Author Topic: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security  (Read 2347 times)

Benny B

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Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« on: June 11, 2008, 04:22:53 PM »
On Tuesday, Sen. Kent Conrad revealed that Sen. Barack Obama is including "former top military leaders" among the approximately two dozen names currently rattling around in a not-so-short vice presidential short list.

Such figures don't come much more "top" in either political party than retired four-star General Wes Clark, the former Supreme Allied Commander Europe for NATO during the Kosovo War. After a late entry into the Democratic 2004 presidential race, in which he won the Oklahoma primary and finished second in three other contests, Clark turned himself into a popular surrogate on the stump for Democratic congressional candidates during the midterm elections.

Relatively new to partisan politics, he seems to have taken to the enterprise with gusto. As an early backer of Sen. Hillary Clinton, Clark traveled in the last year to Iowa, New Hampshire, Wisconsin, Ohio, Texas, Indiana and South Dakota. But even now that the spouse of his former Commander in Chief is out of the race, Clark isn't done for the season. In an email pitch to his nationwide network of supporters last week, Clark urged party unity and described the call to elect Obama as a "critical mission."

In a wide-ranging interview with The Huffington Post, Clark offered opinions on the current state of American foreign policy, the Democrats' emergence as a more "full-service" party on security issues, and -- lest anyone doubt his potential use as a running mate for Obama -- the shortcomings of Sen. John McCain.

"I know he's trying to get traction by seeking to play to what he thinks is his strong suit of national security," Clark said of McCain while speaking from his office in Little Rock, Arkansas. "The truth is that, in national security terms, he's largely untested and untried. He's never been responsible for policy formulation. He's never had leadership in a crisis, or in anything larger than his own element on an aircraft carrier or [in managing] his own congressional staff. It's not clear that this is going to be the strong suit that he thinks it is."

Resume aside, though, Clark also took issue with the Arizona Republican's instincts on national security. "McCain's weakness is that he's always been for the use of force, force and more force. In my experience, the only time to use force is as a last resort. ... When he talks about throwing Russia out of the G8 and makes ditties about bombing Iran, he betrays a disrespect for the office of the presidency."

* * *
Clark also said Democrats are making progress in becoming a "full-service party" that can compete on security concerns as well as domestic issues. "Republicans like to focus on the threat, on fear, on insecurities. It's what motivates their base," he said. "As Democrats, we focus on hope and possibilities in the future. So the two parties are asymmetrical. And because the two parties are different, it makes the national security [issue] play differently to both parties. But I think we have to point out the failures and shortcomings of the current approach. In the foreign policy arena, John McCain has pretty much bought the central thrust of the Bush administration's foreign policies: relying on threat and bluster [and] isolating people we don't agree with instead of engaging them."

Still, Clark says Democrats can't afford to be branded as unwilling to use force. "My take is that Senator Obama has been very clear ... As he said in his recent appearance before AIPAC, he is strongly committed to America's allies. And it would be a mistake for anyone to assume he won't use force when it's necessary and appropriate. ... I think it's a question of whether you believe all intercourse with an enemy must end in conflict or not."

Citing the issue of Iran's nuclear program, Clark suggested a prime window of opportunity may have been missed early in the Bush presidency, before the election of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. "I think Iran has come out of the Bush administration as a much stronger power," he said. "First of all, we eliminated the primary blocking force to their west in Iraq. Secondly, we have been ineffective in using the broader tools of U.S. diplomacy and moral suasion in the region -- and that's allowed Iran to capture Hamas, displace Fatah and strengthen [its] grip on Hezbollah. ... Without effective diplomatic engagement of Iran, we've allowed them to pursue a nuclear program that is likely aimed at achieving nuclear weapons. But we've refused to sit down and talk to them about it. ... I still favor an effort to engage Iran, but the clock is ticking on their probable nuclear program. This makes everything much more complicated and difficult now.

"I think that there was a window [for diplomacy]. Maybe two or three windows of opportunity. They might or might not have been fruitful. There are never any guarantees with diplomacy. But there are never any guarantees with force, either. John McCain should know that. He and I, along with many others, were caught up in an inconclusive war in southeast Asia."

* * *
Still, for all of Clark's authority on defense issues and his willingness to go after McCain, some observers remain skeptical of his potential usefulness to Obama in the vice presidential slot. An unsteady first impression with the press in 2003 provided enough fodder for doubts that linger to this day regarding Clark's effectiveness as a campaigner.

It's clear that the former general, who studiously avoids any chatter about the current veepstakes, is keen to note his "learning curve" as a politician and his work ethic as a surrogate, citing the dozens of congressional candidates who requested his assistance in 2006. A source at the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee confirmed that work ethic, saying that Clark has done everything that's been asked of him -- from voicing robo-calls to mining his email list for donations to making those personal appearances. "I don't want to brag on myself," Clark said, "but we got into places where no other Democratic spokesmen were invited."

Clark also suggested those travels have been good for his own political education. "You have to learn how to run for elective office, no matter where you've had responsible positions before. You have to learn how to hit the pitch. I think I had a pretty good learning curve in my run for office. By the time I was campaigning in January, I was doing very well. But you don't do it overnight."

When asked, Clark reports a feeling of contentment with his work in the private sector. Joined with the opportunity to comment on current affairs, he rightly deems it "a full life." But even Clark admits he doesn't have everything. "I miss my friends in the military. You know, the camaraderie," he said.

Perhaps he'll have the opportunity to reenlist for one more campaign.

!

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2008, 04:25:51 PM »
About Mccain:
"I know he's trying to get traction by seeking to play to what he thinks is his strong suit of national security," Clark said of McCain while speaking from his office in Little Rock, Arkansas. "The truth is that, in national security terms, he's largely untested and untried. He's never been responsible for policy formulation. He's never had leadership in a crisis, or in anything larger than his own element on an aircraft carrier or [in managing] his own congressional staff. It's not clear that this is going to be the strong suit that he thinks it is."


Is this true?

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2008, 04:37:33 PM »
Clark..Wes Clark......ok...may i remind u


On June 12, 1999, in the immediate aftermath of NATO's air war against Yugoslavia, a small contingent of Russian troops dashed to occupy the Pristina airfield in Kosovo. Clark was so anxious to stop the Russians that he ordered an airborne assault to confront these units--an order which could have unleashed the most frightening showdown with Moscow since the end of the Cold War. Hyperbole? You can decide. But British General Michael Jackson, the three-star general and commander of K-FOR, the international force organized and commanded by NATO to enforce an agreement in Kosovo, told Clark: "Sir, I'm not starting world war three for you," when refusing to accept his order to prevent Russian forces from taking over the airport. (Jackson was rightly worried that any precipitous NATO action could risk a confrontation with a nuclear- armed Russia and upset the NATO-led peacekeeping plan just getting underway with the withdrawal of Serbian forces from Kosovo.)

I was there, this guy is an idiot. He was forced to retire.

L

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2008, 04:38:12 PM »
After being rebuffed by Jackson, Clark, according to various media reports at the time, then ordered Admiral James Ellis, the American in charge of NATO's southern command, to use Apache helicopters to occupy the airfield. Ellis didn't comply--replying that British General Jackson would oppose such a move. Had Clark's orders been followed, the subsequent NATO- negotiated compromise with the Russians--a positive element in the roller- coaster relationship between Moscow and Washington, which eventually incorporated Russian troops into peacekeeping operations--might well have been undermined.



In the end, Russian reinforcements were stopped when Washington persuaded Hungary, a new NATO member, to refuse to allow Russian aircraft to fly over its territory. Meanwhile, Jackson was appealing to senior British authorities, who persuaded Clinton Administration officials--some of whom had previously favored occupying the airport--to drop support for Clark's hotheaded plan. As a result, when Clark appealed to Washington, he was rebuffed at the highest levels. His virtually unprecedented showdown with a subordinate subsequently prompted hearings by the Armed Forces Services Committee, which raised sharp questions about NATO's chain of command.



As a Guardian article said at the time, "The episode triggers reminscences of the Korean War. Then, General Douglas MacArthur, commander of the UN force, wanted to invade, even nuke, China, until he was brought to heel by President Truman." Of course, the comparison is inexact. The stakes were not as high in the Balkans, but Clark's hip-shooting willingness to engage Russian troops in a risky military showdown at the end of the war is instructive nonetheless.



Indeed, it is believed in military circles that Clark's Pristina incident was the final straw that led the Pentagon to relieve him of his duties (actually retire him earlier). Clark had also angered the Pentagon brass--and Secretary of Defense William Cohen in particular--with his numerous media appearances and repeated public requests for more weapons and for more freedom to wage the Kosovo war the way he wanted (with ground troops). At one point, according to media reports, Defense Secretary Cohen, through Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Hugh Shelton, told Clark to "get your fucking face off of TV."

L

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2008, 04:38:51 PM »
At the beginning of the Kosovo conflict, CounterPunch delved into the military career of General Wesley Clark and discovered that his meteoric rise through the ranks derived from the successful manipulation of appearances: faking the results of combat exercises, greasing to superiors and other practices common to the general officer corps. We correctly predicted that the unspinnable realities of a real war would cause him to become unhinged. Given that Clark attempted to bomb the CNN bureau in Belgrade and ordered the British General Michael Jackson to engage Russian troops in combat at the end of the war, we feel events amply vindicated our forecast.

"With the end of hostilities it has become clear even to Clark that most people, apart from some fanatical members of the war party in the White House and State Department, consider the general, as one Pentagon official puts it, 'a horse's ass.' Defense Secretary William Cohen is known to loathe him, and has seen to it that the Hammer of the Serbs will be relieved of the Nato command two months early."

This is the guy who received the Kosovo Campaign Medal after having been granted a waiver, although according to an article in Stars and Stripes (European addition), no one seems to know who granted the waiver in time for the general to get the first medal awarded. Even though he led the international alliance in its 78-day blitz against Yugoslavia, the waiver was necessary because General Clark's service did not meet the criteria for the award which required service in the actual theater of operation. It appears that Clark made no effort to secure similar waivers for the thousands of service personnel who supported the effort from bases outside the combat zone.

On 17 July 2001, General Wesley Clark was confronted in an often heated exchange by his critics at Border's book store where the general was promoting his book, Waging Modern War. Although one of the axioms of Clark's book is that, "A Political Problem Cannot be Solved by Military Force," what he practiced and advocated in Kosovo was just the opposite. When confronted with questions about the misuse of air power and grossly exaggerating the results as exposed in a Newsweek article titled Kosovo Cover-Up of 15 May 2000, targeting civilian targets as stated by Sen. Joe Lieberman, and consorting with KLA terrorists such as Hashim Thaci and Agim Ceku, General Clark's replies were always the same: the questioner was wrong, Sen. Lieberman was wrong, and Newsweek was wrong. "I went to the presentation very much opposed to everything Clark stood for, but it wasn't until I heard him speak and answer questions that I realized how dangerous a man like this is," writes Col. George Jatras, USAF (Ret).

'THE GUY WHO ALMOST STARTED WORLD WAR III'

In Waging Modern War, General Clark wrote about his fury upon learning that Russian peacekeepers had entered the airport at Pristina, Kosovo, before British or American forces. In the article "The guy who almost started World War III," (Aug. 3, 1999), The Guardian (U.K.) wrote, "No sooner are we told by Britain's top generals that the Russians played a crucial role in ending the West's war against Yugoslavia than we learn that if NATO's supreme commander, the American General Wesley Clark, had had his way, British paratroopers would have stormed Pristina airport, threatening to unleash the most frightening crisis with Moscow since the end of the Cold War."

"I'm not going to start the third world war for you," General Sir Mike Jackson, commander of the international KFOR peacekeeping force, is reported to have told Gen. Clark when he refused to accept an order to send assault troops to prevent Russian troops from taking over the airfield of Kosovo's provincial capital. The Times of London reported on 23 May 2001 in an article titled, "Kosovo clash of allied generals," that "General Sir Michael Jackson [was] told that he would have to resign if he refused to obey an order by the American commander of Nato's forces during the Kosovo war to stop the Russians from seizing control of Pristina airport in June 1999."

If General Clark had had his way, we might have gone to war with Russia, or at least resurrected vestiges of the Cold War and we certainly would have had hundreds if not thousands of casualties in an ill-conceived ground war

In his article titled, "A Long, Tough Job," which appeared in the Washington Post on 14 September, Clark writes, "And the American public will have to grasp and appreciate a new approach to warfare. Our objective should be neither revenge nor retaliation, though we will achieve both. Rather, we must systematically target and destroy the complex, interlocking network of international terrorism. The aim should be to attack not buildings and facilities but the people who have masterminded, coordinated, supported and executed these and other terrorist attacks.

"Our methods should rely first on domestic and international law, and the support and active participation of our friends and allies around the globe. Evidence must be collected, networks uncovered and a faceless threat given shape and identity."

"Rely on international law"? Clinton and his gangsters broke every international law on the books regarding Yugoslavia. "Evidence must be collected?" Evidence of what? The Serbs certainly did not have weapons of mass destruction; nor did they attack us first; nor were they ever a threat to us. His words ring hollow.

You can read "Wes" Clark's letter to the National Albanian American Council of 1 November 2002, in which he says, "Let's stay in touch." For an American general who was supposed to be impartial in a civil war, it is no secret that Clark is the Albanian lobby's fair-haired boy. And why not? He delivered Kosovo to them.

General Clark brags about the fact that not one solder was killed under his command. Even though the Serbs had every opportunity to kill American soldiers, I contend that the Serbs did not want Americans to die at their hands. This was illustrated when Sgt. Christopher Stone of Smiths Creek, Michigan, upon his release, left a note to his prison guards thanking them for treating him with "dignity and respect." The Pentagon declined to release a copy of Stone's note, but a copy was made available to The Associated Press (5 May 1999). The note ended with "Thank you, you are very kind" and "God help you."

Col. David Hackworth, in his 1999 commentary Defending America, wrote of Clark: Known by those who've served with him as the Ultimate Perfumed Prince, he's far more comfortable in a drawing room discussing political theories than hunkering down in the trenches where bullets fly and soldiers die.

Col. Jatras writes that "General Clark is the kind of general we saw too often during the Vietnam War and hoped never to see again in a position of responsibility for the lives of our GIs and the security of our nation. That it happened once again we can thank that other Rhodes scholar from Arkansas."

In this writer's judgement, what this guy is positioning himself for is the VP slot with Hillary running for President. It would be a marriage made in Hell...a Hell for all of us.

Knowing all the above, why would anyone want as president or VP a guy who was willing to start World War III for the sake of his own ego and self-importance?

L

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2008, 04:41:44 PM »
Whoa.   :o  You put that baggage together with the fact he really doesn't have much of a public personality and he doesn't sound so good as a VP candidate anymore.

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2008, 04:45:12 PM »
How this guy made it to 4 stars....nobody liked him and he was a major kiss ass. Nobody liked Patton but he kicked ass....big difference.
L

youandme

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2008, 07:24:33 PM »
this Clark guy is a disgrace to the stars

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2008, 07:49:54 PM »
Clark..Wes Clark......ok...may i remind u


On June 12, 1999, in the immediate aftermath of NATO's air war against Yugoslavia, a small contingent of Russian troops dashed to occupy the Pristina airfield in Kosovo. Clark was so anxious to stop the Russians that he ordered an airborne assault to confront these units--an order which could have unleashed the most frightening showdown with Moscow since the end of the Cold War. Hyperbole? You can decide. But British General Michael Jackson, the three-star general and commander of K-FOR, the international force organized and commanded by NATO to enforce an agreement in Kosovo, told Clark: "Sir, I'm not starting world war three for you," when refusing to accept his order to prevent Russian forces from taking over the airport. (Jackson was rightly worried that any precipitous NATO action could risk a confrontation with a nuclear- armed Russia and upset the NATO-led peacekeeping plan just getting underway with the withdrawal of Serbian forces from Kosovo.)

I was there, this guy is an idiot. He was forced to retire.



Sounds like Clark was the only person who wasn't a pussy.  Where were the war mongers then?   ;D  (just kidding HH6 )

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2008, 07:51:59 PM »
Clark wanted to kick some ass.  The others wanted to appease Russia.

CARTEL

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2008, 09:31:14 PM »
this Clark guy is a disgrace to the stars

Yes he is.

Benny B

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2008, 09:47:12 PM »
How this guy made it to 4 stars....nobody liked him and he was a major kiss ass. Nobody liked Patton but he kicked ass....big difference.
lol
You are a no-nothing grunt who obeys orders ("Yes, sir!") and Clark is a four star general who gives orders.  ;)

Next!
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CARTEL

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2008, 10:16:57 PM »
lol
You are a no-nothing grunt who obeys orders ("Yes, sir!") and Clark is a four star general who gives orders.  ;)

Next!

Generals are NOTHING without the Grunts.

Especially in this day and age.

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2008, 10:24:01 PM »
lol
You are a no-nothing grunt who obeys orders ("Yes, sir!") and Clark is a four star general who gives orders.  ;)

Next!

{OUCH}!  :'(

He's willing to risk his life for the benefit of others.
Whether through valour or stupidity, ...let's show him a bit of respect.  (just a teensy little bit tho)  ;)
w

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2008, 11:14:04 PM »
How this guy made it to 4 stars....nobody liked him and he was a major kiss ass. Nobody liked Patton but he kicked ass....big difference.
Class of 66 west point I know him.  My dad was class of 66 also: they knew each other.  He has really changed after he retired.  Still a smart ass guy
Quote
Clark's military career began July 2, 1962 when he entered the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York. Clark later said an important influence on his view of the military came from Douglas MacArthur's famous "Duty, honor, country" speech given to the class of 1962, only months before Clark entered West Point. A recording of the speech was played for Clark's class when they first arrived.[8][17]

Clark sat in the front in many of his classes, a position held by the highest performer in class. Clark participated heavily in debate, was consistently within the top 5% of his class as a whole (earning him a "Distinguished Cadet" patch on his uniform), and ultimately graduated as valedictorian of West Point
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark#Early_life_and_education

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2008, 11:28:54 PM »
lol
You are a no-nothing grunt who obeys orders ("Yes, sir!") and Clark is a four star general who gives orders.  ;)

Next!

Wrong.  He's an officer and outranks about 90 percent of the Army. 

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2008, 01:33:33 AM »
Wrong.  He's an officer and outranks about 90 percent of the Army. 

Maybe he should change deodorants? Secret! Even though it's made for a woman, ...it's strong enough for a man  ;D
w

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2008, 05:21:23 AM »
Wrong.  He's an officer and outranks about 90 percent of the Army. 

True, and he's got to be a 99.999999% yes man to move higher up the ladder.

headhuntersix

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2008, 06:55:53 AM »
Clark was an idiot...sorry Benny. I'm no longer a "grunt' but no offense taken. I was in there when this was going on. We were in no way privy to any of those conversations...and as an Armor LT I would have been happy to see what my m1A1 could have done against Russian t-72's..but thats beside the point. There are plenty of 4 star's running around to get good advice from, this guy was an ass kisser and did alot of dumb shit.
L

youandme

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2008, 07:03:09 AM »
Clark wanted to kick some ass.  The others wanted to appease Russia.

Big difference between kicking some ass and putting American men and women in harms way

headhuntersix

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2008, 07:09:36 AM »
Appease the Russians.....we were'nt there to fight the damm Russians. I can imagine the shock to the American people. We went into help the douchebag Muslims and support the worthless UN, next thing u know some cowboy American General is fighting over an airport.
L

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2008, 07:28:29 AM »
You guys are so fucking funny.  If the vet is a dem, it's cool to piss all over his service.  But if the vet is a republican, respect ::)

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2008, 07:29:22 AM »
Big difference between kicking some ass and putting American men and women in harms way

Anytime you don't put 1500 ICBMs into a country's capital, you are appeasing them






:)

headhuntersix

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2008, 07:31:28 AM »
You guys are so fucking funny.  If the vet is a dem, it's cool to piss all over his service.  But if the vet is a republican, respect ::)

Hugo...he sucks. He's not a Lib so I'm not really worried about him. But he did all of the above, I know people who had to work for him, and he almost got us into a war with Russia for no reason at all.
L

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Re: Clark: McCain "Untried and Untested" on National Security
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2008, 07:35:12 AM »
Hugo...he sucks. He's not a Lib so I'm not really worried about him. But he did all of the above, I know people who had to work for him, and he almost got us into a war with Russia for no reason at all.

Russia has oil, right?

We got into a war with iraq for no reason at all.  (After UN inspections, everyone knew there was no WMD)