not the best movement for legs.

[dawakaman]

this is what Charles Poliquin has to say about Smithmachine squats, and i agree.

Peace
D