Author Topic: Obama the naive  (Read 881 times)

headhuntersix

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Obama the naive
« on: June 05, 2008, 07:35:25 AM »
Obama the naive
His views on world affairs ignore history and imperil the U.S. and our allies.
By John R. Bolton
June 5, 2008
» Discuss Article Barack Obama's willingness to meet with the leaders of rogue states such as Iran and North Korea "without preconditions" is a naive and dangerous approach to dealing with the hard men who run pariah states. It will be an important and legitimate issue for policy debate during the remainder of the presidential campaign.

Consider his facile observations about President Kennedy's first meeting with Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev, in Vienna in 1961. Obama saw it as a meeting that helped win the Cold War, when in fact it was an embarrassment for the American side. The inexperienced Kennedy performed so poorly that Khrushchev may well have been encouraged to position Soviet missiles in Cuba in 1962, thus precipitating one of the Cold War's most dangerous crises.

Such realities should cause Obama to become more circumspect, minimizing his off-the-cuff observations about history, grand strategy and diplomacy. In fact, he has done exactly the opposite, exhibiting so many gaps in his knowledge and understanding of world affairs that they have not yet received the attention they deserve. He consistently reveals failings in foreign policy that are far more serious than even his critics had previously imagined.

Consider the following statement, which was lost in the controversy over his comments about negotiations: "Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, these countries are tiny compared to the Soviet Union. They don't pose a serious threat to us the way the Soviet Union posed a threat to us. ... Iran, they spend 1/100th of what we spend on the military. If Iran ever tried to pose a serious threat to us, they wouldn't stand a chance."

Let's dissect this comment. Obama is correct that the rogue states he names do not present the same magnitude of threat as that posed by the Soviet Union through the possibility of nuclear war. Fortunately for us all, general nuclear war never took place. Nonetheless, serious surrogate struggles between the superpowers abounded because the Soviet Union's threat to the West was broader and more complex than simply the risk of nuclear war. Subversion, guerrilla warfare, sabotage and propaganda were several of the means by which this struggle was waged, and the stakes were high, even, or perhaps especially, in "tiny" countries.

In the Western Hemisphere, for example, the Soviets used Fidel Castro's Cuba to assist revolutionary activities in El Salvador and Nicaragua. In Western Europe, vigorous Moscow-directed communist parties challenged the democracies on their home turfs. In Africa, numerous regimes depended on Soviet military assistance to stay in power, threaten their neighbors or resist anti-communist opposition groups.

Both sides in the Cold War were anxious to keep these surrogate struggles from going nuclear, so the stakes were never "civilizational." But to say that these "asymmetric" threats were "tiny" would be news to those who struggled to maintain or extend freedom's reach during the Cold War.

Had Italy, for example, gone communist during the 1950s or 1960s, it would have been an inconvenient defeat for the United States but a catastrophe for the people of Italy. An "asymmetric" threat to the U.S. often is an existential threat to its friends, which was something we never forgot during the Cold War. Obama plainly seems to have entirely missed this crucial point. Ironically, it is he who is advocating a unilateralist policy, ignoring the risks and challenges to U.S. allies when the direct threat to us is, in his view, "tiny."

What is implicit in Obama's reference to "tiny" threats is that they are sufficiently insignificant that negotiations alone can resolve them. Indeed, he has gone even further, arguing that the lack of negotiations with Iran caused the threats: "And the fact that we have not talked to them means that they have been developing nuclear weapons, funding Hamas, funding Hezbollah."

This is perhaps the most breathtakingly naive statement of all, implying as it does that it is actually U.S. policy that motivates Iran rather than Iran's own perceived ambitions and interests. That would be news to the mullahs in Tehran, not to mention the leaders of Hamas and Hezbollah.

It is an article of faith for Obama, and many others on the left in the U.S. and abroad, that it is the United States that is mostly responsible for the world's ills. In 1984, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Jeane Kirkpatrick labeled people with these views the "San Francisco Democrats," after the city where Walter Mondale was nominated for president.

Most famously, Kirkpatrick forever seared the San Francisco Democrats by saying that "they always blame America first" for the world's problems. In so doing, she turned the name of the pre-World War II isolationist America First movement into a stigma the Democratic Party has never shaken.

This is yet another piece of history that Obama has ignored or never learned. There may be one more piece of history worthy of attention: In 1984, Mondale went down to one of the worst electoral defeats in American political history. We will now see whether Obama follows that path as well.
L

youandme

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Re: Obama the naive
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2008, 10:20:07 AM »
Like we were discussing Soros on another thread. Soros in his book "soros on soros" declared himself a Bolshevik (it's on page like 270 something) the guy is a nutcase, and the highest of hypocrites. In 1963 or so when JFK declared offshore investments in the US would be taxed 15% he pulled his money out of the US market and began writing philosophy (which he sucks at) and in some instances talked about western and eastern Europe and described himself as demonic.  ::)
I'd love to have this guy fund my campaign

Al Doggity

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Re: Obama the naive
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2008, 10:50:58 AM »
Like we were discussing Soros on another thread. Soros in his book "soros on soros" declared himself a Bolshevik (it's on page like 270 something) the guy is a nutcase, and the highest of hypocrites. In 1963 or so when JFK declared offshore investments in the US would be taxed 15% he pulled his money out of the US market and began writing philosophy (which he sucks at) and in some instances talked about western and eastern Europe and described himself as demonic.  ::)
I'd love to have this guy fund my campaign

You are really twisting your facts, here. A cursory glance at his wikipedia page will point you in the right direction:
First of all, he didn't start making serious money until the late 1970s, so your dates are off. Secondly, he never pulled his money out of the US market: something like 70% of his money is invested in American companies. He did, however, According to Wikipedia,  what you are probably referring to is when offshore fund regulations changed in the 70d, hr opted to leave the fund and start his own company, right here in America. Furthermore, Soros was a philosopher before he was a moneyman; he actually joined Wall Street to fund his love of philosophy.

I googled  the Bolshevik quote from his book and here it is:

Quote
Soros, who lamented to his interviewer in Soros on Soros that, "If there was ever a man who fit the stereotype of Judo-plutocratic Bolshevik Zionist world conspirator, it is me."

He's being sarcastic. He's making fun of those who think Jews secretly run the world.If you actually read this book, it must have been a colossal  mind fuck for you, because you couldn't have possibly understood a word.


The kind of stupidity displayed in your post is disappointing but not surprising. It's the same kind of mental midetry that makes it easy to believe having a  name that rhymes with "Osama" makes one a terrorist.

headhuntersix

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Re: Obama the naive
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2008, 12:05:25 PM »
Soros is a piece of shit..wiki is not a source.
L

Al Doggity

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Re: Obama the naive
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2008, 01:07:59 PM »
wiki is not a source.

But youandme is? He couldn't even accurately decipher a blatantly facetious quote. Wikipedia is traditionally pretty accurate. All of the information in that article can be verified elsewhere.

Nice try, though. Your grasp of sanity reality gets more tenuous by the post.

youandme

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Re: Obama the naive
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2008, 01:20:06 PM »
You are really twisting your facts, here. A cursory glance at his wikipedia page will point you in the right direction:
First of all, he didn't start making serious money until the late 1970s, so your dates are off. Secondly, he never pulled his money out of the US market: something like 70% of his money is invested in American companies. He did, however, According to Wikipedia,  what you are probably referring to is when offshore fund regulations changed in the 70d, hr opted to leave the fund and start his own company, right here in America. Furthermore, Soros was a philosopher before he was a moneyman; he actually joined Wall Street to fund his love of philosophy.

I googled  the Bolshevik quote from his book and here it is:

He's being sarcastic. He's making fun of those who think Jews secretly run the world.If you actually read this book, it must have been a colossal  mind fuck for you, because you couldn't have possibly understood a word.


The kind of stupidity displayed in your post is disappointing but not surprising. It's the same kind of mental midetry that makes it easy to believe having a  name that rhymes with "Osama" makes one a terrorist.

LMAO

Have you read the book? Did not think so.

Ok go pick it, oops sorry you only know how to read wiki.

I've read more books by him, and no that is not what his reference to bolshevik was.

Your such a stupid fuck you probably wikipedia that also.


"Wikipedia is traditionally pretty accurate"

Wow your a dumber dumb fuck than I thought

youandme

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Re: Obama the naive
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2008, 01:30:23 PM »
Wiki mus not work for you, off the top of my head from his Soros on Soros book

1953 the date to be exact when he made his money a a trainee in a Brit brokerage firm, there he learned arbitrage, he FAILED, and he failed getting a VISA to the usa 3 years later, but was able to get one his second try after filing out a affidavit of being a arbitrage trader.
AFTER JFK initiated 15% tax on foreign investments business started to dry up, Soros pilled in bonds, and other investments not related to US, at WHICH POINT he become invested in in philosophy in 1966, but decided to get back to markets to exercise his philosophy in the world.

1969 Double Eagle Fund 4 million fund, first time being able to sell short in a fund, took it to 12 mill by 1973, where he became a partner with Jim Rogers (wiki that one), 20 percent off the top 1 % off the bottim by 1979 he was worth 25 million and Jim split, Soros had a breakdown, and got risky and wild, and becme a loaner and got the fund to jump from 100 million to 400 million and by 88 it had sunk 22 percent investors pulled out, Soros, started betting against currencies, and learning of dirty float money with G5 countries leading him to large gains on large margins.

youandme

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Re: Obama the naive
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2008, 01:32:33 PM »
But youandme is? He couldn't even accurately decipher a blatantly facetious quote. Wikipedia is traditionally pretty accurate. All of the information in that article can be verified elsewhere.

Nice try, though. Your grasp of sanity reality gets more tenuous by the post.

need me to brain fuck you some more?

Al Doggity

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Re: Obama the naive
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2008, 02:21:33 PM »
I posted the Bolshevik quote. It is accurate and his meaning is  pretty hard to debate... but you gave it the ol' retard try.
 

As for your second, typically barely literate post...
*Soros was already "invested in philosophy" before he entered the financial industry.

* being employed in the finance industry and making real money in it are two different things.

*Soros worked in arbitrage until 1969 and  as an ANALYST  until 1963, which is the year JFK was assassinated. He didn't begin exploring the investment field until after JFK died.


The wiki article takes information directly from Soros book.  I guess your idea of mindfucking is  giving me a hearty laugh by proving your stupidity.

youandme

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Re: Obama the naive
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2008, 02:37:49 PM »
yeah those wiki entries are never wrong on dates  ::)

nope

Arbitrage trader till 1959, analyst till 1959 - 1963

did not start writing philosophy till 1966, your twisting the facts now. haha

he read it during his teen years but did not start activlely writing till 1966, when he got out of investing for awhile



JOHN MATRIX

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Re: Obama the naive
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2008, 02:54:08 PM »
GO OBAMA '08
GET ON THE OBAMA BUS OR BE CRUSHED BENEATH ITS GLORIOUS ROLLING WHEELS

War-Horse

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Re: Obama the naive
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2008, 03:03:00 PM »
Mccains senility will continue to progress at a rapid rate now that he has to start debating his retarded policys.........Obamas a lock on the prez title.

Al Doggity

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Re: Obama the naive
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2008, 03:08:51 PM »
yeah those wiki entries are never wrong on dates  ::)

nope

Arbitrage trader till 1959, analyst till 1959 - 1963

did not start writing philosophy till 1966, your twisting the facts now. haha

he read it during his teen years but did not start activlely writing till 1966, when he got out of investing for awhile




That was a typo on my behalf,but just reading it in context it's clear that I probably meant 1959. Regardless, it still runs counter to your point.

He was a student of Karl Popper's at university. Popper is  heavily influential in most of Soros' concepts. His interest in philosophy had nothing to do with Kennedy raising itaxes on offshore investments.

 Furthermore, Soros left his job as an analyst in 1963 for a job as an investor at another company that same year. That job lasted stretched into the 70. Soros did not take a break from working in the 60s. He had developed his theory of reflexivity before he left his job as an analyst.