Author Topic: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself  (Read 1982 times)

Colossus_500

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Cocky Ignorance
Thomas Sowell (townhall.com)
Tuesday, June 10, 2008

Now that Senator Barack Obama has become the Democrats' nominee for President of the United States, to the cheers of the media at home and abroad, he has written a letter to the Secretary of Defense, in a tone as if he is already President, addressing one of his subordinates.

The letter ends: "I look forward to your swift response."

With wars going on in both Iraq and Afghanistan, a Secretary of Defense might have some other things to look after, before making a "swift response" to a political candidate.

Because of the widely publicized statistic that suicide rates among American troops have gone up, Senator Obama says he wants the Secretary of Defense to tell him, swiftly:

"What changes will you make to provide our soldiers in theater with real access to mental health care?"

"What training has the Pentagon provided our medical professionals in theater to recognize who might be at risk of committing suicide?"

"What assistance are you providing families here at home to recognize the risk factors for suicide, so that they may help our service members get the assistance they need?"

"What programs has the Pentagon implemented to help reduce the stigma attached to mental health concerns so that service members are more likely to seek appropriate care?"

All this sounds very plausible, as so many other things that Senator Obama says sound plausible. But, like so many of those other things, it will not stand up under scrutiny.

What has been widely publicized in the media is that suicides among American troops have gone up. What has not been widely publicized is that this higher suicide rate is still not as high as the suicide rate among demographically comparable civilians.

No one needs to be reminded that suicide is a serious matter, whether among soldiers or civilians. But the media have managed to create the impression that it is military service overseas which is the cause of suicides among American troops, when civilians of the same ages and other demographic characteristics are committing suicide at an even higher rate at home.

Moreover, this is not the first time that military service overseas has been portrayed in the media as the cause of problems that are worse in the civilian population at home.

The New York Times led the way in making homicides committed by returning military veterans a front page story, blaming this on "combat trauma and the stress of deployment." Yet the New York Post showed that the homicide rate among returning veterans is a fraction of the homicide rate among demographically comparable civilians.

In other words, if military veterans are not completely immune to the problems found among civilians at home, then the veterans' problems are to be blamed on military service-- at least by the mainstream media.

Does Senator Obama know how the rate of suicides or homicides among military veterans compares to the rate of suicides or homicides among their civilian counterparts? Do the facts matter to him, as compared to an opportunity to score political points?

Perhaps even more important, do the media even care whether Senator Obama knows what he is talking about? Or is the symbolism of "the first black President" paramount, even if that means a President with cocky ignorance at a time of national danger?

The media have been crucial to Barack Obama's whole candidacy. His only achievements of national significance in his entire career have been media achievements and rhetorical achievements.

Perhaps his greatest achievement has been running as a candidate with an image wholly incompatible with what he has actually been doing for decades. This man who is now supposedly going to "unite" us has for years worked hand in glove, and contributed both his own money and the taxpayers' money, to people who have sought to divide us in the most crude demagogic ways.

With all his expressed concern about the war in Iraq, he has not set foot in Iraq for more than two years-- including the very years when progress has been made against the terrorists there.

You don't need to know the facts when you have cocky ignorance and the media behind you.

Copyright © 2008 Salem Web Network. All Rights Reserved.

headhuntersix

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2008, 07:01:56 AM »
Great article....yep just run ur race and let dipshit hang himself. But like the article says , if the media is behind u it will be tough to do. The damm Army does plenty for suicide prevention. There is almost nothing else we can practically do.
L

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2008, 07:07:56 AM »
I would think a swift response would be appropriate, if people are dying everyday as a result of this problem.

So you think otherwise?  The best way to help a suicidal person is to wait 4-6 weeks?

Obama desires a swift response to an urgent matter.  HH6, I'm sure the "Army does plenty for suicide prevention", but it seems it's not enough, since they're killing themselves in record numbers.

headhuntersix

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2008, 07:13:34 AM »
Look dude..u have no idea what ur talking about..no idea. People are not killing themselves in record numbers, we're less then the average American suicide rate. Also we do plenty...please tell me how many friggen suicide prevention classes u sit through for ur job. I have to do a damm slide class and sit through hours of that shit every 3 months. I've actually delt with guys being suicidal...how many have u had to deal with. Obama is once aqhain talking out his ass on a subject he knows nothing about. He wants to show that he's doing something when he's using an unfortunate circumstance for political gain...he's full of shit.
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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2008, 07:21:15 AM »
God lord.

"I look forward to your swift response" is an acceptable ending salutation, I've had that in communication to do with my business from Americans many times. Surely the education sytem is not so bad people don't know that?

That is scraping the bottom of the barrel to the 50th degree. I think maybe lying is better than this one.

What is next? Condemning him for starting a letter with "Dear" ::)

headhuntersix

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2008, 07:29:18 AM »
I don't think thats the issue. Its obama talkinig out his ass. maybe if he got some Army folks on his staff maybe he they could bore him to deathw ith the friggen tons of suicide prevention crap we have  to endure. Its the best damm program of any private or public entity anywhere.
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Decker

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2008, 07:59:09 AM »
What an article.  A tour de force.  Thomas Sowell sounds like a snot-nosed punk in his tone and critique.  I'm glad to see he's changing the tone of political punditry.

Tools like Sowell make me sick.  "What has not been widely publicized is that this higher suicide rate is still not as high as the suicide rate among demographically comparable civilians."

 Awareness of suicide among Iraq and Afghanistan veterans was heightened earlier this year when the Army said its suicide rate in 2006 rose to 17.3 per 100,000 troops -- the highest level in 26 years of record-keeping.

After leaving the military, however, veterans appear to be at greater risk for suicide than those who didn't serve. Earlier this year, researchers at Portland State University in Oregon found male veterans were twice as likely to commit suicide as their civilian counterparts.
http://www.thehawkeye.com/print/MilitarySuicide_121407
 

This guy is such an indifferent horse's ass to our military people just so he can score some political points against Obama. 


Mental disorders are on the rise among Afghanistan, Iraq veterans
http://www.ptsdsupport.net/mental_disorders_riseing.html

As many as one out of four veterans of Afghanistan and Iraq treated at Veterans Affairs hospitals in the past 16 months were diagnosed with mental disorders, a number that has been steadily rising, according to a report in Thursday's New England Journal of Medicine.

headhuntersix

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2008, 08:02:02 AM »
Ok...so what more needs to be done.....look Obama does not care..u can't convince me that he does. He knows he has found something he can use.
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Decker

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2008, 08:04:32 AM »
Ok...so what more needs to be done.....look Obama does not care..u can't convince me that he does. He knows he has found something he can use.
I say we take the Conservative approach by ignoring the problem while scoring cheap political points by belittling democrats who have a plan.

headhuntersix

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2008, 08:05:53 AM »
He has no plan..whats his plan......no plan no plan..he's power point deep on this as usual. He got briefed by one of his useful idiots and decided to make an issue out of something we're doing alot about.
L

Decker

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2008, 08:11:23 AM »
He has no plan..whats his plan......no plan no plan..he's power point deep on this as usual. He got briefed by one of his useful idiots and decided to make an issue out of something we're doing alot about.
Harkin, Hagel, Obama Take Action to Prevent Suicide Among Active Duty Soldiers

Specifically, the Armed Forces Suicide Prevention Act will:

Conduct a service-wide mental health campaign to reduce the stigma associated with mental health issues, encourage people to seek help when needed, and increase awareness that mental health is essential to overall health and that treatments can promote recovery from mental illness. The campaign should raise awareness about assistance for substance abuse issues, as well as relationship and financial difficulties.

An outreach campaign should also focus health professionals both on and off military installations to raise awareness of the health needs of returning military personnel.

Implement annual suicide prevention training of all active duty, Reserve, and National Guard members and involve military leadership in outreach efforts by incorporating suicide prevention training in officer and senior enlisted training courses.

Strengthen basic lifesaver training and training for military medics and medical personnel to incorporate recognition of risk factors for suicide, identification of signs and symptoms of mental health issues, and protocols for responding to crisis situations involving members of the Armed Forces who may be at high risk for suicide.
 
Utilize crisis response teams within units to prevent and respond to traumatic events. Such teams will consist of key personnel such as medical staff, chaplains, family support staff, and peers.

Provide post-deployment follow-up and assistance for family members and peers of members of the Armed Services on mental health problems, substance use, and financial and relationship difficulties, including information on resources to address these issues.

Provides resources to the Department of Defense to examine innovative and effective strategies to recruit qualified uniformed mental health professionals.
Provides resources to the Department of Defense to examine innovative and effective ways to fight the stigma associated with seeking mental health treatment.

http://obama.senate.gov/press/080131-harkin_hagel_ob/


So it looks like a plan is out there.

Where's McCain's plan?

youandme

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2008, 08:11:55 AM »
He's not president, what even gives him a right to communicae to the SofD asking for answers?

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2008, 08:14:51 AM »
He's not president, what even gives him a right to communicae to the SofD asking for answers?

foreign leaders began meeting with all 3 candidates months ago.  I think both Obama and Mccain should be meeting with their potential co-workers, so whoever wins is ready on day 1 to start fixing things and implementing their policies. 

Do we want Obama and Mccain spending the first 6 months of office, just getting the know these people?  Or would we rather they do it now, so they can actually start working on jan 20?

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2008, 08:18:05 AM »
I have a strong suspicion that at least part of the increased #s of mental illness is due to increased reporting.  It is far more recognized & discussed openly now.  Of course, the media has jumped all over it.  The plan Decker summarized doesn't sound unreasonable but not sure thats the most important issue to put pressure on the sec of def right now.

Although suicide rates are important, the war and ascertaining our exact progress is of first importance.  We are still in a mode of war.  Going to Iraq and talking to the military commanders is more important right now.  Its unbelieveable that he has not gone to Iraq in 2 yrs.  He wants to be our commander in chief?

youandme

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2008, 08:22:42 AM »
foreign leaders began meeting with all 3 candidates months ago.  I think both Obama and Mccain should be meeting with their potential co-workers, so whoever wins is ready on day 1 to start fixing things and implementing their policies. 

Do we want Obama and Mccain spending the first 6 months of office, just getting the know these people?  Or would we rather they do it now, so they can actually start working on jan 20?

yes it's called the "honeymoon" period.

+ McCain most likely already knows a handful of them as it is

headhuntersix

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2008, 08:25:02 AM »
Harkin, Hagel, Obama Take Action to Prevent Suicide Among Active Duty Soldiers

Specifically, the Armed Forces Suicide Prevention Act will:

Conduct a service-wide mental health campaign to reduce the stigma associated with mental health issues, encourage people to seek help when needed, and increase awareness that mental health is essential to overall health and that treatments can promote recovery from mental illness. The campaign should raise awareness about assistance for substance abuse issues, as well as relationship and financial difficulties.

An outreach campaign should also focus health professionals both on and off military installations to raise awareness of the health needs of returning military personnel.

Implement annual suicide prevention training of all active duty, Reserve, and National Guard members and involve military leadership in outreach efforts by incorporating suicide prevention training in officer and senior enlisted training courses.

Strengthen basic lifesaver training and training for military medics and medical personnel to incorporate recognition of risk factors for suicide, identification of signs and symptoms of mental health issues, and protocols for responding to crisis situations involving members of the Armed Forces who may be at high risk for suicide.
 
Utilize crisis response teams within units to prevent and respond to traumatic events. Such teams will consist of key personnel such as medical staff, chaplains, family support staff, and peers.

Provide post-deployment follow-up and assistance for family members and peers of members of the Armed Services on mental health problems, substance use, and financial and relationship difficulties, including information on resources to address these issues.

Provides resources to the Department of Defense to examine innovative and effective strategies to recruit qualified uniformed mental health professionals.
Provides resources to the Department of Defense to examine innovative and effective ways to fight the stigma associated with seeking mental health treatment.

http://obama.senate.gov/press/080131-harkin_hagel_ob/


So it looks like a plan is out there.

Where's McCain's plan?

We do this....all or most of it.
L

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2008, 08:26:25 AM »
yes it's called the "honeymoon" period.

+ McCain most likely already knows a handful of them as it is

yeah, but we're in the middle of a war, recession, etc.

I hope whoever wins in Nov will spend the next 2 months working 80-hour weeks, meeting everyone, making plans, etc, so they can start fixing things.

I'm sure there are a lot of soldiers that will die, and americans that will lose their jobs, during this 'honeymoon period'.  By making it as short as possible, america wins.

Decker

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2008, 08:33:40 AM »
We do this....all or most of it.
I don't know about that.  The link doesn't even work:  http://mentalhealth.va.gov

Looks like they got some work to do.

a_joker10

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2008, 08:34:24 AM »
14 soldiers were killed in Iraq last month.

Hopefully less this month. While at the same time engaging Al Qaeda and JAM.

The best answer is for America to get behind their troops and work towards a successful outcome in Iraq.

Obama and the democrats are performing a major disservice to the military by not wanting to provide a winnable solution.

As long as Obama doesn't go to Iraq he came claim ignorance towards the issue. Because facts don't matter.

BTW UAE is opening an embassy in Iraq this month, and the Arab league has been signaling the government for months not to leave Iraq.
Many thought it was impossible for Arabs to support a Shia government in Iraq, but that is happening.
Z

headhuntersix

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2008, 08:52:05 AM »
I don't know about that.  The link doesn't even work:  http://mentalhealth.va.gov

Looks like they got some work to do.

Decker...fly out here and sit through the bullshit. We do alot, i'm sure we could do more...but that costs money. U can always do more. I would expect we doing as much as we can.

Let me go down the list as well as i can...

Implement annual suicide prevention training of all active duty, Reserve, and National Guard members and involve military leadership in outreach efforts by incorporating suicide prevention training in officer and senior enlisted training courses...WE DO THIS.  10 min phone call to the Pentagon could have cleared this up.

Conduct a service-wide mental health campaign to reduce the stigma associated with mental health issues, encourage people to seek help when needed, and increase awareness that mental health is essential to overall health and that treatments can promote recovery from mental illness. The campaign should raise awareness about assistance for substance abuse issues, as well as relationship and financial difficulties. WE DO THIS...i guess u could package it differently.

Strengthen basic lifesaver training and training for military medics and medical personnel to incorporate recognition of risk factors for suicide, identification of signs and symptoms of mental health issues, and protocols for responding to crisis situations involving members of the Armed Forces who may be at high risk for suicide. WE DO THIS..again Obama pick up the phone.


Utilize crisis response teams within units to prevent and respond to traumatic events. Such teams will consist of key personnel such as medical staff, chaplains, family support staff, and peers. WE DO THIS...PHONE


Provide post-deployment follow-up and assistance for family members and peers of members of the Armed Services on mental health problems, substance use, and financial and relationship difficulties, including information on resources to address these issues.

Provides resources to the Department of Defense to examine innovative and effective strategies to recruit qualified uniformed mental health professionals.
Provides resources to the Department of Defense to examine innovative and effective ways to fight the stigma associated with seeking mental health treatment

Sure go ahead..all for it.





L

Colossus_500

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2008, 09:37:33 AM »
a snot-nosed punk in his tone and critique.

This very statement probably identifies a good 60-70% of the individuals on this particular board.  lol

Decker

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2008, 09:40:54 AM »
Decker...fly out here and sit through the bullshit. We do alot, i'm sure we could do more...but that costs money. U can always do more. I would expect we doing as much as we can.

Let me go down the list as well as i can...

Implement annual suicide prevention training of all active duty, Reserve, and National Guard members and involve military leadership in outreach efforts by incorporating suicide prevention training in officer and senior enlisted training courses...WE DO THIS.  10 min phone call to the Pentagon could have cleared this up.

Conduct a service-wide mental health campaign to reduce the stigma associated with mental health issues, encourage people to seek help when needed, and increase awareness that mental health is essential to overall health and that treatments can promote recovery from mental illness. The campaign should raise awareness about assistance for substance abuse issues, as well as relationship and financial difficulties. WE DO THIS...i guess u could package it differently.

Strengthen basic lifesaver training and training for military medics and medical personnel to incorporate recognition of risk factors for suicide, identification of signs and symptoms of mental health issues, and protocols for responding to crisis situations involving members of the Armed Forces who may be at high risk for suicide. WE DO THIS..again Obama pick up the phone.


Utilize crisis response teams within units to prevent and respond to traumatic events. Such teams will consist of key personnel such as medical staff, chaplains, family support staff, and peers. WE DO THIS...PHONE


Provide post-deployment follow-up and assistance for family members and peers of members of the Armed Services on mental health problems, substance use, and financial and relationship difficulties, including information on resources to address these issues.

Provides resources to the Department of Defense to examine innovative and effective strategies to recruit qualified uniformed mental health professionals.
Provides resources to the Department of Defense to examine innovative and effective ways to fight the stigma associated with seeking mental health treatment

Sure go ahead..all for it.






Even though I'm against the war I think the gov. should do all it can for the benefit of the soldiers starting with better health care and available.

That's one problem I don't mind "throwing money at".

Colossus_500

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2008, 10:00:07 AM »
What an article.  A tour de force.  Thomas Sowell sounds like a snot-nosed punk in his tone and critique.  I'm glad to see he's changing the tone of political punditry.

Tools like Sowell make me sick.  "What has not been widely publicized is that this higher suicide rate is still not as high as the suicide rate among demographically comparable civilians."

 Awareness of suicide among Iraq and Afghanistan veterans was heightened earlier this year when the Army said its suicide rate in 2006 rose to 17.3 per 100,000 troops -- the highest level in 26 years of record-keeping.

After leaving the military, however, veterans appear to be at greater risk for suicide than those who didn't serve. Earlier this year, researchers at Portland State University in Oregon found male veterans were twice as likely to commit suicide as their civilian counterparts.
http://www.thehawkeye.com/print/MilitarySuicide_121407
 

This guy is such an indifferent horse's ass to our military people just so he can score some political points against Obama. 


Mental disorders are on the rise among Afghanistan, Iraq veterans
http://www.ptsdsupport.net/mental_disorders_riseing.html

As many as one out of four veterans of Afghanistan and Iraq treated at Veterans Affairs hospitals in the past 16 months were diagnosed with mental disorders, a number that has been steadily rising, according to a report in Thursday's New England Journal of Medicine.

I would imagine that the numbers are much higher had statistics been kept from WWI and WWII, but there's no proof since we've only been keeping suicide statistics since 1980. 

Decker

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2008, 10:07:47 AM »
I would imagine that the numbers are much higher had statistics been kept from WWI and WWII, but there's no proof since we've only been keeping suicide statistics since 1980. 
That would be a story if that information was suppressed.  But it isn't.

What makes it all the more sickening, is that Pres. Bush lied us into an unnecessary war.

These suicides and crack-ups did not have to happen.

No, that point is glossed over and the admonishment that we have 'move on' and try to win the war is usually offered.

I'm disappointed to see Sowell miss that angle completely.


Colossus_500

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Re: Memo to McCain - just stick to the issues and let Obama hang himself
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2008, 11:02:40 AM »
What an article.  A tour de force.  Thomas Sowell sounds like a snot-nosed punk in his tone and critique.  I'm glad to see he's changing the tone of political punditry.

Tools like Sowell make me sick.  "What has not been widely publicized is that this higher suicide rate is still not as high as the suicide rate among demographically comparable civilians."

 Awareness of suicide among Iraq and Afghanistan veterans was heightened earlier this year when the Army said its suicide rate in 2006 rose to 17.3 per 100,000 troops -- the highest level in 26 years of record-keeping.

After leaving the military, however, veterans appear to be at greater risk for suicide than those who didn't serve. Earlier this year, researchers at Portland State University in Oregon found male veterans were twice as likely to commit suicide as their civilian counterparts.



http://www.thehawkeye.com/print/MilitarySuicide_121407
 

This guy is such an indifferent horse's ass to our military people just so he can score some political points against Obama. 


Mental disorders are on the rise among Afghanistan, Iraq veterans
http://www.ptsdsupport.net/mental_disorders_riseing.html

As many as one out of four veterans of Afghanistan and Iraq treated at Veterans Affairs hospitals in the past 16 months were diagnosed with mental disorders, a number that has been steadily rising, according to a report in Thursday's New England Journal of Medicine.

Took me a while to find this.  I remember hearing about this piece some time ago.  I'm going to go back and read through all of the referenced material tonight when I get home.

G.I. Suicide and Cultural Suicide
November 16, 2007 - by Jules Crittenden
pajamasmedia.com

Since the dawn of time, human beings have been combat animals, engaged in defense of their own kind, engaged in war over resources, fighting day by day for survival. Living short, brutal lives in frequent, violent struggle.

To be a battle-tested warrior has been considered a necessary right of passage for men. To accomplish something in battle, to exert leadership and demonstrate courage, was to stand as an example. Songs would be sung about such a man.

There are still some vestiges of that. But the inspirational tales of great warriors are replaced by cautionary tales of victimhood.

Our war dead are called a waste by those who would lead us. Our returning soldiers are viewed as damaged goods, their accomplishments ignored. The holidays we dedicate to them have long been excuses for trips to the beach and the mall, ignored by the vast majority of our population. The dire threats to world peace our soldiers have combated, from communists to Muslim terrorists and would-be nuclear despots, are fabricated excuses to seize oil supplies, drive up corporate profits and undermine constitutional freedoms. War, even when it might be justified, produces unacceptable tragedy and debases us. Patriotic display is disconcerting. Our children are not encouraged to develop the strength and courage of warriors, are discouraged from playing at war, and efforts are made to keep recruiters away from them.

Here’s the latest thread in the pervasive new storyline:

War makes you suicidal.

[1] CBS, for whom Edward R. Murrow once broadcast from the rooftops of London, inspiring Americans who would soon find themselves called to war, posits a GI suicide epidemic. This is not CBS reporting on a scholarly study. It is CBS conducting its own study. Not surprisingly, while it makes a great gotcha, it is somewhat limited in its scope, and questionable in its findings:

CBS News went to the [2] Department of Veterans Affairs, where Dr. Ira Katz is head of mental health.

“There is no epidemic in suicide in the VA, but suicide is a major problem,” he said.

Why hasn’t the VA done a national study seeking national data on how many veterans have committed suicide in this country?

“That research is ongoing,” he said.

So CBS News [3] did an investigation - asking all 50 states for their suicide data, based on death records, for veterans and non-veterans, dating back to 1995. Forty-five states sent what turned out to be a mountain of information.

And what it revealed was stunning.

In 2005, for example, in just those 45 states, there were at least 6,256 suicides among those who served in the armed forces. That’s 120 each and every week, in just one year.

Dr. Steve Rathbun is the acting head of the Epidemiology and Biostatistics Department at the University of Georgia. CBS News asked him to run a detailed analysis of the raw numbers that we obtained from state authorities for 2004 and 2005.

It found that veterans were more than twice as likely to commit suicide in 2005 than non-vets. (Veterans committed suicide at the rate of between 18.7 to 20.8 per 100,000, compared to other Americans, who did so at the rate of 8.9 per 100,000.)

Some observers thought those numbers a little suspect. Here’s Michael Goldfarb at the [4] Weekly Standard:

When I first saw this story, I went and checked the ever reliable [5] Wikipedia for suicide rates-and as I expected, suicide rates for American men are only slightly less than the numbers CBS gave for veterans. Which I suspect could have a lot to do with the fact that veterans have a familiarity with violence and firearms that is slightly higher than average. But leave it to Bill Sweetman, who is more reliable, and on such matters more knowledgeable, than Wikipedia, to [6] break it down: “In the US, male veterans outnumber female veterans 13:1. Since four times as many males as women commit suicide in the general population, you’d expect the rate among veterans to be close to the rate among males - 17.6/100,000 per year in 2002 - and indeed it is, if the CBS raw numbers are correct.”

At first blush, it looked like [7] CBS had goofed. CBS’s [8] methodology statement indicates that gender differences were taken into account.

There are some things the CBS methodology doesn’t address.

For men in their mid-50s on up, military service was mandatory. How does that play out in overall numbers, and what might it say about the different populations that are being compared? The series tells us that numbers for younger veterans, 20-24 years old, are even higher than veterans overall, suggesting the “epidemic” is worsening in the current war on terror.

There is nothing about how any of these numbers have changed over time, from peacetime to wartime. In fact, despite collecting data for a 10-year period, CBS draws its conclusions from just two, 2004 and 2005. I wouldn’t mind a look at the last 65 years or so, to see how the number shifts, and whether there might be any correlation with the perceived worth of any given conflict, based on polling or media coverage. Is this an epidemic or a chronic condition?

Nor does CBS tell us how many of those veteran suicides are actual combat veterans. The second part CBS series also tells us that while veterans make up 11 percent of the population, they make up 25 percent of the nation’s homeless. In that case, lack of age, race, education, job history and other factors mean a lack of context to understand the disturbing statistic. It may not simply be their status as veterans.

CBS was offered but wasn’t particularly interested in active duty suicides, numbers that were [9] readily available but showed a counter-epidemic. If adjusted for gender, active duty suicide may actually stand well below civilian suicide rates. Numbers for the last 20 years show that from a high of 15 per 100,000 in 1995, they’ve trended downward, to about 9 per 100,000 in 2006. Despite this wretched war, the trauma and multiple extended deployments.

The overall number of veterans’ suicides, even at double, remains small as a percentage of the population, however frightening the word “epidemic” is and however disturbing and tragic each individual case may be. But these are interesting results. Hopefully some actual scientists are looking into the matter. The VA, as quoted by CBS, suggests that they have been.

CBS, relying on critics, creates the impression that the VA is responding inadequately to the mental health of needs of veterans. That could be. It is unclear to me whether some additional number of suicides as a result of extreme war experiences might be unpreventable, or whether some people might be unreachable. CBS doesn’t go into detail on screening and treatment offerings. I heard some veterans’ complain that those are inadequate. I’ve heard others say they got good treatment. This gets added in the second part part of the CBS series:

The VA recently responded to such criticism by opening a suicide prevention hotline, hiring thousands of new workers, including suicide-prevention coordinators at all its medical centers.

I hope the VA is in fact addressing these issues, and if it’s needed, then I hope the CBS effort leads to more support for the VA in Congress and in the White House.

Because war is stressful. And yes, war can make you crazy and suicidal.

CBS is not the only news organization in this time of war to be more interested in the damage war does, than the lives it may be saving and the good that might come as a result, however. Having accepted and promoted political claims that our wars are unnecessary, and that they are excessive and inhumanely executed, CBS is not unlike most of our major news organizations. They have devoted large amounts of time and space to PTSD and the difficulties returning soldiers face, reporting on those issues and others — physical war wounds, death and family stress — with a great deal more enthusiasm than they have shown for the liberation of 50 million people, the willingness of hundreds of thousands of young Americans to fight battles for the freedom of others and our national security, and their successes in combat operations.

The predominant storyline of war in our time has not been one of volunteers struggling and triumphing over adversity. It has been about victimhood, quagmires and failure. Whether the facts fit the description or not.

If you have been to war, then you know that you are undeniably changed and damaged by it. Images, obsessions and adrenaline rushes at odd times become a part of one’s life, along with barely controllable upwellings of emotion, shortness of temper, a tendency to speak one’s mind in ways that may be disturbing to others. For some people, it fades with time, for others it doesn’t.

As one friend who had seen heavy combat and struggled with it said, “We are the detritus of war.” That man, a veteran of heavy combat in Vietnam, credits the PTSD treatment he received at the VA with saving his life. Men walking around with wounds others can’t see. It’s not always so extreme, even for veterans of heavy combat. As another friend said, “There was life before, and life after. Not good, not bad, just different.”

Myself, after mild exposure to fire in a couple of warzones and moderate combat in Iraq that included death close at hand and a number of close calls, I came home with what I have considered a mild case. I’m lucky enough to have seen the intensity of death images and adrenaline rushes subside, though my wife tells me I’m a different person than I was before. It’s as though she’s had two marriages, she said, to two different people. I am grateful not to be damaged such that it might be unendurable. I consider it in fact normal, what I experienced in the last four years, a normal reaction to extreme events, exacerbated by the deep political divisions that developed and the disparagement of the war. PTSD experts will tell you the latter can be a significant factor.

Lost in these discussions of war and PTSD is the fact that trauma is the stuff of life. Millions upon millions of human beings have experienced it, adjusted to it and moved on. War, accidents, disease, crime, childbirth … the latter a terrifying and excruciatingly painful ordeal that up until recently carried a significant risk of death. That’s made me wonder about the resiliency of humans, and whether, just as I found to my surprise that I enjoyed combat and later missed it, the reaction after the fact is a normal process, part of something hardwired into us.

Absent until recently in this equation was the culture of victimhood, the glorification of traumatization, or any system of benefits that might make its indulgence desirable.

That’s what makes a new round of studies particularly interesting.

Some researchers are looking into the military records of Vietnam-era PTSD patients and finding some startling discrepancies. Many of those seeking treatment were not in heavy combat, or in some cases had not been in combat at all.

[10] This April 2006 article announces that studies are being conducted to look at the issue, because of a recent dramatic leap in PTSD claims … not among Iraq and Afghanistan vets but among Vietnam vets 40 years after the fact.

    How widespread is PTSD among Vietnam War veterans? Only 3.5 percent of soldiers reported combat stress reactions during the war, yet the National Vietnam Veterans Readjustment Survey in the mid-1980s found a lifetime incidence of 30.9 percent among men who had served in the war zone and an additional 22.5 percent reporting a subclinical variant, said Richard McNally, Ph.D., director of clinical training in the Department of Psychology at Harvard University. Only 15 percent of all troops sent to Vietnam were assigned to combat units, yet two or three times that percentage appear to have experienced PTSD at some point.

    Several hypotheses have been advanced to explain this apparent discrepancy, in addition to simple fabrication of war stories. Sampling errors or interviewer biases may account for some of the difference. Noncombat troops like medics or truck drivers might have been exposed to trauma. To some, mere deployment in a war zone might be considered stressful, even if not traumatic. Or there may be other reasons.

    “Perhaps they are imposing a trauma narrative on their lives, attributing their problems to military service,” said McNally. The definition of “trauma” has broadened over the years to include pre- and posttrauma factors and noncanonical stressors, from fender benders to normal childbirth.

    […] The current increase in disability claims may be due to chronic PTSD that has existed since the war or to delayed presentation after earlier symptoms, she said, but PTSD may also serve as a “comforting cultural narrative” for life failure, induced by a “victim culture” or a crutch for “folks who need a retirement plan.”

[11] This 2005 study found that only 41 percent of Vietnam-era veterans taken from a sample of people seeking outpatient care for PTSD had documentation of combat exposure, such as the Combat Infantryman Badge, Purple Heart or combat valor awards, while 32 percent were clerks, mechanics, etc., whose records indicated they served on large air bases and other rear-echelon locations.

[12] This study concludes that “PTSD and combat experience in Southeast Asia have not had a major impact on the socioeconomic status of veterans.”

That is not the impression you’ll get from the latest news reporting on the subject.

Theoretically, the CBS report of a GI suicide epidemic -with U.S. senators now prompted to react- should improve treatment and help make life better for returning war veterans. Whether it actually will is debatable: whether the senators will in fact do anything useful and if the veterans are stigmatized as they were in the post-Vietnam-era. And beyond that, if they are encouraged to see themselves as maladjusted. The news organizations, as they report on various problems homecoming vets face, purport to care about the vets. And maybe they actually do.

A deeper concern, in a world that shows no signs of becoming less dangerous, where Russia and China are both building their militaries and Iran seeks to dominate the Middle East with terrorism and nuclear weapons, is that powerful voices within our own society are actively seeking to disparage and discourage military service and any exercise of military force. It is not a last option. It is an option so constrained by demands of proof and fears of the damage that will be caused that it is in danger of ceasing to be an option.

More simply put, we’ve become too sophisticated now to fall for the stories of great leaders and heroes. The flaws and failures are what fascinate us. And as we seek to spare everyone from all harm, we may find ourselves incapable of preventing greater harm from falling.

Jules Crittenden blogs at [13] Forward Movement.

URL to article: http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/gi_suicides/

URLs in this post:
[1] CBS: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/13/cbsnews_investigates/main3496471.shtml
[2] Department of Veterans Affairs: http://www.va.gov/
[3] did an investigation: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/13/cbsnews_investigates/main3498625.shtml
[4] Weekly Standard: http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2007/11/cbs_lied_veterans_died.asp
[5] Wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_rates
[6] break it down: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript
&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-b
d3a-01329aef79a7Post%3a52fefb75-2af5-4c42-8a14-3860fe708e56


[7] CBS had goofed: http://www.julescrittenden.com/2007/11/14/suicidal-gis/
[8] methodology statement: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/13/cbsnews_investigates/main3498625.shtml
[9] readily available: http://northshorejournal.org/index.php/2007/11/deaths-in-the-military-in-pictures
[10] This April 2006 article: http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/7/13
[11] This 2005 study: http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/186/6/467
[12] This study: http://www.springerlink.com/content/x866607q65393640/
[13] Forward Movement: http://www.julescrittenden.com/