Author Topic: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit  (Read 15028 times)

Van_Bilderass

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #75 on: May 28, 2008, 04:49:13 PM »
thats what you say. log on to t-nation and you'll have a shitload of people (with ten times your experience and expertise) that disagree.


A lot of the writers say the same things. I've read Poliquin saying similar stuff (e.g. bigger squat = bigger legs), Thibadeau, etc etc. They mostly differ in the finer details.

HST is about strength progression, doggcrapp is about strength progression. Different systems, same red thread.

slaveboy1980

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #76 on: May 28, 2008, 04:52:26 PM »
thats what you say. log on to t-nation and you'll have a shitload of people (with ten times your experience and expertise) that disagree.



find anyone* who disagrees with progressive tension being the main factor that causes muscle growth. (*among t-nation article writers...)

why dont you email thiboudeaux? and let me know what he says  ;D

your misreading what im saying. im not arguing there is one way to train. there are million ways to train. many of them inefficient, because people dont understand the training fundamentals. most of which has been proven since the  70s!

the theories you are discussing is actually the 5% about muscle building we dont know. what is needed for muscle growth has actually been known for 30 years or more!


Bluto

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #77 on: May 28, 2008, 04:52:29 PM »
A lot of the writers say the same things. I've read Poliquin saying similar stuff (e.g. bigger squat = bigger legs), Thibadeau, etc etc. They mostly differ in the finer details.

HST is about strength progression, doggcrapp is about strength progression. Different systems, same red thread.

strenght progression for what, strength progression? how about hypertrophy. then there's a lot of talk about all the stuff that slaveboy dislikes - other variables, angles, constant chance of exercises, pump, training each bodypart twice a week or maybe more etc

a whole other ballgame.
Z

slaveboy1980

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #78 on: May 28, 2008, 04:56:05 PM »
strenght progression for what, strength progression? how about hypertrophy. then there's a lot of talk about all the stuff that slaveboy dislikes - other variables, angles, constant chance of exercises, pump, training each bodypart twice a week or maybe more etc

a whole other ballgame.


your expanding the argument to include things i havent argued for/against. so your  arguing with yourself.


SAMSON123

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #79 on: May 28, 2008, 04:57:18 PM »
If you knew anything about powerlifting you'd know that many elite natural/clean athletes train high frequency. You obviously weren't familiar with Sheiko. I personally know some powerlifters who do very well with high frequency, lifetime natural lifters. Juicers do better with less frequency because protein synthesis is artificially elevated for longer periods of time. When I was a beginner I was sometimes sore for 10-14 days (believe it or not) after a hard leg workout. Does that mean every 14 days is the minimum I need to rest between workouts? No, the body adapts and you get less and less sore over time.

Soreness doesn't mean "tearing muscle". And even if it did, the fact that you stop getting sore after increasing frequency means the body adapts to the demands placed on it.

I know plenty about powerlifting as I incorporate a lot of it into my workouts. Being a Mesomorph body type, I can NOT follow the routine of an ectomorph whose body is slender and muscular like a track and field runner and allows them to engage in long endurance type workouts or frequent workouts hitting the same muscle groups. My workouts must be short, hard, intense and allow for adequate rest. NO POWERLIFTER WORKS OUT FREQUENTLY OR HITS ANY PART MORE THAN ONCE PER WEEK.

All of this nonsense being spoken in this link about the body growing in 3 days and adaptation is being spoken by obvious idiots. If a person was to work one body part then the body may be able to adequately heal that one part in three days. However working out is never a one body part ordeal. Monday maybe legs, Tuesday shoulders, Wednesday back, Thursday Chest, Friday arms...While the body may be healing the damage done to the legs from Mondays workout, a person has already begun damaging the tissue of the shoulder with Tuesday's work out; while the body is working on healing the shoulders while it is still repairing legs, the person is damaging that back muscles on Wednesday etc etc. So it is impossible to do one body part multiple times per week without taxing the body too much, because the body is in a constant state of repair and doing too much will overwhelm it.

The mentality that your body adapts to training no matter how much you do is like saying a person adapts to drinking over time no matter how much they drink....NO...WHAT HAPPENS IS THEY DEVELOP PERPETUAL DRUNKEDNESS AND THEN CIRROSIS OF THE LIVER AND DIE. With over training you develop tendinitis, injuries, tissue damage and sadly eventually end up in SURGERY...now who wants that?

I hope those who are reading this have enough brains to NOT follow such advice as is given in regards to OVERTRAINING. For those who are JUICING maybe your "CHEMICALS" make you feel invincible, but I guarantee you they will catch up to you. Every pro athlete regardless of the sport always ends up like an OLD MAN by the time they are in their thirties and forties because of pushing themselves and their bodies too much and juicing too much and not allowing proper recovery from injuries and training.

Some people just have to learn the HARDWAY...
C

slaveboy1980

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #80 on: May 28, 2008, 05:00:33 PM »
A lot of the writers say the same things. I've read Poliquin saying similar stuff (e.g. bigger squat = bigger legs), Thibadeau, etc etc. They mostly differ in the finer details.

HST is about strength progression, doggcrapp is about strength progression. Different systems, same red thread.

finer details= the last 5%.....
95% they agree about.

most good routines are much alike if you look at the fundamentals behind the routines.

IF YOU KNOW THE FUNDAMENTALS YOU CAN PICK APART ANY TRAINING ROUTINE AND TELL WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOESNT.


Van_Bilderass

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #81 on: May 28, 2008, 05:06:33 PM »
NO POWERLIFTER WORKS OUT FREQUENTLY OR HITS ANY PART MORE THAN ONCE PER WEEK.


Tell that to Louie Simmons and all the guys he trains. Some exercises they do EVERY FUCKING DAY! Like heavy ab work, reverse hypers, etc etc. I remember Louie being quoted saying he did 13 sessions a week himself. This was a few years ago.
Have you missed the Westside template? It's not once a week for every movement/muscle group. Some are lighter, some max effort but it's pretty frequent work.

Tell that to Brian Siders. He trains 7 days a week!

I am not saying increase frequency indiscriminately but you can train certain movements and certain bodyparts very frequently periodically with fantastic results.

You are right about elite athletes ending up near crippled. But it can happen on fairly low frequency too. Coan blew out his leg and he was a less frequent trainer.

slaveboy1980

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #82 on: May 28, 2008, 05:07:05 PM »
I know plenty about powerlifting as I incorporate a lot of it into my workouts. Being a Mesomorph body type, I can NOT follow the routine of an ectomorph whose body is slender and muscular like a track and field runner and allows them to engage in long endurance type workouts or frequent workouts hitting the same muscle groups. My workouts must be short, hard, intense and allow for adequate rest. NO POWERLIFTER WORKS OUT FREQUENTLY OR HITS ANY PART MORE THAN ONCE PER WEEK.

All of this nonsense being spoken in this link about the body growing in 3 days and adaptation is being spoken by obvious idiots. If a person was to work one body part then the body may be able to adequately heal that one part in three days. However working out is never a one body part ordeal. Monday maybe legs, Tuesday shoulders, Wednesday back, Thursday Chest, Friday arms...While the body may be healing the damage done to the legs from Mondays workout, a person has already begun damaging the tissue of the shoulder with Tuesday's work out; while the body is working on healing the shoulders while it is still repairing legs, the person is damaging that back muscles on Wednesday etc etc. So it is impossible to do one body part multiple times per week without taxing the body too much, because the body is in a constant state of repair and doing too much will overwhelm it.

The mentality that your body adapts to training no matter how much you do is like saying a person adapts to drinking over time no matter how much they drink....NO...WHAT HAPPENS IS THEY DEVELOP PERPETUAL DRUNKEDNESS AND THEN CIRROSIS OF THE LIVER AND DIE. With over training you develop tendinitis, injuries, tissue damage and sadly eventually end up in SURGERY...now who wants that?

I hope those who are reading this have enough brains to NOT follow such advice as is given in regards to OVERTRAINING. For those who are JUICING maybe your "CHEMICALS" make you feel invincible, but I guarantee you they will catch up to you. Every pro athlete regardless of the sport always ends up like an OLD MAN by the time they are in their thirties and forties because of pushing themselves and their bodies too much and juicing too much and not allowing proper recovery from injuries and training.

Some people just have to learn the HARDWAY...

totally clueless. there are so many things wrong with this post, that i dont even know where to start.

no powerlifters train a muscle more than once a week? hello?? anyone there?

as for the rest. pure bs.

slaveboy1980

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #83 on: May 28, 2008, 05:08:36 PM »
bluto still there ? 

emailing thiboudeaux? lemme know what he says.  ;)

Ursus

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #84 on: May 28, 2008, 05:12:53 PM »
If you knew anything about powerlifting you'd know that many elite natural/clean athletes train high frequency. You obviously weren't familiar with Sheiko. I personally know some powerlifters who do very well with high frequency, lifetime natural lifters. Juicers do better with less frequency because protein synthesis is artificially elevated for longer periods of time. When I was a beginner I was sometimes sore for 10-14 days (believe it or not) after a hard leg workout. Does that mean every 14 days is the minimum I need to rest between workouts? No, the body adapts and you get less and less sore over time.

Soreness doesn't mean "tearing muscle". And even if it did, the fact that you stop getting sore after increasing frequency means the body adapts to the demands placed on it.

I am natural dont even take creatine.

I once bench pressed 5x a week for 4-5 weeks and added 20-30lbs to it

slaveboy1980

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #85 on: May 28, 2008, 05:14:34 PM »
I am natural dont even take creatine.

I once bench pressed 5x a week for 4-5 weeks and added 20-30lbs to it

grease the groove!

Ursus

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #86 on: May 28, 2008, 05:17:00 PM »
grease the groove!

not quite.

My friend done that before and added 30reps to b/w dips in a week for one all out set

slaveboy1980

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #87 on: May 28, 2008, 05:19:45 PM »
not quite.

My friend done that before and added 30reps to b/w dips in a week for one all out set

grease the groove= using very high frequency for a short period inorder to bring up a lift. neural magic.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #88 on: May 28, 2008, 05:21:24 PM »
I know plenty about powerlifting

NO POWERLIFTER WORKS OUT FREQUENTLY OR HITS ANY PART MORE THAN ONCE PER WEEK.


LOL I still can't believe this comment.

Sheiko is used by many or even most top European powerlifters. It can look like this each week:
http://www.sostrength.com/profile.html

Quote
Day 1
Bench – Repetition Sequence – typically working up to 5-7 working sets of 3-2 between 80-90%

Squat – same as above

Bench – Secondary movement – this movement serves the overload purpose usually working up to 4-5 sets of 3-4 reps between 70-75%

Day 2
Deadlift Movement – Either preparatory sets and reps in the 70-75% for 4 sets of 2-4 reps or Repetition Sequence

Bench Press – Pyramid “marathon” – this is brutal without the GPP, can be up to 30 sets of 90 reps total at times working from 50-85%

Deadlift Movement – Same as #1, just depends on order of percentages for that working day

*the order of preparatory work and sequence work varies from week to week, when the prep work begins the day this forces you to work your Sequence volume work in a tired state, creating a higher work capacity and forcing the CNS to compensate or be recruited further, hopefully.

Day 3
Squat – Repetition Sequence

Bench Press – Repetition sequence

Squat – Secondary movement

Day 4
Deadlift – preparatory work

Bench Accessory work – i.e. overhead press, incline press, floor press, dips or weighted pushups

Deadlift – typically off blocks or standing on blocks

That’s the typical breakdown of a CMS/MS template.

That's squats, benches and deads done 4 times a week!


slaveboy1980

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #89 on: May 28, 2008, 05:26:33 PM »
LOL I still can't believe this comment.

samson is a complete idiot. he managed to get 99% wrong...same as body88.

Kegdrainer

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #90 on: May 28, 2008, 05:54:20 PM »
i do a 5 part split chest, shoulders, back, arms, legs. 

5-6 exercises per bodypart,  1 warmup light 15-20 reps to get form and mentally ready for it and then 2-3 working sets depending on what im doing, trying heavy enough to fail at 4-6 reps.  Some people call this Max OT.  Arms I generally do 8-10 exercises since i include supersets for forearms.  I have good strength gains that seem to me to be more measurable since once i can do more than 6 reps with good form I add more weight to force failure between 4-6 reps.

I've only been training like this for about 6 weeks now and I have seen exceptional gains and everyone I know thinks I'm on steroids now.  Just hard work and mostly clean eating/cutting down on alcohol.  Before I was doing the standard 10-12 reps for 3-4 sets, 3 exercises per bodypart, not training to failure and hitting 2-3 groups a day.  Not nearly as good results or feeling from that way of training.

for the exercises i like to change it up every week or 2 i will drop one exercise per bodypart and add another.  Just rotate different things in and out to keep it fresh, hit new angles, etc...
 

SAMSON123

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #91 on: May 28, 2008, 06:11:15 PM »
totally clueless. there are so many things wrong with this post, that i dont even know where to start.

no powerlifters train a muscle more than once a week? hello?? anyone there?

as for the rest. pure bs.

YOU HAVE NOTHING TO SAY BECAUSE I AM ABSOLUTELY RIGHT....
C

SAMSON123

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #92 on: May 28, 2008, 06:29:55 PM »
LOL I still can't believe this comment.

Sheiko is used by many or even most top European powerlifters. It can look like this each week:
http://www.sostrength.com/profile.html

That's squats, benches and deads done 4 times a week!



YOU ARE ONE DUMB ASS

Maybe you should try reading the information on the site you posted...These routines are TEMPORARILY done to increase strength for a competition...THEY ARE NOT DAILY ROUTINES DONE YEAR ROUND. There is a difference between BODYBUILDING AND POWERLIFTING, and you will NOT find a powerlifter working out like a bodybuilder who has a consistent routine that he does continuously throughout the year. WOW...you guys don't know shit. Do you think PL always work at their MAX? And frequently do ONE REP MAXES in every routine...DAILY???!!! HELL NO!!! Their workouts are more BB oriented  until competition time rolls around where the sequencing and loads handled change. Again you can not tax your body like that all the time without causing serious damage. And even with all of the care and juicing in PL within a few years the guys are nearly crippled and can't do much of anything else. Few are the Strong Man contestants that stay in that sport any length of time...WHY???? because they are damn near CRIPPLED after a few years. Too much stress, too many injuries too much taxing on the body. This is what I m trying to get across to you all, but it is NOT WORKING..
C

chaos

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #93 on: May 28, 2008, 06:33:28 PM »
if the 'pump' caused growth 90% of getbig would have 3 foot long dicks with a 20'' girth.
Are you saying there are alot of fuckers on getbig?
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Van_Bilderass

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Re: "bodybuilding routines" are bullshit
« Reply #94 on: May 28, 2008, 06:39:54 PM »
YOU ARE ONE DUMB ASS

Maybe you should try reading the information on the site you posted...These routines are TEMPORARILY done to increase strength for a competition...THEY ARE NOT DAILY ROUTINES DONE YEAR ROUND. There is a difference between BODYBUILDING AND POWERLIFTING, and you will NOT find a powerlifter working out like a bodybuilder who has a consistent routine that he does continuously throughout the year. WOW...you guys don't know shit. Do you think PL always work at their MAX? And frequently do ONE REP MAXES in every routine...DAILY???!!! HELL NO!!! Their workouts are more BB oriented  until competition time rolls around where the sequencing and loads handled change. Again you can not tax your body like that all the time without causing serious damage. And even with all of the care and juicing in PL within a few years the guys are nearly crippled and can't do much of anything else. Few are the Strong Man contestants that stay in that sport any length of time...WHY???? because they are damn near CRIPPLED after a few years. Too much stress, too many injuries too much taxing on the body. This is what I m trying to get across to you all, but it is NOT WORKING..

You didn't qualify your statement by saying they did it but it was periodized. Sheiko programs are done in the off-season too BTW. You made a point blank statement that no powerlifter works a muscle more than once weekly.

And yes, powerlifters frequently do maxes, again take a look at the Westside program. It's called max effort training and it's done most of the time, just changing movements to avoid stagnation.

This has nothing to do with how harmful it can be, that's a different discussion. Yes many of them are beat up. Many powerlifters do high frequency training, on-season and off-season and it works for getting stronger.