Author Topic: Protein powder is a SCAM  (Read 13594 times)

BroadStreetBruiser

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8574
  • "In Falcon We Trust"
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2008, 11:53:40 AM »
I believe it. Look at homeless blacks or rasta's. one group hardly eats and the other hardly eats meat. You put two and two together.
$

candidizzle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9046
  • Trueprotein.com 5% discount code= TRB953
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2008, 11:54:11 AM »
because the people who claim to get these magic results from the supps forget to tell us about their medicine cabinet.
its VEN MORE IMPORTANT for a natural bodybuilder to use supplements. someone on steroids can grow from eating a chicken breast and some other kind of energy calories. a natural bodybuilder is constantly struggling against homeostasis and food is not THAT anabolic.. most natural bodybuilders will only get "anti catablic" results from eating meats unless they are also eating lots of carbohydrates along with those meats...    and for most guys eating lots of carbs means getting lots of fat

asupplement like whey protein digests so quickly and has the right amino acid profile that it is, initself, anabolic and results in protein synthesis.

good luck growing and staying lean as a natural without supplements or without great genetics and metabolism.

shiftedShapes

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3828
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2008, 11:55:10 AM »
It's a reasonable number.  A 175-lb'er won't fully metabolize 50g of protein taken in a single sitting. 

I don't have all my guidelines here right now, but used to have my 175ish athletes taking 30-35g per meal, 6-7 times per day. 

what athletes?  I thought you're a photographer who mostly shoots female to male transexuals?

candidizzle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9046
  • Trueprotein.com 5% discount code= TRB953
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2008, 11:55:59 AM »
It's a reasonable number.  A 175-lb'er won't fully metabolize 50g of protein taken in a single sitting. 

I don't have all my guidelines here right now, but used to have my 175ish athletes taking 30-35g per meal, 6-7 times per day. 
you honestly believe that nonsense?

trwe its pretty simple dude..;dont think abotu what the fda or your college nutrition professor told you....just think about what human beings have been feasting on since the dawn of time. meat. meat. more meat.   you really think they only ate 10-12 ounces at a time?????    8)

Camel Jockey

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16711
  • Mel Gibson and Bob Sly World Domination
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2008, 11:57:41 AM »
they deserve to be fooled.  Here I am presenting them with the scientific consensus as published by one of the most respected publications in the world.  It clearly states that there is no evidence that their high protein intakes are productive and they would rather ignore it and continue to believe second and third hand info from muscletech advertorials.

Find a controled study that shows two classes of athletes - one group with a high protein intake,  the other at 15 grams a day. Measure lean body mass after a few months and present your case to us "meatheads"

Better yet, lift weights and take in your 15 grams a day and see where that takes you.

Funny thing to me is that while you cite these studies, you can't distinguish protein intake from supplements. There are plenty here that don't even buy supplements, and get their protein from real food.

Knives

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 833
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2008, 11:58:27 AM »
why is it the people who claim supplements are a scam are never very big?

maybe because they're not AAS/GH/Insulin abusing bodybuilders who want to scam you?

shiftedShapes

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3828
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2008, 11:58:49 AM »
its VEN MORE IMPORTANT for a natural bodybuilder to use supplements. someone on steroids can grow from eating a chicken breast and some other kind of energy calories. a natural bodybuilder is constantly struggling against homeostasis and food is not THAT anabolic.. most natural bodybuilders will only get "anti catablic" results from eating meats unless they are also eating lots of carbohydrates along with those meats...    and for most guys eating lots of carbs means getting lots of fat

asupplement like whey protein digests so quickly and has the right amino acid profile that it is, initself, anabolic and results in protein synthesis.

good luck growing and staying lean as a natural without supplements or without great genetics and metabolism.

did you even read the article?  there is no evidence to support your theories.

shiftedShapes

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3828
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2008, 12:00:47 PM »
Find a controled study that shows two classes of athletes - one group with a high protein intake,  the other at 15 grams a day. Measure lean body mass after a few months and present your case to us "meatheads"

Better yet, lift weights and take in your 15 grams a day and see where that takes you.

Funny thing to me is that while you cite these studies, you can't distinguish protein intake from supplements. There are plenty here that don't even buy supplements, and get their protein from real food.

read the article

your high protein intake of real food is based on the propaganda of supplement companies that want you to believe that high protein is essential to peak performance and building muscle so that you are more likely to buy their products to meet your protein "requirements."

El Guapo

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 497
  • Don't hate me cause I'm beautiful
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2008, 12:00:54 PM »
did you even read the article?  there is no evidence to support your theories.

not that I 100% agree with dizzle but i guess you gotta do waht you think works for you.

candidizzle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9046
  • Trueprotein.com 5% discount code= TRB953
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2008, 12:01:09 PM »
did you even read the article?  there is no evidence to support your theories.
human beings have been eating oatmeal and rice and wheat bread since the dawn of time...  ::)  oh brother

shiftedShapes

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3828
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2008, 12:02:17 PM »
maybe because they're not AAS/GH/Insulin abusing bodybuilders who want to scam you?

HAHAHAAHAHA

Tre

  • Expert
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16549
  • "What you don't have is a career."
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2008, 12:05:16 PM »
what athletes?  I thought you're a photographer who mostly shoots female to male transexuals?

I was a fitness consultant back in the day, but wasn't focused on growing that into a viable business, so I gravitated toward the photography instead.  

Team Diver

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1436
  • Squeeeeze!!!
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2008, 12:09:18 PM »
Guys, tell me something!!
I think it's not that hard to get the required (?) amount of protein from regular food. 5-6 meals with a normal portion of chicken breast/fish/eggs etc. and you are done. Still, protein powder is a big business, hundreds of products etc.

But I have serious problems with complex carbs. Some people say you have to eat 4-5g/bodyweight kg carbs per day when bulking. That's 500 grams of dry rice per day for a 80 kg man, which is a huge amount when cooked. Even if you try to eat it in 5-6 parts. The same with oatmeal. I need low GI complex carb powder, are there any?  >:(

candidizzle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9046
  • Trueprotein.com 5% discount code= TRB953
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2008, 12:10:51 PM »
That's 500 grams of dry rice per day for a 80 kg man, which is a huge amount when cooked. Even if you try to eat it in 5-6 parts. The same with oatmeal. I need low GI complex carb powder, are there any?  >:(
  brown rice and otameal are actually moderately digesting carbohydrates.... you want low glycemic carbs try ezekiel bread, all kinds of beans, barley, and veggies

Marty Champions

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 36433
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2008, 12:11:47 PM »
you dont lose muscle no matter how low your protien is

you simply just shrink

the pathways and structures of circulation and function are still there just dryed out from any lack of nutrient

soon as you add 'things' back in. those things or nutritients go to the area it correlates with
A

shiftedShapes

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3828
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2008, 12:13:10 PM »
human beings have been eating oatmeal and rice and wheat bread since the dawn of time...  ::)  oh brother

did you even research your fad diet before you adopted it.  Here 5 seconds of googling found me the paleo wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet

Criticism of the Paleolithic diet

[edit] Comparative life expectancy
One of the most frequent criticisms of the Paleolithic diet is that it is unlikely that preagricultural hunter-gatherers suffered from the diseases of modern civilization simply because they did not live long enough to develop these illnesses, which are typically associated with old age.[12][16][86][87][88] In response to this argument, advocates of the paleodiet state that while Paleolithic hunter-gatherers did have a short average life expectancy, modern human populations with lifestyles resembling that of our preagricultural ancestors have no or little diseases of affluence, despite sufficient numbers of elderly.[16][89]


[edit] Causes of the diseases of affluence
Critics further contend that food energy excess, rather than the consumption of specific novel foods, such as grains and dairy products, underlies the diseases of affluence. According to Geoffrey Cannon,[12] science and health policy advisor to the World Cancer Research Fund, humans are designed to work physically hard to produce food for subsistence and to survive periods of acute food shortage, and are not adapted to a diet rich in energy-dense foods.[90] Similarly, William R. Leonard, a professor of anthropology at Northwestern University, states that the health problems facing industrial societies stem not from deviations from a specific ancestral diet but from an imbalance between calories consumed and calories burned, a state of energy excess uncharacteristic of ancestral lifestyles.[91]


[edit] Evolutionary logic
The evolutionary assumptions underlying the Paleolithic diet have also been disputed.[13][19][27] According to Alexander Ströhle, Maike Wolters and Andreas Hahn,[19] with the Department of Food Science at the University of Hannover, the statement that the human genome evolved during the Pleistocene (a period from 1,808,000 to 11,550 years ago) is resting on an inadequate, but popular gene-centered view of evolution. They argue that evolution of organisms cannot be reduced to the genetic level with reference to mutation and that there is no one to one relationship between genotype and phenotype.[92]

 
High-insulinogenic foods, like refined grains, were introduced in the human diet only about 200 years ago.[93]They further question the notion that 10,000 years since the dawn of agriculture is a period not nearly sufficient to ensure an adequate adaptation to agrarian diets.[19] Refering to Wilson D.S. (1994),[94] Ströhle et al. argue that "the number of generations that a species existed in the old environment was irrelevant, and that the response to the change of the environment of a species would depend on the hereditability of the traits, the intensity of selection and the number of generations that selection acts."[93] They state that if the diet of Neolithic agriculturalists had been in discordance with their physiology, then this would have created a selection pressure for evolutionary change and modern humans, such as Europeans, whose ancestors have subsisted on agrarian diets for 400–500 generations should be somehow adequately adapted to it. In response to this argument, Wolfgang Kopp states that "we have to take into account that death from atherosclerosis and cardiovascular disease (CVD) occurs later during life, as a rule after the reproduction phase. Even a high mortality from CVD after the reproduction phase will create little selection pressure. Thus, it seems that a diet can be functional (it keeps us going) and dysfunctional (it causes health problems) at the same time."[93] Moreover, S. Boyd Eaton and colleagues have indicated that "comparative genetic data provide compelling evidence against the contention that long exposure to agricultural and industrial circumstances has distanced us, genetically, from our Stone Age ancestors."[16] According to Kopp, the implementation of high-glycemic and high-insulinogenic food, like refined cereals and sugars, into human nutrition only about 200 years, or 10 generations, ago, occurred too recently on an evolutionary time scale for the human genome to adjust.[93]

According to Ströhle et al.,[19] "whatever is the fact, to think that a dietary factor is valuable (functional) to the organism only when there was ‘genetical adaptation’ and hence a new dietary factor is dysfunctional per se because there was no evolutionary adaptation to it, such a panselectionist misreading of biological evolution seems to be inspired by a naive adaptationistic view of life."[95][96]

Katharine Milton, a professor of physical anthropology at the University of California, has also disputed the evolutionary logic upon which the Paleolithic diet is based. She questions the premise that the metabolism of modern humans must be genetically adapted to the dietary conditions of the Paleolithic.[13] According to Milton,[13] "there is little evidence to suggest that human nutritional requirements or human digestive physiology were significantly affected by such diets at any point in human evolution."[97][98][99][100]


[edit] Criticism of low-carbohydrate and high-protein versions
The high protein and low-carbohydrate diet[e] recommended by Loren Cordain and colleagues based on the dietary patterns of worldwide modern-day hunter-gatherers[45][49][101] has attracted a number of criticisms,[12][102] including the following:


[edit] Therapeutic merits
It has been argued that relative freedom from degenerative diseases was, and still is, characteristic of all hunter-gatherer societies irrespective of the macronutrient characteristics of their diets.[18][103][104] Katharine Milton states that "hunter-gatherer societies, both recent and ancestral, displayed a wide variety of plant-animal subsistence ratios, illustrating the adaptability of human metabolism to a broad range of energy substrates. Because all hunter-gatherer societies are largely free of chronic degenerative disease, there seems little justification for advocating the therapeutic merits of one type of hunter-gatherer diet over another."[103]

According to Marion Nestle, a professor in the Department of Nutrition and Food Studies at New York University, judging from research relating nutritional factors to chronic disease risks and to observations of exceptionally low chronic disease rates among people eating vegetarian, Mediterranean and Asian diets, it seems clear that plant-based diets are most associated with health and longevity.[11][21]

Ströhle, Wolters and Hahn[19] argue that hunters like the Inuit, who traditionally obtain most of their dietary energy from wild animals and therefore eat a low-carbohydrate diet,[105] seem to have a high mortality from coronary heart disease,[106] and that many populations of horticulturists, pastoralists and simple agriculturists living today are ingesting a high-carbohydrate diet without having signs and symptoms of CHD.[57][59][107][108][109] In response to this criticism, Wolfgang Kopp states that "carbohydrate food, consumed by hunter-gatherers, is high in fiber and low-glycemic in effect,[110][111] eliciting small amounts of insulin only. [...] Are high-carbohydrate diets atherogenic per se? Not if they have a low glycemic load. In this point, Stroehle et al. are right. However, it is the question, whether diets high in low-glycemic plant food (which is relatively high in indigestible fiber and relatively low in carbohydrate) should be labeled as “high-carbohydrate” diets."[93] Kopp also says that it is very likely that diets with only a moderately increased glycemic load are atherogenic to some degree.[66][112]

According to Erica Frank, professor of health care at the University of British Columbia, eating an animal also involves absorbing the toxins stored in its body fat. She quotes the EPA: "The average American intake is between 300 and 500 times the safe daily dose of dioxin."[20] She argues that dioxin, which is stored in animal fat, is a cancer-causing substance and disrupts hormones and the immune system. "People would be in error if they think they're doing themselves a service by eating bison."[20]


[edit] Anthropological evidence
 
Carbohydrate rich root vegetables may have been eaten in high amounts by Paleolithic humans.[113]Critics have argued that there are insufficient data to determine the average daily intake of animal and plant foods by Paleolithic humans.[13][14][21][96][114] Furthermore, according to Katharine Milton, "data from ethnographic studies of nineteenth and twentieth century hunter-gatherers, as well as historical accounts and the archeological record, suggest that ancestral hunter-gatherers enjoyed a rich variety of different diets. Thus estimates of nutrient proportions for "the Paleolithic diet" are hypothetical, at best."[13] Echoing Milton's criticism, Ströhle et al.[19] argue that it is questionable if all hunter-gatherers living between 150,000 and 10,000 years ago in different geographical regions ate a low-carbohydrate diet.[1][115][116] They indicate that, because the plant–animal subsistence ratios of contemporary hunter-gatherers vary in a remarkable manner (0–90% food from gathering; 10–100% food from hunting and fishing),[117][118] it is likely that the macronutrient intake of preagricultural humans varied enormously.[115]

They also refer to a hypothesis (the 'Plant underground storage organs hypotheses') that suggests that carbohydrate tubers were eaten in high amounts by our preagricultural ancestors.[113][119][120][121] They add:[19] "Provided that humans are incapable of metabolizing high amounts of dietary protein and given the fact that wild African mammals are relatively low in fat, a diet supplemented with carbohydrates from tubers seems to be more efficient in meeting the energy requirements of early hunters and gatherers than a diet based on lean meat."[122][123] Ströhle et al. further mention that Staffan Lindeberg, an advocate of the Paleolithic diet, has accounted for a plant-based diet rich in carbohydrates as being consistent with the human evolutionary past.[1][3]

Camel Jockey

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16711
  • Mel Gibson and Bob Sly World Domination
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2008, 12:16:09 PM »
read the article

your high protein intake of real food is based on the propaganda of supplement companies that want you to believe that high protein is essential to peak performance and building muscle so that you are more likely to buy their products to meet your protein "requirements."

I have.

Quote
Although studies by Dr. Jeukendrup and several others have shown that consuming protein after exercise speeds up muscle protein synthesis, no one has shown that that translates into improved performance. The reason, Dr. Jeukendrup said, is that effects on performance, if they occur, won’t happen immediately. They can take 6 to 10 weeks of training. That makes it very hard to design and carry out studies to see if athletes really do improve if they consume protein after they exercise.

You said protein wasn't needed. The article states that consuming protein speeds up protein synthesis, which is important for any bodybuilder, recreational lifter, and athelete.

You fail.

Camel Jockey

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16711
  • Mel Gibson and Bob Sly World Domination
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2008, 12:18:40 PM »
you dont need much more than 10 grams of protien per day as pathetic as many of you train for the people who train decently like me no more than 80

let the rest of calories come from fruit, even carrot juice is damn good

Read the article.

Quote
Although studies by Dr. Jeukendrup and several others have shown that consuming protein after exercise speeds up muscle protein synthesis, no one has shown that that translates into improved performance. The reason, Dr. Jeukendrup said, is that effects on performance, if they occur, won’t happen immediately. They can take 6 to 10 weeks of training. That makes it very hard to design and carry out studies to see if athletes really do improve if they consume protein after they exercise.

candidizzle

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9046
  • Trueprotein.com 5% discount code= TRB953
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2008, 12:18:54 PM »
did you even research your fad diet before you adopted it.  Here 5 seconds of googling found me the paleo wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet

YEAH, okay meat is a fad diet...  ::)

shifted im nto going to play skool teacher here on the g & o.. maybe if you ever want to get past tha 145 lb mark so so happily wear start a thread on the nutrition board and i might fill you in

Nordic Beast

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4895
  • Old World Values
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2008, 12:20:12 PM »
why is it the people who claim supplements are a scam are never very big?
hahha its so true------its always some old scrawny middle-aged guy at the gym who knows everything except how to not be both skinny and fat at the same time----or the 155lb personal trainer who are trying to lecture me on why protein isnt nessecary to build muscle


how do you seriously keep a straight face when someone with 60-70lbs less muscle is "setting you straight"

Camel Jockey

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16711
  • Mel Gibson and Bob Sly World Domination
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2008, 12:22:36 PM »
Quote
Although studies by Dr. Jeukendrup and several others have shown that consuming protein after exercise speeds up muscle protein synthesis, no one has shown that that translates into improved performance. The reason, Dr. Jeukendrup said, is that effects on performance, if they occur, won’t happen immediately. They can take 6 to 10 weeks of training. That makes it very hard to design and carry out studies to see if athletes really do improve if they consume protein after they exercise.

“You’d have to control everything, what they do, how they train, and also their carbohydrate and protein intake,” Dr. Jeukendrup said. “Those studies become almost impossible to do.”

These researchers haven't even shown how they've come to their conclusions, dumbass.

They haven't even done a controled study.  ;D I mean the best way to prove their claims would be to take two classes of weightlifters and athletes and have them consume different amounts of protein for 10 weeks and then look at the results afterwards. The atheletes would need to be of similar background, weight, lifestyle etc.

Nordic Beast

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4895
  • Old World Values
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2008, 12:24:31 PM »
this is the same bullshit recycled schtick from 2 years ago to try to get a response----boring :-\

its not even worth arguing about CJ--------


look at daddywaddy since he's discovered he doesnt need that much protein---he hasnt grown any



Camel Jockey

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 16711
  • Mel Gibson and Bob Sly World Domination
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2008, 12:26:01 PM »
hahha its so true------its always some old scrawny middle-aged guy at the gym who knows everything except how to not be both skinny and fat at the same time----or the 155lb personal trainer who are trying to lecture me on why protein isnt nessecary to build muscle


how do you seriously keep a straight face when someone with 60-70lbs less muscle is "setting you straight"


The article doesn't even prove anything. Infact, it speculates about the amount of carbs and protein an athlete would need to consume after exercise.

No controled study done because they claim it's difficult. Pretty much a bunch of old people who weigh 140 lbs mouthing off without any measured study.

And it in no way states that a fair amount of protein isn't needed for someone who lifts weights.

shiftedShapes

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3828
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2008, 12:27:54 PM »
I have.

You said protein wasn't needed. The article states that consuming protein speeds up protein synthesis, which is important for any bodybuilder, recreational lifter, and athelete.

You fail.

yeah no more than 20 grams after a workout, which is once or twice a day at most.  This is what the research supports, So now explain to me why your stupid ass thinks that you need 100s of grams of protein.  

Nordic Beast

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4895
  • Old World Values
Re: Protein powder is a SCAM
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2008, 12:30:03 PM »
The article doesn't even prove anything. Infact, it speculates about the amount of carbs and protein an athlete would need to consume after exercise.

No controled study done because they claim it's difficult. Pretty much a bunch of old people who weigh 140 lbs mouthing off without any measured study.

And it in no way states that a fair amount of protein isn't needed for someone who lifts weights.
hahah this idiot didnt even really read his article---just another cut and paste hero

god this little schtick was played out years ago on getbig------find something creative and new to bullshit about at least