Author Topic: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit  (Read 15029 times)

Van_Bilderass

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #50 on: May 28, 2008, 01:32:52 PM »

YOU MEAN THE ROUTINE THAT HAS YOU JERKING OFF ALL DAY....

ADAPT?Huh HERE IS HOW A PERSON'S BODY ADAPTS TO EXCESSIVE TRAINING...YOU TEAR THE MUSCLE AND YOU ARE NO LONGER ABLE TO TRAIN THEREBY GIVING YOU BODY THE REST IT NEEDS...



KEY WORDS HERE ARE...I AM NOT NATURAL!!!!...HELLO STUPID ARE YOU FRIENDS WITH CANDYASS CANDIZZLE? YOU ARE JUICING AND TELLING NON-JUICERS THEY CAN  WORK OUT EXCESSIVELY AND IT IS OK. KEEP IN MIND JUICERS HAVE THEIR DAY...THEY SHRIVEL UP AND DIE SKINNY...

If you knew anything about powerlifting you'd know that many elite natural/clean athletes train high frequency. You obviously weren't familiar with Sheiko. I personally know some powerlifters who do very well with high frequency, lifetime natural lifters. Juicers do better with less frequency because protein synthesis is artificially elevated for longer periods of time. When I was a beginner I was sometimes sore for 10-14 days (believe it or not) after a hard leg workout. Does that mean every 14 days is the minimum I need to rest between workouts? No, the body adapts and you get less and less sore over time.

Soreness doesn't mean "tearing muscle". And even if it did, the fact that you stop getting sore after increasing frequency means the body adapts to the demands placed on it.

medz zeppelin

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2008, 01:39:52 PM »
I agree to a point. Naturals can hit a bodypart 2x a week provided they train smart. I done the full body twice in a week and made the best gains of my life last summer.
i go by the 3 days on one day off............you hit the muscle group twice in a 7 day priod...........chest arms ....legs.........back shouldrers.......upperbo dy rests between leg days......every couple of weeks i'll take 2 days off in a row

rccs

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2008, 02:19:13 PM »
Are you familiar with Sheiko powerlifting routines?

If you train say squats 3 days per week your body is going to adapt and you're not going to get sore anymore. Besides, soreness doesn't mean you can't hit a bodypart again.

Personally I've recently hit PRs in the deadlift by doing squats and deadlifts, or another lower back exercise like good mornings, 3 days per week. I'm not natural but I've seen high frequency routines work very well for natural elite powerlifters.
Yes I am familiar with Sheiko's routine and believe me that a natural athlete following that kind of routine will develop very good injuries... like the fucking injury that I developed in my abductor  :-\
S

Van_Bilderass

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2008, 02:25:39 PM »
Yes I am familiar with Sheiko's routine and believe me that a natural athlete following that kind of routine will develop very good injuries... like the fucking injury that I developed in my abductor  :-\

I will admit that high level powerlifters deal with a lot of injuries. Don't know if the frequency is that much higher than athletes who train less frequently though. They all have issues. All I know is that high frequency routines have worked well for natural athletes.

slaveboy1980

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2008, 03:22:06 PM »
lol. body88 and samson are complete morons.  :D

working a muscle twice a week doesnt automatically mean that you will overtrain or get injured.
and you should periodize your training and avoid failure training most of the time.

and yes aas users can get away with training a muscle once a week due to systematically upgraded protein synthesis. a natural will grow using the once a week setup...but protein synthesis is only upgraded for 24-48 hours (or so) after a workout for a natural, which means that your only growing for a day or two after a workout. very inefficient. train the muscle twice a week and you will be growing more days per week.



MONSTER_TRICEPS

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #55 on: May 28, 2008, 03:51:07 PM »
I train everything 2 times a weak and I'm natural.

Works perfectly for me.

slaveboy1980

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #56 on: May 28, 2008, 04:00:50 PM »

I never said to do endless pumping. You can accomplish exactly what you are pushing using about 70 percent of your 1rm with different methods than loading up the bar every time you work out. Supersets is one of the may ways to do it. You can grow a million different ways, and a smart trainer uses all methods.

For example, your pec muscle has no idea that it's benching 300 lbs. It knows that it needs to increase in size to move that weight for a certain amount of reps. If you can only get 4 reps with 300 lb's and you attempt to get 4 reps with 305 lbs the next week, thats when injuries occur. At an advanced stage, you are not going to put on muscle quickly. I could bench my 300 one week, and then work with dumbells for 5 sets of 12 hard reps (with great form) the next week. The week after that, I bench my 300 with a slight incline and go for a few more reps, then I follow that up the next week on a hammer strength machine doing drop sets till failure. It's all about shocking the muscles, and increasing weight is one of the MANY ways to do it. You can stress your muscles in many different ways, and they will have no idea about what kind of weight you are using, just that they needs to grow to accompany whatever stress you have put on it to make it fail.

I have seen skinny geeks with massive calves - ( better than a lot of bb's) who sit on the stair climber for two hours a day. They dont increase their weight every week, and if they did their calves would not grow and grow until they where 21 inches. Ob i'm not saying you should work with light weight all day long, but your method is far from the only way to train.


bullshit.

1. stop putting words in my mouth. i never claimed that strength increases is the only avenue for growth. BUT its by far the most important.
2. second paragraph is bullshit. the muscle knows tension. and increased tension is the main trigger for growth. shocking the muscles is pure bullshit. also, changing too many factors from workout to workout makes charting progress very difficult. and alot of people get lost with that kind of set up. they vary their workouts so much that they are never adding weights to the bar. = ONE OF THE MOST FREQUENT MISTAKES THAT LIFTERS MAKE.
3. third paragraph: if skinny guy with big calves wants his calves to grow he gotta use heavier and heavier weights. dont compare person A to B. its about strength increases, not relative strength.

finally ;yes, there are other ways to grow: you can increase volume to some degree to get some growth, you can lift more lbs per time unit (supersets, dropsets...less resting time between sets etc) but all these methods are secondary to strength increases as means for growth.

and obviously no one will be able to add weights every workout (unless your a complete newbie). dont know why you think im trying to say that. you have to use common sense.

body88

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2008, 04:01:18 PM »
lol. body88 and samson are complete morons.  :D

working a muscle twice a week doesnt automatically mean that you will overtrain or get injured.
and you should periodize your training and avoid failure training most of the time.

and yes aas users can get away with training a muscle once a week due to systematically upgraded protein synthesis. a natural will grow using the once a week setup...but protein synthesis is only upgraded for 24-48 hours (or so) after a workout for a natural, which means that your only growing for a day or two after a workout. very inefficient. train the muscle twice a week and you will be growing more days per week.




I bet your huge.

body88

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2008, 04:02:33 PM »
bullshit.

1. stop putting words in my mouth. i never claimed that strength increases is the only avenue for growth. BUT its by far the most important.
2. second paragraph is bullshit. the muscle knows tension. and increased tension is the main trigger for growth. shocking the muscles is pure bullshit. also, changing too many factors from workout to workout makes charting progress very difficult. and alot of people get lost with that kind of set up. they vary their workouts so much that they are never adding weights to the bar. = ONE OF THE MOST FREQUENT MISTAKES THAT LIFTERS MAKE.
3. third paragraph: if skinny guy with big calves wants his calves to grow he gotta use heavier and heavier weights. dont compare person A to B. its about strength increases, not relative strength.

finally ;yes, there are other ways to grow: you can increase volume to some degree to get some growth, you can lift more lbs per time unit (supersets, dropsets...less resting time between sets etc) but all these methods are secondary to strength increases as means for growth.

and obviously no one will be able to add weights every workout (unless your a complete newbie). dont know why you think im trying to say that. you have to use common sense.


Shit, you got me there. I am going to start training this way today! This whole five days on, two days of thing is all wrong for me. I know that when I blast my legs on Sunday, I should train them again a few days later - (when they are still sore)!


I am glad you have told me the ONLY way to train, and I look forward to you winning the Olympia a few years down the road.

Thanks boss.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2008, 04:14:33 PM »
bullshit.

1. stop putting words in my mouth. i never claimed that strength increases is the only avenue for growth. BUT its by far the most important.
2. second paragraph is bullshit. the muscle knows tension. and increased tension is the main trigger for growth. shocking the muscles is pure bullshit. also, changing too many factors from workout to workout makes charting progress very difficult. and alot of people get lost with that kind of set up. they vary their workouts so much that they are never adding weights to the bar. = ONE OF THE MOST FREQUENT MISTAKES THAT LIFTERS MAKE.
3. third paragraph: if skinny guy with big calves wants his calves to grow he gotta use heavier and heavier weights. dont compare person A to B. its about strength increases, not relative strength.

finally ;yes, there are other ways to grow: you can increase volume to some degree to get some growth, you can lift more lbs per time unit (supersets, dropsets...less resting time between sets etc) but all these methods are secondary to strength increases as means for growth.

and obviously no one will be able to add weights every workout (unless your a complete newbie). dont know why you think im trying to say that. you have to use common sense.

Agree with all but regarding the bolded part: many pros say weight doesn't matter, that you can grow huge gunz with 20lb dumbells, by sqeezing and peak contracting the muscle.  :D Then you watch their training tape and they use TOO MUCH WEIGHT, cheating on most movements. So what gives? No one really believes load doesn't matter.

Increase in tension is the primary stimulus for growth. Doesn't mean increasing load is always smart or the only parameter that causes hypertrophy.

rccs

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2008, 04:14:55 PM »

Shit, you got me there. I am going to start training this way today! This whole five days on, two days of thing is all wrong for me. I know that when I blast my legs on Sunday, I should train them again a few days later - (when they are still sore)!


I am glad you have told me the ONLY way to train, and I look forward to you winning the Olympia a few years down the road.

Thanks boss.

 ;D
S

Van_Bilderass

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2008, 04:18:21 PM »

Shit, you got me there. I am going to start training this way today! This whole five days on, two days of thing is all wrong for me. I know that when I blast my legs on Sunday, I should train them again a few days later - (when they are still sore)!


I am glad you have told me the ONLY way to train, and I look forward to you winning the Olympia a few years down the road.

Thanks boss.

What do you think of the doggcrapp training system?

Bluto

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #62 on: May 28, 2008, 04:20:53 PM »
slaveboy is one boring fuck. sounds like that idiot stuart mcrobert. maybe he got hold of his 20+ year old book.

take calves for example, of course there's a number of things you can do differently to make them grow but increase weight - for example add more reps, sets,  be more explosive on the positive, holding back on the negative, shorten rest between sets etc etc etc etc

Z

Van_Bilderass

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #63 on: May 28, 2008, 04:25:11 PM »
slaveboy is one boring fuck. sounds like that idiot stuart mcrobert. maybe he got hold of his 20+ year old book.

take calves for example, of course there's a number of things you can do differently to make them grow but increase weight - for example add more reps, sets,  be more explosive on the positive, holding back on the negative, shorten rest between sets etc etc etc etc


Where did he say otherwise?

slaveboy1980

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2008, 04:26:08 PM »

Shit, you got me there. I am going to start training this way today! This whole five days on, two days of thing is all wrong for me. I know that when I blast my legs on Sunday, I should train them again a few days later - (when they are still sore)!


I am glad you have told me the ONLY way to train, and I look forward to you winning the Olympia a few years down the road.

Thanks boss.

 im not talking about the ONLY way. im just stating the fundamental rules for building muscle.

in this thread 99% of what you have written is wrong body88.  :D


Bluto

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2008, 04:28:34 PM »
Where did he say otherwise?

i admit i skip 99 outta 100 of his posts because he's one repeative boring fuck, but from what i can remember all he ever talks about is progessively add weight to the bar, in other words the same boring bullshit boring fucks like stuart mcrobert talked about for 20 years.

why someone would go on a msg board and repeat that same boring bullshit for years and years on end is beyond me.

and he's wrong. and so is stuart mcrobert.
Z

Van_Bilderass

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2008, 04:30:26 PM »
i admit i skip 99 outta 100 of his posts because he's one repeative boring fuck, but from what i can remember all he ever talks about is progessively add weight to the bar, in other words the same boring bullshit boring fucks like stuart mcrobert talked about for 20 years.

why someone would go on a msg board and repeat that same boring bullshit for years and years on end is beyond me.

and he's wrong. and so is stuart mcrobert.
True, there's nothing new under the sun when it comes to training. Some seem interested in training theory though.

slaveboy1980

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2008, 04:31:24 PM »
Agree with all but regarding the bolded part: many pros say weight doesn't matter, that you can grow huge gunz with 20lb dumbells, by sqeezing and peak contracting the muscle.  :D Then you watch their training tape and they use TOO MUCH WEIGHT, cheating on most movements. So what gives? No one really believes load doesn't matter.

Increase in tension is the primary stimulus for growth. Doesn't mean increasing load is always smart or the only parameter that causes hypertrophy.

never claimed its the only parameter. its the MAIN parameter tho. (which isnt anything new...but obviously some people have to be reminded  :)  )

increased tension+enough metabolic work = muscle growth. (+enough food bla bla bla etc..)

strength increases with "standardized" technique.

slaveboy1980

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2008, 04:33:30 PM »
slaveboy is one boring fuck. sounds like that idiot stuart mcrobert. maybe he got hold of his 20+ year old book.

take calves for example, of course there's a number of things you can do differently to make them grow but increase weight - for example add more reps, sets,  be more explosive on the positive, holding back on the negative, shorten rest between sets etc etc etc etc

which i already stated


dont click on the thread then.  :D


Bluto

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2008, 04:33:32 PM »
True, there's nothing new under the sun when it comes to training. Some seem interested in training theory though.

im interested in training theory but slaveboy isnt interested in it, he basically says it's just one way to train and thats his way which is about keeping it simple, add weights to the bar etc.

where as in reality there's a shitload of theories and quite a few people also can show great results from those theories that are different to what he preach.

so to just subscribe to one theory is to be closed minded.
Z

slaveboy1980

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2008, 04:39:33 PM »
True, there's nothing new under the sun when it comes to training. Some seem interested in training theory though.

actually im interested in results. some people dont seem to tho.. they prefer getting a pump and shocking the muscle.

and its obvious bluto dont read the posts. he is afraid to because  i destroyed him time after time, back when i was consistantly posting on here.

slaveboy1980

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #71 on: May 28, 2008, 04:42:30 PM »
im interested in training theory but slaveboy isnt interested in it, he basically says it's just one way to train and thats his way which is about keeping it simple, add weights to the bar etc.

where as in reality there's a shitload of theories and quite a few people also can show great results from those theories that are different to what he preach.

so to just subscribe to one theory is to be closed minded.

only problem its not a theory. its reality.  (that you need to lift heavier weights to grow in the LONG run...drugs can change alot tho....and same goes for protein synthesis being elevated approx 24-48 hours after an workout...its not a theory..)

and there are certainly many ways to train. but any good training routine should focus on weight progression.

Im talking about training fundamentals. these fundamentals can be used in many ways. so in actuality im saying there are MANY ways to train. so its you who is narrowminded.

working a muscle once a week will work. but its not the most efficient way to train.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #72 on: May 28, 2008, 04:44:14 PM »
im interested in training theory but slaveboy isnt interested in it, he basically says it's just one way to train and thats his way which is about keeping it simple, add weights to the bar etc.

where as in reality there's a shitload of theories and quite a few people also can show great results from those theories that are different to what he preach.

so to just subscribe to one theory is to be closed minded.

There's a red thread to every successful training system.

Bluto

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #73 on: May 28, 2008, 04:44:32 PM »
actually im interested in results. some people dont seem to tho.. they prefer getting a pump and shocking the muscle.

and its obvious bluto dont read the posts. he is afraid to because  i destroyed him time after time, back when i was consistantly posting on here.

evidence shows that people get results that dont subscribe to your old boring keep it simple strategy. maybe you too would get better results if you changed your ways. but then you would have to have an opened mind, and risk being wrong for all those years and you probably couldnt live with that.
Z

Bluto

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #74 on: May 28, 2008, 04:45:52 PM »
only problem its not a theory. its reality.

and there are certainly many ways to train. but any good training routine should focus on weight progression.

thats what you say. log on to t-nation and you'll have a shitload of people (with ten times your experience and expertise) that disagree.

Z