Author Topic: Fatburners over 40 years old  (Read 2166 times)

MassAtAllCosts

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Fatburners over 40 years old
« on: June 12, 2008, 03:14:10 PM »
Do you think fat burners are risky to take as you get in your 40's. Do they overtax your heart too much at this age?

furn

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2008, 03:20:01 PM »
In my opinion, Fat burner offer little if any benefit for "real fat lost".  It is always written on the bottle that the effect is better if used with proper nutrition and exercice...so here's the source of fat loss.

But to answer to your question, all depend which kind of fat burner do you buy?  And are you in shape or not?  If yes, I don't think it bother even if your over 40.

candidizzle

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2008, 03:22:43 PM »
alot of things can really help the fat burning process.... any kind of stimulant is going to raise bmr...  but those arent going to be as safe healthy and are going to push you towards muscle catabolism

things like fish oil, sesamine, EGCG, yohimbine, GREEN VEGGIES  ;)

other than that small protions ffrequent meals, most calories coming from protein and do your cardio and weigth training...

DK II

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2008, 01:59:12 AM »
Problem with fatburners is that most people who use them are too fat and eat like shit.

that's where the health problems come from in the first place. If you're overweight and eat pizza and burgers all day, your heart has already enough work and the last thing you need is a handfull of stimulants to keep you going...

If you're over 40, i would say stay with the good stuff like green tea, sesamin, omega 3, yerba mate, capsaicin, L-Tyrosine and stay away from stimulants like ephedrine, synephrine, yohimbine and so on.

candidizzle

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2008, 08:31:15 AM »
dk yohimbine is a stimulant ?

Princess L

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2008, 09:10:34 AM »
Problem with fatburners is that most people who use them are too fat and eat like shit.

that's where the health problems come from in the first place. If you're overweight and eat pizza and burgers all day, your heart has already enough work and the last thing you need is a handfull of stimulants to keep you going...


So true.

Leave it to DK to tell it like it is  ;D


dk yohimbine is a stimulant ?

Absolutely!
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MassAtAllCosts

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2008, 04:04:32 PM »
Do these small doses of caffiene in these fat burners really cause your heart to work that much more, i mean ,never heard of people dieing from taking fatburners before, dont they just amp up your BMR alittle( if takin' in reasonable doses)

candidizzle

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2008, 05:15:51 PM »
Do these small doses of caffiene in these fat burners really cause your heart to work that much more, i mean ,never heard of people dieing from taking fatburners before, dont they just amp up your BMR alittle( if takin' in reasonable doses)
well certain "fat burners" have actually very large doses of caffiene...forexample, hydroxy cut has 300mg caffiene per serving

MassAtAllCosts

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2008, 06:34:58 AM »
well, lets say u use 1 pill instead of the 3 suggested...only 100 mg. caffeine, thats not so bad is it, or is it not enough to get any benefit

candidizzle

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2008, 09:03:52 AM »
well, lets say u use 1 pill instead of the 3 suggested...only 100 mg. caffeine, thats not so bad is it, or is it not enough to get any benefit
as far as i know the difference is actually goin to be insignificent between the two as far as fat burning goes... my understanding of caffiene is that it just sort of directs your body towards fat stores; because it requires you to break down fat in order to metabolize it...

if i were you i would go with some extra strength egcg , and dose that at about 1 full gram egcg..that should be about 150mg caffiene too...

Cindy

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2008, 08:19:33 PM »

Another point is these fatburners dehydrate you. If you do supplement with them its really important to drink a lot of water. I have a friend that almost passed out and blamed it on her fatburner. She was running in the hot sun, had taken ripped fuel (back in the day), drank Cuban coffee and had no additional water all day.

O

MassAtAllCosts

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2008, 05:37:05 PM »
i agree, i was taking fat burners along with a water shed product to get rid of water under the skin...started cramping and could quench my thirst no matter what

darksol

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2008, 11:45:15 AM »
All Fat Burners do is get you off your ASS.  The benefits are in the change of activity and appatite. That is what leads to fat loss.  So a better question would be, Will Fat Burners get a 40 year old off their ASS. And the answer is yes.

Cindy

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2008, 07:59:51 PM »
All Fat Burners do is get you off your ASS.  The benefits are in the change of activity and appatite. That is what leads to fat loss.  So a better question would be, Will Fat Burners get a 40 year old off their ASS. And the answer is yes.

 ;D And then when it wears off, you will be back on your ass (harder than before)
O

MassAtAllCosts

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2008, 08:15:59 PM »
No need to" get me off my ass "dude, been working out for 25 years now with never more than 2 consecutive days misses without a workout...if anything i have to force myself to sit on my ass.

darksol

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2008, 08:30:14 PM »
Trust me on this.
I don't care how active you think you are now.  When you are on a Real Fat Burner ( with Ephedra ),
You will be wanting to hit the gym, Clean the House, Wash your Car.  Dig a Pool, Stain the Fence, Pull Weeks from your Flower Beds.  Mow your Lawn, Mow your Neighbors Lawn, and then offer to wash his car too.  You will get more done in 8 hours then you got done all week. 

Then of course you come down off your high. and Life Sucks.  The High Definately has an equal Low.

No need to" get me off my ass "dude, been working out for 25 years now with never more than 2 consecutive days misses without a workout...if anything i have to force myself to sit on my ass.

MassAtAllCosts

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2008, 05:31:01 AM »
i did take ephedra when it was in all the fat burners like ripped fuel and the like, and i remember bouncing off the walls, sweating constantly and going 100 miles an hour...and then i crashed..didnt like the extreme highs and lows.

DK II

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2008, 05:49:08 AM »
i did take ephedra when it was in all the fat burners like ripped fuel and the like, and i remember bouncing off the walls, sweating constantly and going 100 miles an hour...and then i crashed..didnt like the extreme highs and lows.

If you want fat burners, stay with green tea extract, L-Tyrosine, guarana and fish oil. I also hear sesamine constantly, but haven't tried it myself.

Princess L

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2008, 01:08:56 PM »
When you are on a Real Fat Burner ( with Ephedra ),
You will be wanting to  Clean the House, Wash your Car.  Dig a Pool, Stain the Fence, Pull Weeks from your Flower Beds.  Mow your Lawn, Mow your Neighbors Lawn, and then offer to wash his car too. 


Tell ya what.  I'll supply the stack and you come over and take care of all that stuff  ;D
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John O

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2008, 04:34:22 PM »
HAHAHAHAHAHA ;D
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Necrosis

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2008, 06:39:04 PM »
Alright as everyone knows im a big fan of sesamin and forskolin for fat loss, so i will post some info why.

Dietary sesamin and docosahexaenoic and eicosapentaenoic acids synergistically increase the gene expression of enzymes involved in hepatic peroxisomal fatty acid oxidation in rats.Arachchige PG, Takahashi Y, Ide T.
Laboratory of Nutritional Biochemistry, National Food Research Institute, Tsukuba 305-8642, Japan.

The interaction of sesamin, one of the most abundant lignans in sesame seed, and highly purified docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) or eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) in the form of ethyl ester in affecting hepatic fatty acid oxidation was examined in rats. In the first experiment, 3 groups of rats were fed with purified experimental diets free of n-3 fatty acid ethyl ester and containing 0%, 0.2%, and 0.4% sesamin (1:1 mixture of sesamin and episesamin), and 2 groups of animals were fed with a 2% DHA ethyl ester diet containing either 0% or 0.2% sesamin. In the second trial, 4 groups of rats were fed with either a 0% or a 2% EPA ethyl ester diet containing 0% or 0.2% sesamin. After 15 days of feeding, DHA and EPA ethyl esters added to a sesamin-free diet little affected the activity and messenger RNA (mRNA) levels of various enzymes involved in fatty acid oxidation. Sesamin increased the activity levels of various hepatic enzymes involved in fatty acid oxidation irrespective of the presence or absence of n-3 fatty acid ethyl ester in diets. However, the diet containing sesamin and DHA or EPA ethyl ester in combination increased many of these parameters synergistically. In particular, the peroxisomal palmitoyl-coenzyme A oxidation rate and acyl-coenzyme A oxidase activity level were much higher in rats fed with sesamin and DHA or EPA in combination than in animals fed with a diet free of n-3 fatty acid ethyl ester and containing sesamin. Analyses of mRNA levels revealed that a diet simultaneously containing sesamin and n-3 fatty acid ethyl ester increased the gene expression of various enzymes involved in peroxisomal fatty acid oxidation in a synergistic manner. However, the combination of sesamin and n-3 fatty acid ethyl esters was ineffective in causing a synergistic increase in mRNA levels of enzymes of mitochondrial fatty acid oxidation, microsomal cytochrome P-450 IV A1, and cytosolic liver-type fatty acid-binding protein. It was concluded that sesamin and DHA or EPA ethyl ester synergistically increased hepatic fatty acid oxidation primarily through up-regulation of the gene expression of peroxisomal fatty acid oxidation enzymes. The results essentially reproduced those observed in our previous study with a diet containing both fish oil and sesamin despite the fact that DHA and EPA ethyl esters were much less effective than fish oil in increasing hepatic fatty acid oxidation.


the short and sweet here is that sesamin does what fish oil does, that is increase fat burning enzymes called PPAR alpha only to a higher degree and also works synergistically with fish oil to do this, win win situation.

1: Metabolism. 1999 Oct;48(10):1303-13. Links
Sesamin, a sesame lignan, is a potent inducer of hepatic fatty acid oxidation in the rat.Ashakumary L, Rouyer I, Takahashi Y, Ide T, Fukuda N, Aoyama T, Hashimoto T, Mizugaki M, Sugano M.
Laboratory of Nutrition Biochemistry, National Food Research Institute, Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, Tsukuba, Japan.

The effects of sesamin, one of the most abundant lignans in sesame seed, on hepatic fatty acid oxidation were examined in rats that were fed experimental diets containing various amounts (0%, 0.1%, 0.2%, and 0.5%) of sesamin (a 1:1 mixture of sesamin and episesamin) for 15 days. Dietary sesamin dose-dependently increased both mitochondrial and peroxisomal palmitoyl-coenzyme A (CoA) oxidation rates. Mitochondrial activity almost doubled in rats on the 0.5% sesamin diet. Peroxisomal activity increased more than 10-fold in rats fed a 0.5% sesamin diet in relation to rats on the sesamin-free diet. Dietary sesamin greatly increased the hepatic activity of fatty acid oxidation enzymes, including carnitine palmitoyltransferase, acyl-CoA dehydrogenase, acyl-CoA oxidase, 3-hydroxyacyl-CoA dehydrogenase, enoyl-CoA hydratase, and 3-ketoacyl-CoA thiolase. Dietary sesamin also increased the activity of 2,4-dienoyl-CoA reductase and delta3,delta2-enoyl-CoA isomerase, enzymes involved in the auxiliary pathway for beta-oxidation of unsaturated fatty acids dose-dependently. Examination of hepatic mRNA levels using specific cDNA probes showed a sesamin-induced increase in the gene expression of mitochondrial and peroxisomal fatty acid oxidation enzymes. Among these various enzymes, peroxisomal acyl-CoA oxidase and bifunctional enzyme gene expression were affected most by dietary sesamin (15- and 50-fold increase by the 0.5% dietary level). Sesamin-induced alterations in the activity and gene expression of carnitine palmitoyltransferase I and acyl-CoA oxidase were in parallel with changes in the mitochondrial and peroxisomal palmitoyl-CoA oxidation rate, respectively. In contrast, dietary sesamin decreased the hepatic activity and mRNA abundance of fatty acid synthase and pyruvate kinase, the lipogenic enzymes. However, this lignan increased the activity and gene expression of malic enzyme, another lipogenic enzyme. An alteration in hepatic fatty acid metabolism may therefore account for the serum lipid-lowering effect of sesamin in the rat.

here we see another good thing sesamin does which is inhibit most lipogenic (fat storing) enzymes

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/beast21.htm

an article that covers some of the topics, and is worth a read to get the basic gist of it.

write-up on forskolin, i was going to post abstracts but this writeup is from a good company which outline its other benefits people should know about, for the record it is working great on my asthma.

http://www.thorne.com/media/ColeusMono.pdf

the short and sweet, it increase a second messenger cAMP which is involved in a host of biological activities, one being lipolysis(fat loss), while simultaneously stimulating thyroid secretion, increases TSH from the ant pituatary which increase t3/t4=more fat loss

so for the original question i would suggest taking forskolin, fish oil, sesamin, l-tyrosine,rasberry ketones, Ecgc and possibly some items for cortisol reduction since you want to avoid stims. Namely phosphotidylserine and cissus quadrangularis along with 6 grams of daily vitamin c, this would be a nice overall stack.

mild stimulants for the record like low dose caffeine will do you no harm and i would argue are healthy wrt to keeping dopaminergic neurons healthy, ie staving off parkisons and alzheimers. However, i would suggest coffee insted of caffeine as it disrupts sleep architecture less, has potent antioxidants which will help with fat loss and a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (a and b) called beta carboline which will elevate your mood.

hope that helps son.

benchmstr

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2008, 07:41:56 PM »
Do you think fat burners are risky to take as you get in your 40's. Do they overtax your heart too much at this age?
why does it matter,if you are over 40 your life is over.you have nothing left to prove.

bench

darksol

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2008, 07:57:07 PM »
If you have a bottle of the Original Xenadrine RFA-1, we might have to talk.  ;D

Tell ya what.  I'll supply the stack and you come over and take care of all that stuff  ;D

Necrosis

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2008, 08:02:27 PM »
If you have a bottle of the Original Xenadrine RFA-1, we might have to talk.  ;D


i got um :D

Princess L

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Re: Fatburners over 40 years old
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2008, 08:09:44 PM »
i got um :D

Who's your buddy?  Who's your pal?  ;D
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